what is the REAL reason why protestants reject mary?

[LilyM]

Hi,
I have never thought of Jesus Christ as my brother. I think of Him as the Messiah, Lord of Lord and King of Kings. I actually have never heard anyone say they think of Jesus as their brother This is a first for me.

 

[Darrel]

Perhaps because they were still influenced by the church they they were coming out of and it’s teachings, who knows? But the Reformers weren’t infallible even if I do agree with what they did in protesting and leaving the CC. We can respect them but untimatley, our authority on the subject of Mary is Scripture, not the Reformers. Of course, I’m speaking of those of us who believe God’s word is the ultimate and final authority.

I see,

We obviously don’t agree on the scripture having authority issue. (Although for 20 plus years I did agree with you.) The problem with the scripture being the final authority is that it leaves no room for God to do anything new which is not Gods nature in all of scripture. He didn’t just send the Holy Spirit and say … the end. New things have been given to his true Church all through history. The only thing I see new in protestant Churches is this weeks interpretation of scripture and it’s errors.

I hope you understand that we Catholics do not view the people in heaven with Jesus as dead we view them as alive. We can ask the living to pray for us. When I pray the Rosary a part of it is to say “Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires hell, lead all souls to heaven especialy those in most need of thy mercy”. Sound like a salvation prayer to you? Even in the Rosary Christs salvation is given proper notice and proclamation. We don’t view Christ or the Father as harsh, we view them as being full of mercy. This can be seen in the Chaplet of divine mercy. (Another new thing given to us by God after the ascention). I know it seems like common sense to assume that obviously Mary should not be given any notice or the level of honor that the CC gives her. But I have to say that it takes common sense to trust the word of the original Christian Church established by God over any Johny come lately interpretations of scripture that wrongly attach authority to a Catholic compilation of Holy books.

-D

 

[ALLFORHIM]

ALLFORHIM;1689999:

Then may I respectfully point you to Romans 8:14 and 15-17

'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God … the Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ

"

Sounds pretty brotherly (if only by adoption) to me

:yup: it’s the ending of the episode where he’s found in the Temple - Luke 2:51-52 to be precise:

‘He [Jesus] went down with them [Mary and Joseph - ie from the Temple after they found him there] and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them … and Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and favour before God and man.’

THAT’S what I’m talkin’ about people!

Hi,
Thank you for clarifying those Scriptures for me. I can see how you would think brother and I also get what you are saying about being obedient to His earthly parents. Thanks for the little lesson.

 

[4given]

I see,

We obviously don’t agree on the scripture having authority issue. (Although for 20 plus years I did agree with you.) The problem with the scripture being the final authority is that it leaves no room for God to do anything new which is not Gods nature in all of scripture. He didn’t just send the Holy Spirit and say … the end. New things have been given to his true Church all through history. The only thing I see new in protestant Churches is this weeks interpretation of scripture and it’s errors.

God is free to do something new but it should be obvious that whatever it might be can’t contradict the Scriptures or He’d be contradicting Himself since He is the ultimate Author of said Scriptures. There needs to be a set standard to measure things by and for Protestants that standard is the word of God, not the word of the CC or its pope and magisterum, with all due respect.

I hope you understand that we Catholics do not view the people in heaven with Jesus as dead we view them as alive.

Yes, I’m aware of the Catholic view. But they’re dead physically and alive in heaven. We’re separated for now by physical death. There’s nothing in Scripture that leads me to believe I should seek communication with them.

But I have to say that it takes common sense to trust the word of the original Christian Church established by God over any Johny come lately interpretations of scripture that wrongly attach authority to a Catholic compilation of Holy books.

-D

With respect to your position, our views of Christ’s church aren’t the same so I don’t trust the CC’s word over what I see in the Bible. And I can almost bet what your next response will be. :yup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I see,

We obviously don’t agree on the scripture having authority issue. (Although for 20 plus years I did agree with you.) The problem with the scripture being the final authority is that it leaves no room for God to do anything new which is not Gods nature in all of scripture. He didn’t just send the Holy Spirit and say … the end. New things have been given to his true Church all through history. The only thing I see new in protestant Churches is this weeks interpretation of scripture and it’s errors.

I hope you understand that we Catholics do not view the people in heaven with Jesus as dead we view them as alive. We can ask the living to pray for us. When I pray the Rosary a part of it is to say “Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires hell, lead all souls to heaven especialy those in most need of thy mercy”. Sound like a salvation prayer to you? Even in the Rosary Christs salvation is given proper notice and proclamation. We don’t view Christ or the Father as harsh, we view them as being full of mercy. This can be seen in the Chaplet of divine mercy. (Another new thing given to us by God after the ascention). I know it seems like common sense to assume that obviously Mary should not be given any notice or the level of honor that the CC gives her. But I have to say that it takes common sense to trust the word of the original Christian Church established by God over any Johny come lately interpretations of scripture that wrongly attach authority to a Catholic compilation of Holy books.

