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ProVobis
Guest
Wouldn’t that be the ultimate irony.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
What “traditionalists” call modernism and what the Church calls modernism are two seperate and distinct things.
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otjm
Guest
World wide, the OF is bout 99.6% of the Masses said; the EF amounts to about .4%. It may be your fervent hope and wish that the OF disappear; the reality is something different. One does not have to throw any stones at all. It is a simple fact that the EF does not exist in significant numbers world wide. Undoubtedly and with no question, some of that is due to recalcitrant bishops. And undoubtedly some of it is due to the few number of priests trained in the rubrics of the EF. But even where it has come in favorably (e.g. Chicgo Archdiocese has 12 parishes) it is only a small percentage (there, less than 4% of all parishes). At that rate of growth, maybe a century from now; or maybe more.The first English OF will be disappearing soon due mostly to lack of interest, although the official Vatican line is that it wants to be more faithful to the Latin by replacing it. But throw stones at me if you want, but we all know darn well that if you had taken away the communion and the obligation, the English NO would have disappeared a long time ago. That’s probably why they’re downplaying grave sins and pushing communion so hard. The NO simply can’t stand on its own merits. No wonder, it’s all about a meal to most.
The vast number of people under 45 have no experience of the EF whatsoever; and odds are the vast majority of them have not even heard of it. That in and of itself would indicate that there is a tremendous amount of work to do before there will be any significant changes. Rome has no reason to change things in any significant way (as in, quickly or abruptly) in spite of the convictions of those who prefer the EF. Rome simply does not move quickly on most matters, and has a 2000 year history of not doing so.
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Lormar
Guest
No. That is not correct.
What I am saying is that you denigrate and demean traditionals, not the EF. I did not say that you are worse. I said you are just as bad.
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At_Trent
Guest
Certainly not in a liberal diocese jaded by the bad fruits
That’s why I propose the new priests be instructed to pray the EF so over time Roman Catholicism will be practice once again by the majority.You see, an orthodox Catholic can attend the NO without worry because he/she understands and recognizes error and novelty. But those who know no better are being cheated of what they should be handed.
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At_Trent
Guest
Exactly why all of our newly ordained priests should pray the EF exclusively, to speed the process of returning to the Practice of Roman Catholicism. Let those priests who don’t want, or can’t pray the EF carry on until they retire. That way, the OF flock will not have their Mass jerked out from under them as they did with the EF.
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At_Trent
Guest
You are jaded to the core friend…’
Given that Mass attendance is a matter of salvation, I doubt that the EF would have done any better had it been removed. This is one of the more…interesting assertions I’ve heard made, though every assertion you make, ProVobis, gives me greater hope for that which you inveigh against.
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Mrs_Sally
Guest
Be part of the solution. Teach CCD at your local parish. Buy Rosetta Stone Latin for your priest. And above all pray, pray, pray.
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Califman831
Guest
yes, look how well modernists advocate traditional vocations. Its getting to be a ghost town in the seminaries and convents.
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At_Trent
Guest
Yes. Used to be a Catholic would embrace Martyrdom. Now most are afraid of what people think of them
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At_Trent
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SGT_ROCK_33
Guest
Fortunately, we belong to a Latin Mass parish and our Priest expects the parents to prepare their children for the sacraments, which is how it should be in my opinion. As my wife and I still have 7 kids still living at home, I feel that my greater responsibility is to ensure that they have the faith, first and foremost. Maybe when they have all left I will have the necessary time to help advance the fundamentals of our beautiful faith, but until then, I have a responsibility to focus on their souls.
I agree…Pray, pray, and pray some more, all we can do is benefit from this.
God Bless
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PJM
Guest
For God NOTHING is IMPOPSSIBLE.
But it has to start with TRULY CATHOLIC BISHOPS!
Remember for God, time does NOT exit. So in God’s time, with sufficient prayer an sacrifice; God’s church shall once again become truly Catholic.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
The Church is incapable of promulgating to the faithful any discipline that contains error. You simply do not know what you are talking about. The OF does what the Church professes that it does, ie, that it is a propitiatory sacrifice. It contains no error.Certainly not in a liberal diocese jaded by the bad fruits
You see, an orthodox Catholic can attend the NO without worry because he/she understands and recognizes error and novelty. But those who know no better are being cheated of what they should be handed.
I’ve no objection to priests being trained to say the EF. After all, the Holy Father said priests of institutes devoted to the EF could not rightly refuse to celebrate the OF.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Ah, but even I said yes, as I would occasionally attend. Why don’t you make it a more honest poll? “Who wants the EF only?” or “Who believes the OF should be abbrogated?”
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
On the contrary, I merely see what is obvious.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Okay, I understand the distinction.
I’d like to be able to say I agree, but again, I think even a cursory examination of the threads in the Traditional Catholicism forum would reveal that “traditionalists” are far more denigrating and demeaning to people who prefer the OF, etc., than the other way around. If you have doubts about that, I would urge you to look through the threads.
Do you regard it as “demeaning to traditionalists” to defend the Church’s stance on, say, women wearing veils? Is someone “demeaning traditionalists” by pointing out the Church’s legitimate authority on this or any other discipline? Because if that is what you’re referring to, then I would plead guilty.
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At_Trent
Guest
It is an honest poll. Simple yes or no, or not informed enough. I put it there to shield it from the trad bias and in hopes of no argument, but the first post took care of that.
I’m off to work. It will be interesting to see the results hours from now if someone doesn’t start an argument and get the thread closed. I’m sure they will try lol.
Besides, the determination of which from is better is not the intent. The intent is to simply find out if there are those who would attend one if available. And roughly what percentage of those who read the poll.
Who knows, you be proven right, that there is not as much interest as I’d like to see. It may very well prove to support your contention.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
LOL! It isn’t going to prove anything, in my favor OR yours! In terms of world-wide Catholicism, these fora have a relatively small readership (there are over a billiion Cathoics in the world, you know).It is an honest poll. Simple yes or no, or not informed enough. I put it there to shield it from the trad bias and in hopes of no argument, but the first post took care of that.
I’m off to work. It will be interesting to see the results hours from now if someone doesn’t start an argument and get the thread closed. I’m sure they will try lol.
Besides, the determination of which from is better is not the intent. The intent is to simply find out if there are those who would attend one if available. And roughly what percentage of those who read the poll.
Who knows, you be proven right, that there is not as much interest as I’d like to see. It may very well prove to support your contention.
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Lormar
Guest
I don’t agree with you at all. This is just one more example of how divided we are. We’re just talking past one another.
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