what is the REAL reason why protestants reject mary?

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ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,I believe Abraham was already dead physically.
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Yes. The rich man was in Hell, and Abraham was in Heaven. Earth is in between the two. It is closer for human beings to talk to Saints than it is for people in Hell to talk to them - if Abraham could hear the rich man, then he can also hear us.
I must have missed this in Scripture:o
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It’s in Matthew 17:1-8, Mark 9:2-8 and Luke 9:28-36.
I’m not talking about angels. I’m talking about people who have died and gone to heaven.😃
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Before, you were talking about anybody except God. 😉
 
Luke 15:7-10, Luke 20:38, Mark 12:27., Matt 22:32—

More coming!!!😃 :eek:
RE: Saints… dead? What is your heaven like??? not like Mine!!!
 
John 3:2, 15:1-6, 1 Cor 4:9, 12:26, 13:12, Heb 12:1, 1 Pet 2:9, Rev 20:6

Oh and you dont understand verses and try to make them chapters??:confused:

(re: my other citations? how clear do I have to be? most people would get it?)
 
ALLFORHIM said:
I’m not sure what you are trying to prove here. Eph 1:22 is talking about Jesus being the full authority.
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If you start reading from verse 19, it shows that Christ has authority over everyone both in Heaven and on the earth - that all are equally alive, and equally responsible/required to obey His Commandments. St. Paul is saying that the requirement to obey Christ (including pray for others, help others, love others) doesn’t end at death; rather, it is perfected in Heaven.
Yes I see here about the two men. But Jesus is certainly not telling us to pray to them.
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No, but they are both in the afterlife, and Jesus is praying to them in exactly the same way that we pray to the Saints. If we are “little Christs” and totally imitating Him, then we should not fear to pray to the Saints, just as He did.
 
jmcrae said:
Umm, 'kay, sooooo, it’s all right to pray to God’s other creatures just as long as they aren’t Catholic Saints? Am I getting it, now? 😉
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You have it right jmcrae, but I think AFH has not gotten the full gospel here dare I say it so boldly, even if it is only Biblical—

I ask again, in YOUR heaven, is it a bunch of self absorbed souls there or no?

Now, if we ask the simple question here, what is God’s heaven???

Is it just a bunch of souls that are in clouds of glory that have no interest whatsoever in God’s creation ??? Or their own loved ones???and the ones there with them? And theirs? Is your God despotic? does he have a heaven that is selfish and not glorifying him? if you say yes, be careful here, since you have condemend the living and the dead and the unborn,

YOur theology is … empty of logic, reason or truth/. you have no idea about Church millitant triumphant…and , why should I even care to go on??? yOu ignore everyting yet cite nothing to back up your “bible” only basis Alll for Him, do you really Read it? no offense intended but— I have never seen someone be able to “use the bible” against the Chruch that brought it----
sorry if that does not go well with you…

IF that is heaven to you, I dare say it is hell for me.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
Maybe one of you can show me in the bible where it says we should pray to Mary or any of the saints that are already in heaven. That would help.👍
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IHS said:
They can,t show you because it doesn,t exist. No one in sacred scripture has ever prayed to any one elso but to God.
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First answer this you pray for loved ones now when you die and go to heaven will you continue to pray for them? yes or no

Do you believe they can see us at all? Yes or no

Im going to show you from scripture but I ask you to do the same?

(Eph 2:19) “So then you are no longer STRANGERS and sojourners, but you are FELLOW-CITIZENS WITH THE SAINTS, and the house hold of God.” And what do we do with the citizen here on earth we ask for there prayer. Same for the body of Christ in heaven.

(Rev. 8:3-4) “the smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the **holy ones **went up before God from the hand of the angel.” Obviously they pray for us in heaven and present our prayers to the Lord.

Who are these holy ones? And why are the angels handing them to God? If we are only to pray strait to God and if that is all people are doing than the angels would not have any prayers to offer.

(Tobit 12:12) “I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the glory of the Lord.” we have an angel presenting a prayer to God!!! Just as we present prayer for one another here on earth. It has always been Christian tradition that they still do this in heaven. And our loved ones who have gone before us that are equal to the angels pray for us as well.