-D

Hi,
I thought public revelation ended with the Apostle? I do believe in private revelation to a believer in Christ. By private revelation I mean that Godor the Holy Spirit helps us and guides us to what God’s will is for us to submit to.

 

[Damascus]

Hi,
I am following His example when I honor my own mother. **There is **]such little about Mary in the bible

. I do agree with how 4given explained it.
Where is the verse that speaks about how Mary and Jesus’s brothers came to see him and He said who are my mother and brothers–those who follow me. (Im paraphrasing of course)but Jesus did not give her any glory in that statement even remotely equal to Him. Mary was chosen by God to give birth to our Lord and Savior Praise be to God, but that is as far as it goes at least biblically. Moses and Noah and David and Abraham etc. were all chosen by God for a specific purpose as well. Moses was given fantastic praise by the Jews and they still do I think. He was doing the Will of God just like Mary. Neither of them wanted any praise they simply worshipped God and gave Him all the Glory.

Nope. Get ready for some scripture baby.

I will post in several groupings as to not bombard the board with scripture.

Lets start with simply a few, then go on – granted I realize you will have argument with some. But you will be surprised how wrong you are.

Gen 3:15, Rev 12:1, John 2:4& 19:26, Isaiah 7:14, Matt 1:23, 2:11, Luke is loaded --(just a few now) 1:28, 1:35, 1:38, 1:42,43,46.,48
Gal 4:4 …

I’ve got a ton more so hold on and I will be backl!!

 

[4given]

Yes, the canon of Scripture is complete and closed. Whatever God does now or wherever He may lead won’t conflict with that closed canon.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM;1690028:

Hi,
Thank you for clarifying those Scriptures for me. I can see how you would think brother and I also get what you are saying about being obedient to His earthly parents. Thanks for the little lesson.

My pleasure :tiphat:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Nope. Get ready for some scripture baby.

I will post in several groupings as to not bombard the board with scripture.

Lets start with simply a few, then go on – granted I realize you will have argument with some. But you will be surprised how wrong you are.

Gen 3:15, Rev 12:1, John 2:4& 19:26, Isaiah 7:14, Matt 1:23, 2:11, Luke is loaded --(just a few now) 1:28, 1:35, 1:38, 1:42,43,46.,48
Gal 4:4 …

I’ve got a ton more so hold on and I will be backl!!

Hi D,
What exactly are you trying to prove with these Scriptures? Thanks for not bombarding me. I have read through some and Im not finding a point you are trying to make.
Wait, I think I got it. Your responding to what I said about Mary not being mentioned much in Scripture—right. I stand corrected.

 

[Damascus]

Continued for all for him—

(keep in mind I am not even bringing up the more “controversial” verses here that seem to be problematic for non catholics–

Rev 12:17, John 2:3, JOHN 2:7, Psalm 45:9 (yes afm, its ot, read it anyway and tell me your thoughts)

2 Chron 22:10, Neh 2:16, I Kings 2:17,18,19,20 and 15:13 Yes even here you will see it.

SO much more! yet I gotta run now. Happy reading!

 

[LilyM]

Yes, the canon of Scripture is complete and closed. Whatever God does now or wherever He may lead won’t conflict with that closed canon.

conflict? conflict? I agree with you that prayer to deceased Saints or Marian devotions aren’t expressly contained in scripture but it’s a bit rich to say that any practice or belief of the Catholic Church conflicts with the canon set by that very same church itself.

 

[tequilamac]

Since the OP asks what’s the real reason PROTESTANTS reject Mary shouldn’t the Protestants here be able to respond according to what they believe? After all, if the OP wants to know why Protestants reject what he or she thinks they’re rejecting, they should be the ones to answer it sounds like to me. If he or she wants Protestant reasons, he or she might want some Protestant answers.

That does not make any sense. If a Protestant wants to know why Protestants reject Mary then they should ask Protestants ona Protestant forum. No one comes to a Catholic forum to ask what protestants think unless they are loading the gun so to speak. If they really wanted Protestant answers, they would ask a Protestant forum. How are catholics supposed to give an answer to that which makes no sense to them?

We know what JW’s think sort of but not really. We can study the JW website all day or the Mormon website all day. But since it makes no sense to us, we are not the people to ask for an education in JW or LDS. Likewaise Catholics are not the best teachers of Lutheranism, or Calvinism. No. Anyone asking Catholics on a Catholic forum what Protestants think is looking for something besides answers. Sorry.

 

[Damascus]

conflict? conflict? I agree with you that prayer to deceased Saints or Marian devotions aren’t expressly contained in scripture but it’s a bit rich to say that any practice or belief of the Catholic Church conflicts with the canon set by that very same church itself.

