what is the REAL reason why protestants reject mary?

[ALLFORHIM]

Good Morning everyone:wave: ,

I am very saddened with how this thread is turning out so I have to humbly bow out.I am starting to take some of this personally and I dont want to go down that road. The responses that were made after I left last night were less then charitable. I like all of you and I dont want that to change. When I logged off last night I kept thinking about how I can prove my side. This morning the Holy Spirit has convicted me about the fact THAT IT IS NOT ABOUT ME AND WHAT I WANT TO PROVE. It is about GLORIFYING GOD. I am not doing that on this thread. In the privacy of my home and the safety of being behind a computer I am simply trying to make you see the truth. Well, you know what, that is not my job, that is God’s job. Honestly I have been sinful because the way I am thinking about preaching God’s TRUTH. I have been making it about me. Shame on me. I am humbly telling you this because I didnt just want to stop posting. I think that would be rude.

We will all know the truth someday soon and all of this bickering and trying to prove our side is right and your isnt will be over. I, personally cant wait

I would like to thank Truthstalker and Cherokee for stepping in last night.

I still love you all as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I would like to thank you for challenging me and reminding of Scripture I had forgotten. It was like a mini bible study for me.

God Bless all of you

P.S. Please remember that you praise a Holy God with the same mouth you condemn a man/woman. That my dear friends is sinful.

 

[Odell]

I believe the only one who knows what is going on here on earth is Jesus Christ and of course God.

Lk 15:7-10) “I say to you that there is more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents.”
They have joy over sinners that repent on earth. How can they celebrate over a sinner who repents if they cant see the sinner repenting?

(1 Cor 13:12) “now we see dimly but then we will be face to face.” we want see dimly any more because we will be with God.

We are also equal to the angels when in heaven (Lk 20:34-36) and there are countless verses that say angels see us. I don’t think angels are sad. And if angels can see us and we are equal then those in heaven must be able to see us. And not only do angels see us they help us in our journey to heaven well Catholics believe the saints in heaven who are equal to the angles help us also.

Allforhim went home for the night, so I’ll pinch-hit.

It isn’t that hard to find Marian prayers in which Mary is asked to do more than pray: guide, protect, lead home, save, comfort, deliver, rescue, help, heal, etc.

I ask my guardian angel to protect me all the time. Do you? Or better yet can you?

My angel protects me by the power of Jesus. He couldnt do it without him.

It seems to the Protestant that she is attributed directly with the power and will to act independently of God, and given the praise and the glory for so acting, by such prayers and anything perceived as an answer.

That is why we have these forums I hope this is clear to you now. No one can act independently of God.

My God does not share HIS glory, my Jesus needs no mommy, except for the purpose she has served. Your Mary is not biblical.

Your God seems to be a selfish God. Why dont you get to know ours Jesus Christ

And show me how my Mary is not biblical. The burdon is on you.

 

[Odell]

Good Morning everyone:wave: ,

I am very saddened with how this thread is turning out so I have to humbly bow out.I am starting to take some of this personally and I dont want to go down that road. The responses that were made after I left last night were less then charitable. I like all of you and I dont want that to change. When I logged off last night I kept thinking about how I can prove my side. This morning the Holy Spirit has convicted me about the fact THAT IT IS NOT ABOUT ME AND WHAT I WANT TO PROVE. It is about GLORIFYING GOD. I am not doing that on this thread. In the privacy of my home and the safety of being behind a computer I am simply trying to make you see the truth. Well, you know what, that is not my job, that is God’s job. Honestly I have been sinful because the way I am thinking about preaching God’s TRUTH. I have been making it about me. Shame on me. I am humbly telling you this because I didnt just want to stop posting. I think that would be rude.
.

Sorry if we have offended you ALLFORHIM please come back I had some good bible verses that I actually wanted your charitable response too.

The Holy Spirit is telling me to show you what the word of God says im not just simply trying to prove you wrong Im just trying to convey the truth as God has plainly put it. And it is not at all about me it is about you I love you in Christ and I give what I belive to be true. If it is wrong and you have the truth than you should absolutly share it with us. That is what God would want you to do. Share the truth.