We are also equal to the angels when in heaven (Lk 20:34-36) and there are countless verses that say angels see us… And if angels can see us and we are equal then those in heaven must be able to see us. And not only do angels see us they help us in our journey to heaven well Catholics believe the saints in heaven who are equal to the angles help us also threw there prayer. “The prayer of a rightous person availath much.”
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,I believe Abraham was already dead physically.
I must have missed this in Scripture:o
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Im not talking about angels. Im talking about people who have died and gone to heaven.😃

of course you did

Mt 22:31-32) “God is God of the Living not the dead. He is the God of Abraham and Isaac.” who are alive.

Im going to stick with the word of God:D And you have given nothing from scripture to suport your claim.
 
I am the vine, you are the branches John 15:4-5
Death CANNOT seperate Christians from Christ
Romans 8:35-39
So heres the clincher…If Christ is the vine and we are the branches and death can not seperate Christians from Christ, than we as branches are connected to Christ the vine, and we are also connected to each other living or physically dead, we are all committed followers of Christ. This is what we profess in the Apostles creed when we say “I believe in the communion of saints” Oh yeah…the Blessed Virgin Mary(all generations will call me blessed Luke 1:48) is part of that communion of saints.we as Christians are all connected as branches(communion of saints) to the Vine Jesus Christ and we are told to pray for one another. Hmmmm… I think that’s what I’ll continue to do.O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary, pray for us, O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ, :amen:
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
Of course I believe she is in heaven and of course I believe she is not bound and gagged. But what you suggest she can do for us here on earth are things only Jesus can do for us. I do not believe the saints in heaven intercede for us. I think they are basking(for lack of a better word)in the Glory of JESUS CHRIST. I believe Mary is also basking in His Glory. As will we when we get to heaven. I believe the only one who knows what is going on here on earth is Jesus Christ and of course God.😃 That is my :twocents: That is my story and Im sticking to it:p 😉
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You are misunderstanding what they are saying here. When we ask Mary to intercede for us with Christ it is not the same thing as asking Mary to perform the requested act. In other words to simplify-

My daughter is sick. I ask Mary to join in our prayer to Jesus for the healing of my daughter. Think of it as nagging. I can ask Jesus for something sure. Do it all the time. But much better if both me and His Mother ask Him. I have not been found by God the Father to be so full of grace that I can bear His only Son. But she has. No angel has appeared before me and said “Hey you have found great favor with God.” She has. In our minds, she is wortheir and holier than ourselves because God has already found her to be so. We do not yet know what condition God will consider us. We do not count ourselves necessarily worthy to always have our prayers answered by Jesus. But we know from the Wedding at Cana, that He will refuse her nothing. Therefore we ask for her intercession (assistance) when praying to Jesus. Is that a little better?

Or again: it is like this. When you were a little kid was there ever something you wanted or wanted to do you were afraid your father would not let you do or have? So you would go to Mama and ask mama to ask Daddy. Ever done that or known anyone who has?
We know Mary is in Heaven as she is a saint. Mary is alive in Heaven. We know we are her children because Jesus said so at the foot of the cross. So sometimes actually most times if we think perhaps we are not in the best standing with Jesus we ask “Mama” to ask for us. Got it?

We ask her to ask. We do not ask her to heal, save or fix. We ask her to ask. that is all that is meant byu intercession. why do you make such a federal case out of it.

Just like when the guys in Cana told Mary the couple had no wine and she asked Jesus on their behalf. They did not ask Jesus- she did. got it?

You are confusing asking with the doing.
 
tequilamac said:
You are confusing asking with the doing.
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Allforhim went home for the night, so I’ll pinch-hit.

It isn’t that hard to find Marian prayers in which Mary is asked to do more than pray: guide, protect, lead home, save, comfort, deliver, rescue, help, heal, etc.

One minute Catholics say that all you do is ask her to pray, and then prayers to her involving action requested by her (not by God, but by her) are quickly discovered. This seems fishy.
It seems to the Protestant that she is attributed directly with the power and will to act independently of God, and given the praise and the glory for so acting, by such prayers and anything perceived as an answer.
 
Truthstalker said:
Allforhim went home for the night, so I’ll pinch-hit.

It isn’t that hard to find Marian prayers in which Mary is asked to do more than pray: guide, protect, lead home, save, comfort, deliver, rescue, help, heal, etc.

One minute Catholics say that all you do is ask her to pray, and then prayers to her involving action requested by her (not by God, but by her) are quickly discovered. This seems fishy.
It seems to the Protestant that she is attributed directly with the power and will to act independently of God, and given the praise and the glory for so acting, by such prayers and anything perceived as an answer.
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We ask Mary to intercede for us with her Son.
We ask Mary for healing i.e. intercede for us with her Son.
We ask Mary to save us, i.e. intercede for us with her Son.