I think I can find some with some time… Yes, I know I can…

 

[Damascus]

Hi D,
What exactly are you trying to prove with these Scriptures? Thanks for not bombarding me. I have read through some and Im not finding a point you are trying to make.
Wait, I think I got it. Your responding to what I said about Mary not being mentioned much in Scripture—right. I stand corrected.

I am replying to your assertation Mary not mentioned in the bible much.

I say you are missing it then.

 

[Damascus]

conflict? conflict? I agree with you that prayer to deceased Saints or Marian devotions aren’t expressly contained in scripture but it’s a bit rich to say that any practice or belief of the Catholic Church conflicts with the canon set by that very same church itself.

4given,

The Saints are more alive then we are, and the eternal soul is something you forget, you also assume that saints can ANSWER the prayers-- they can not–they merely pass the petition on to God—

Eph 3:14-15
Romans 8:35 -39

But the best of many I dont cite due to time restraints-

Matt 17:3, Mark 9:4, Luke 9:30

there are more—

I’ll do my best to come back.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Continued for all for him—

(keep in mind I am not even bringing up the more “controversial” verses here that seem to be problematic for non catholics–

Rev 12:17, John 2:3, JOHN 2:7, Psalm 45:9 (yes afm, its ot, read it anyway and tell me your thoughts)

2 Chron 22:10, Neh 2:16, I Kings 2:17,18,19,20 and 15:13 Yes even here you will see it.

SO much more! yet I gotta run now. Happy reading!

Hi,
I think I know what your getting at Referring to the OT Scriptures–those verses were all referring to earthly Queens not heavenly ones. I see no connection at all. In the NT Mary was never referred to as Queen mother. But I can see where catholics get this idea. Because you are taught that she is the Queen Mother you need to find it somewhere in Scripture, but the verses you quoted in the OT are a HUGE STRETCH. As for Genesis 3:15 not sure where you are going with this As far as Revelations: there was a thread on this and I believe most people agreed that was Israel not Mary.
In John 3 Jesus was rebuking Mary. John & not sure what your point is
Psalm 45:9 we will disagree Im sure We believe that to be Israel because this is OT and Mary and the Church are not yet in the picture.
Ok next:thumbsup:

 

[dalcent]

…it’s a bit rich to say that any practice or belief of the Catholic Church conflicts with the canon set by that very same church itself.

Any practice or belief of the [contemporary] Catholic Church cannot conflict with the canon set by that very same church [in the 4th-century]?

Is the Church philosophically and necessarily immutable? Because the self-same Church settled the canon 16 centuries ago nothing it practices or believes today can conflict with the canon, because, well just because? Surely, a logical fallacy.

 

[Odell]

In John 3 Jesus was rebuking Mary. John & not sure what your point is
Ok next:thumbsup:

Jesus never rebuked his mother to do so would be breaking a commandment we know Jesus never did such a thing to think so in my book is a heresy. So please dont distort scripture.

The woman in revelation is very much Mary. Most people are in agreement that it was her.

 

[Damascus]

Nope again AFH. Catholics did not make me see it with all due respect, dont speak for me here.

I will be happy to go over it with you either by PM or new and separate threads.

I dont mind if you dont see it, I think we need to specify in detail why.

I also think the tendancy to dismiss the OT will leave you with some theological dilemmas when a lot of what you do believe is selectively taken from it, yet you reject some of it.

For instance, When Christ was on the cross and said "…why have you forsaken me?..

do you know where that came from? and what the meaning of using it was?

and why you can not seperate the God of the OT with the God of the NT as they are the same and yet he is slowly revealing himself to us continually throughout …

I will ask you to re-evaluate and read it again, but this time the way you know I read scripture first, and then we can go on from there…

I have no problem getting into this deeper…

Hi,
I think I know what your getting at Referring to the OT Scriptures–those verses were all referring to earthly Queens not heavenly ones. I see no connection at all. In the NT Mary was never referred to as Queen mother. But I can see where catholics get this idea. Because you are taught that she is the Queen Mother you need to find it somewhere in Scripture, but the verses you quoted in the OT are a HUGE STRETCH. As for Genesis 3:15 not sure where you are going with this As far as Revelations: there was a thread on this and I believe most people agreed that was Israel not Mary.
In John 3 Jesus was rebuking Mary. John & not sure what your point is
Psalm 45:9 we will disagree Im sure We believe that to be Israel because this is OT and Mary and the Church are not yet in the picture.
Ok next:thumbsup:

 

[Damascus]

Jesus never rebuked his mother to do so would be breaking a commandment we know Jesus never did such a thing to think so in my book is a heresy. So please dont distort scripture.

The woman in revelation is very much Mary. Most people are in agreement that it was her.

Yes Odell, I misunderstood this for a long time, yet I want to address it with all for him with out personal attack as she is never uncharitable to anyone, and very fun to read scripture with IMHO!!!