 

[tequilamac]

Good Morning everyone:wave: ,

I am very saddened with how this thread is turning out so I have to humbly bow out.I am starting to take some of this personally and I dont want to go down that road. The responses that were made after I left last night were less then charitable. I like all of you and I dont want that to change. When I logged off last night I kept thinking about how I can prove my side. This morning the Holy Spirit has convicted me about the fact THAT IT IS NOT ABOUT ME AND WHAT I WANT TO PROVE. It is about GLORIFYING GOD. I am not doing that on this thread. In the privacy of my home and the safety of being behind a computer I am simply trying to make you see the truth. Well, you know what, that is not my job, that is God’s job. Honestly I have been sinful because the way I am thinking about preaching God’s TRUTH. I have been making it about me. Shame on me. I am humbly telling you this because I didnt just want to stop posting. I think that would be rude.

P.S. Please remember that you praise a Holy God with the same mouth you condemn a man/woman. That my dear friends is sinful.

You can’t give us what is false then condemn us for not seeing the truth of what you gave us. What you gave us a. contradicts secular history, b. contradicts the history of the Church since 33 AD. c. contradicts the Bible. How are you giving us truth with which to glorify God?

And perhaps you should reflect that you praise a Holy God with the same mouth you reject the Mother of His Son. That is blasphemous.

 

[mrs_abbott]

You can’t give us what is false then condemn us for not seeing the truth of what you gave us. What you gave us a. contradicts secular history, b. contradicts the history of the Church since 33 AD. c. contradicts the Bible. How are you giving us truth with which to glorify God?

And perhaps you should reflect that you praise a Holy God with the same mouth you reject the Mother of His Son. That is blasphemous.

Isn’t the title of this thread “what is the real reason why protestants reject mary”? She’s entitled to her opinion as a protestant, as that’s what this thread was interested in hearing. I think it’s unfair to talk to her like that when she was just expressing her opinion, even if it’s not in accordance with what the CC teaches.

 

[mrs_abbott]

We will all know the truth someday soon and all of this bickering and trying to prove our side is right and your isnt will be over. I, personally cant wait

Me neither! I have so many unanswered questions that I would love to ask God about when I die.

ALLFORHIM:

I still love you all as my brothers and sisters in Christ. I would like to thank you for challenging me and reminding of Scripture I had forgotten. It was like a mini bible study for me.

God Bless all of you

P.S. Please remember that you praise a Holy God with the same mouth you condemn a man/woman. That my dear friends is sinful.

Debating is good, as long as it remains charitable because we never can stop learning the bible, as it is too broad and detailed, and would take a lifetime of study to get it down. (Even then, I’m not so sure I’d know it all. )
I think debating gets too personal and folks get defensive a lot of the time. It’s good to step back and remember that we are all here on this earth to know, love and serve God!
I know this topic is about Mary but in regards to ALLFORHIM’s post about being uncharitable in responses, I had to say that we all need to remember that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. We just have different viewpoints!!!
Ok now back to Mary!!!

 

[mrs_abbott]

Does anyone here understand Jesus and his divinity and his humanity?

He came here to share with us his HUMANITY so we could share in his DIVINITY…

Through my instruction as a cradle Catholic I have come to believe.

 

[tequilamac]

Isn’t the title of this thread “what is the real reason why protestants reject mary”? She’s entitled to her opinion as a protestant, as that’s what this thread was interested in hearing. I think it’s unfair to talk to her like that when she was just expressing her opinion, even if it’s not in accordance with what the CC teaches.

Yes I agree with what the title is. But I disagree that she was “merely” expressing her opinion. If all she did throughout the thread was espress opinion that would be great. But let me ask you something- when you go to someone else’s house to visit, do you go and insult them silly and call your actions “your opinion”? Or if pressed do you express your opinion as nicely as possible in order to not give offense.

I get really really tired ot Protestants and others coming to a Catholic forum, claiming to be all peaceful and full of Christ’s love, then insulting everyone around under the guise of personal opinion, then getting their feelings hurt because they get a response that is negative and then the icing on the cake is a bunch of other Catholics jump in and claim their brothers were not nice, were not charitable, were mean etc. Gee, I hope this is not how you guys all act when you go to visit someone else for dinner or something.

 

[Axion]

Allforhim went home for the night, so I’ll pinch-hit.

It isn’t that hard to find Marian prayers in which Mary is asked to do more than pray: guide, protect, lead home, save, comfort, deliver, rescue, help, heal, etc.

One minute Catholics say that all you do is ask her to pray, and then prayers to her involving action requested by her (not by God, but by her) are quickly discovered. This seems fishy.
It seems to the Protestant that she is attributed directly with the power and will to act independently of God, and given the praise and the glory for so acting, by such prayers and anything perceived as an answer.