If we are sick we ask mary for healing i.e. intercede for us with her Son.

If we are drowning we don’t say please intercede. We state clearly what we need. Save us we do not want to drown.

When people told Mary the couple had no wine, do you think they expected Mary to fix it? Yes indeedy and she did. She asked her Son for a miracle. And yet you take the miracle at Cana quite literally. But if I say to you that I told Mary help the doctors say I can’t have children and God performed a miracle and now I have children, you will argue all day if Mary was involved. If you can believe Cana from the Bible why not in other situations?
 
QUOTE=Truthstalker;1696965]Allforhim went home for the night, so I’ll pinch-hit.
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Hi!

It isn’t that hard to find Marian prayers in which Mary is asked to do more than pray: guide, protect, lead home, save, comfort, deliver, rescue, help, heal, etc.

She is never asked to “do” a thing other than hear us cry out! To her Son!
One minute Catholics say that all you do is ask her to pray, and then prayers to her involving action requested by her (not by God, but by her) are quickly discovered. This seems fishy.
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(Edited for charity)
It seems to the Protestant that she is attributed directly with the power and will to act independently of God, and given the praise and the glory for so acting, by such prayers and anything perceived as an answer.
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How surprising that a person lacking history would arrive at such Blasphemy!:rolleyes:
 
Damascus said:
Hi!

It isn’t that hard to find Marian prayers in which Mary is asked to do more than pray: guide, protect, lead home, save, comfort, deliver, rescue, help, heal, etc.

She is never asked to “do” a thing other than hear us cry out! To her Son!

(Edited for charity)
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How surprising that a person lacking history would arrive at such Blasphemy!:rolleyes:

Damascus chill out a little before you get suspended. Getting warned or suspended is not useful for God right now.

I’m getting vibes, Damascus, I’m turning red, watch out now. Your radio tower is glowing.
 
Tequillamac,

What did we miss here? I will tell you what! But I must cool down and patiently await Meedo’s Response—

Unless you know of another Muslim that can step in here to —

Tell 'em like it is…

So sad to say it… but true…👍

They will not agree to your post----

Yet they will give her more Honor and Glory than a so called Christian bible only person…
tequilamac said:
We ask Mary to intercede for us with her Son.
We ask Mary for healing i.e. intercede for us with her Son.
We ask Mary to save us, i.e. intercede for us with her Son.

If we are sick we ask mary for healing i.e. intercede for us with her Son.

If we are drowning we don’t say please intercede. We state clearly what we need. Save us we do not want to drown.

When people told Mary the couple had no wine, do you think they expected Mary to fix it? Yes indeedy and she did. She asked her Son for a miracle. And yet you take the miracle at Cana quite literally. But if I say to you that I told Mary help the doctors say I can’t have children and God performed a miracle and now I have children, you will argue all day if Mary was involved. If you can believe Cana from the Bible why not in other situations?
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tequilamac said:
I’m sorry. I have a problem with believing those who have a preference of mottos from the Old Testament following Christ. Catholics are a New Testament sort of people. We have taught the same God for over 2000 years. Not one that changes with every whim, fancy, false pophet, goldne plate, angel so and so, and president.
I’m sorry your God is despotic. but that is what you get without honoring the Mother. Despise not one hair of his head, not one follicle. I think His mother is worth more than a hair, don’t you?
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My God does not share HIS glory, my Jesus needs no mommy, except for the purpose she has served. Your Mary is not biblical.
 
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CherokeeBrave:
My God does not share HIS glory, my Jesus needs no mommy, except for the purpose she has served. Your Mary is not biblical.
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Your self-obsessed God doesn’t at all resemble the Jesus who said ‘whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and greater than these’ as well as ‘he who would be the greatest of all must be last of all and servant of all’

Jesus CHOSE to have a mommy even though he DIDN’T need her. Certainly he didn’t appear as a fully grown motherless adult male on the Temple steps one day, although he certainly could have.

That’s the point of it and the beauty of him. He ISN’T worried about who gets the glory. Glory is the furthest thing from his mind. And he shares it with his disciples and all who do the will of the Father, chief of both these groups, of course, being his mother.

For himself he’s quite prepared to be born in a stable, to ride into Jerusalem on his humble donkey (borrowed - he didn’t even own one of his own!) and turn water into wine at Cana to please his mother. And what a wonderful mother and role-model she was to him and is to us too!
 
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