Again, this is misunderstanding, coming from a differing viewpoint.

Catholic and other Apostolic believers KNOW that when they ask Mary for something that Mary ony Acts within God’s will. It is known but does not always have to be said, that a prayer to Mary is a prayer for her to jpoin us in our plea to God. Just as when someone asked the Apostles to heal them, it was not that the Apostles healed in their own power, but in the power of God.

The fact that you, as an outside observer, do not immediately register this, makes no difference to the truth of the act.

 

[LilyM]

ALLFORHIM:

Good Morning everyone ,

I am very saddened with how this thread is turning out so I have to humbly bow out.I am starting to take some of this personally and I dont want to go down that road. The responses that were made after I left last night were less then charitable. I like all of you and I dont want that to change. When I logged off last night I kept thinking about how I can prove my side. This morning the Holy Spirit has convicted me about the fact THAT IT IS NOT ABOUT ME AND WHAT I WANT TO PROVE. It is about GLORIFYING GOD. I am not doing that on this thread. In the privacy of my home and the safety of being behind a computer I am simply trying to make you see the truth. Well, you know what, that is not my job, that is God’s job. Honestly I have been sinful because the way I am thinking about preaching God’s TRUTH. I have been making it about me. Shame on me. I am humbly telling you this because I didnt just want to stop posting. I think that would be rude.

Thank you for reminding us to keep our charity levels up, and the bashing levels down AFH. I humbly apologise for being crabby to you and others in here :bowdown:

Mary is spiritually my mother, very nearly as dear to me as my biological mother, and certainly like most Catholics I love her and honour her highly.

Which is not to say we ever place her above Our Lord in any way. But it does mean I and we are vigorous in her defence as we are in the defence of all the other things and people we hold dear.

You might find this on other topics too - such as the Eucharist - since we believe Jesus to be really and transubstantially present in it.

And the Pope - since we believe him to be Christ’s vicar on earth and specially gifted with the Keys of the Kingdom, the power of binding and loosing and the protection of the Holy Spirit to keep him from error in most of his teachings. If not, unfortunately, in his private life.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

My God does not share HIS glory, my Jesus needs no mommy, except for the purpose she has served. Your Mary is not biblical.

\

I’d say its unbiblical (and a moot point) to say that Jesus “needs no mommy.” Jesus, the Second Person of the Trinity came us through Mary; He indeed had a mother! Does not St. Paul tell us in Gal. 4:4 that the Son of God was born of a woman?

P.S. I’d also suggest that you pray and mediate on upon the Joyful Mysteries since they focus on the Incarnation.

 

[KnightforChrist]

I always wonder regarding various things in life, what makes people think this way or that…What makes them tick…The magic question right ???

But regarding Mary, since we belive, as Christians that scripture is the inspired word of God, why do so many christians reject Mary and thus cast a blind eye toward the parts of scripture which show her special place in God’s plan ???

She is a person who was referred to as blessed and having found favor with the Lord, and the mother of our Lord…

Why then, would anyone want to cast her aside as someone who is unimportant or not worthy of our love after the references that have been made to her in sacred scripture ???

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t undestand why we can’t believe that Mary herself can do things for us.

We can do things for each other, can we not? If I get a flat tire, I don’t have to pray to Jesus for a miracle. I can pray to Jesus for the miracle, plus, I can call the AMA and have them send someone to fix my tire for me.

Is the AMA guy going to lose his ability to fix tires when he goes to Heaven? I don’t think he will. Maybe he will even become the Patron Saint of emergency tire fixers.

My point is: Aren’t we going to be stronger and more powerful when we get to Heaven than we are right now? So, we will be able to do things for each other in Heaven, too. And for the people on earth, as well.

I don’t see any good reason why we can’t ask Mary not only to pray for us, but also to help us, herself, as well. It takes nothing away from Christ. We worship Christ in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass; we don’t worship Mary or any of the other Saints. Asking for help is not at all the same thing as worship.

(And if someone’s idea of “worship” is to ask God for help, then it’s that person who doesn’t understand who God is, or what worship is - and that’s not our problem, I don’t think.)

 

[tequilamac]

I don’t undestand why we can’t believe that Mary herself can do things for us.

We can do things for each other, can we not? If I get a flat tire, I don’t have to pray to Jesus for a miracle. I can pray to Jesus for the miracle, plus, I can call the AMA and have them send someone to fix my tire for me.

Is the AMA guy going to lose his ability to fix tires when he goes to Heaven? I don’t think he will. Maybe he will even become the Patron Saint of emergency tire fixers.

My point is: Aren’t we going to be stronger and more powerful when we get to Heaven than we are right now? So, we will be able to do things for each other in Heaven, too. And for the people on earth, as well.

I don’t see any good reason why we can’t ask Mary not only to pray for us, but also to help us, herself, as well. It takes nothing away from Christ. We worship Christ in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass; we don’t worship Mary or any of the other Saints. Asking for help is not at all the same thing as worship.

(And if someone’s idea of “worship” is to ask God for help, then it’s that person who doesn’t understand who God is, or what worship is - and that’s not our problem, I don’t think.)

We do ask saints for their help. From God. Because when we “properly” worship we know a. only God’s will will be done, b. all good comes from God, whether it be the actions of the saint or the Triple AAA. We know that nothing can be done by Mary or the SAints or anyone else without God’s cooperation.

By the way, maybe this is why you are confused about this. After all, you said when you get a flat tire you call the American Medical Association. The rest of us Catholics would probably call Triple A or a tow truck or fix the flat ourselves.

 

[jmcrae]

We do ask saints for their help. From God. Because when we “properly” worship we know a. only God’s will will be done, b. all good comes from God, whether it be the actions of the saint or the Triple AAA. We know that nothing can be done by Mary or the Saints or anyone else without God’s cooperation.

Absolutely - my every breath comes from God. My ability to help other people comes from God. A mechanic’s ability to fix a car comes from God. We don’t lose any of that when we go to Heaven.

By the way, maybe this is why you are confused about this. After all, you said when you get a flat tire you call the American Medical Association. The rest of us Catholics would probably call Triple A or a tow truck or fix the flat ourselves.

I live in Alberta, and being an older lady, I call the Alberta Motor Association whenever I get a flat.

 

[tequilamac]

Absolutely - my every breath comes from God. My ability to help other people comes from God. A mechanic’s ability to fix a car comes from God. We don’t lose any of that when we go to Heaven.

I live in Alberta, and being an older lady, I call the Alberta Motor Association whenever I get a flat.

I’m in the states. I was wondering why you were so angry with your doctor you wanted to make him Patron Saint of Flat Tire Mechanics.

 

[mrs_abbott]

I get really really tired ot Protestants and others coming to a Catholic forum, claiming to be all peaceful and full of Christ’s love, then insulting everyone around under the guise of personal opinion, then getting their feelings hurt because they get a response that is negative and then the icing on the cake is a bunch of other Catholics jump in and claim their brothers were not nice, were not charitable, were mean etc. Gee, I hope this is not how you guys all act when you go to visit someone else for dinner or something.

Doesn’t Catholic mean universal? Shouldn’t we accept anyone who comes here? She was expressing her belief and said that she was firm in that belief.
Is your goal to spread Catholicism to those that aren’t Catholic or to bash them for their beliefs?
I just think, personally, that we’d get farther with charity here, especially when we have Catholics and Protestants alike who are very firm and grounded in their beliefs.
I’d just like to see a thread where there’s no personal insulting, just as you would expect from being a guest in someone’s home.

 

[IHS]

I don’t undestand why we can’t believe that Mary herself can do things for us. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If you really love Mary,and I,m sure you do, you will do what she requested. DO WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU TO DO. Jesus said ask anything in my name and it shall be given to you. Why are you being disobedient to His Word?

 

[LilyM]

jmcrae;1698425:

I don’t undestand why we can’t believe that Mary herself can do things for us. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If you really love Mary,and I,m sure you do, you will do what she requested. DO WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU TO DO. Jesus said ask anything in my name and it shall be given to you. Why are you being disobedient to His Word?

Why are you being disobedient to Jesus’ word when he said ‘behold your mother’ AND ‘honour thy father and thy mother’? And why do you refuse to believe that he hears her when his example in Cana very clearly shows contrariwise?

 

[tequilamac]

jmcrae;1698425:

I don’t undestand why we can’t believe that Mary herself can do things for us. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ If you really love Mary,and I,m sure you do, you will do what she requested. DO WHATEVER HE TELLS YOU TO DO. Jesus said ask anything in my name and it shall be given to you. Why are you being disobedient to His Word?

We aren’t. You are. She is our mother. He gave her to us. We behave accordingly.
Catholics are after all just about the only Bible believing Christians. And when Jesus said behold your mother, we must take that literally as we take all His words literally. Thank you though. We can only follow His Word, you know.