what is the REAL reason why protestants reject mary?

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dalcent said:
Any practice or belief of the [contemporary] Catholic Church cannot conflict with the canon set by that very same church [in the 4th-century]?

Is the Church philosophically and necessarily immutable? Because the self-same Church settled the canon 16 centuries ago nothing it practices or believes today can conflict with the canon, because, well just because? Surely, a logical fallacy.:confused:
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:confused:

I found nothing in Lily M’s post that was illogical. Can you help me see it better? I must have missed something BIG.

BTW- have you decided to stay a Catholic or are you still resenting the Church?:rolleyes:
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi,
I thought public revelation ended with the Apostle? I do believe in private revelation to a believer in Christ. By private revelation I mean that Godor the Holy Spirit helps us and guides us to what God’s will is for us to submit to.👍
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As far as I’m concerned every Protestant denomination with it’s individual interpretation of scripture is a public proclamation of a private revelation. When any pastor decides to start a Church it’s the same thing your calling a public revelation in Catholic teaching. The difference is that the Catholic Church has a right to exist and claims the promise given by Christ to Peter. Protestant churches just make it up as they go and stretch from drinking snake venom for God to ultra liberal OSAS.

-D
 
ALL for Him - what is your problem with the NT I cited? there is more. :confused:
 
dalcent said:
Any practice or belief of the [contemporary] Catholic Church cannot conflict with the canon set by that very same church [in the 4th-century]?

Is the Church philosophically and necessarily immutable? Because the self-same Church settled the canon 16 centuries ago nothing it practices or believes today can conflict with the canon, because, well just because? Surely, a logical fallacy.:confused:
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Yes. Immutable. That is why most of Christianity did not jump on the bandwagon or pardon me the covered wagon and follow Joseph Smith to Utah. 👍
 
God is free to do something new but it should be obvious that whatever it might be can’t contradict the Scriptures or He’d be contradicting Himself since He is the ultimate Author of said Scriptures. There needs to be a set standard to measure things by and for Protestants that standard is the word of God, not the word of the CC or its pope and magisterum, with all due respect.
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The protestant standard of the word of word of God equates to chaos. Your standing up for Christian division under the guise of… **it’s ok as long as Jesus is acknowledged. **Did he say a house divided against it’s self can not stand? I think hes right.
Yes, I’m aware of the Catholic view. But they’re dead physically and alive in heaven. We’re separated for now by physical death. There’s nothing in Scripture that leads me to believe I should seek communication with them.
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I know,

Yet there is nothing in scripture saying that Christ wanted his words interpreted a million different ways. (Does he? )(and please don’t ignore this question).
With respect to your position, our views of Christ’s church aren’t the same so I don’t trust the CC’s word over what I see in the Bible. And I can almost bet what your next response will be. :yup:
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Same question as above. Does Christ want his words interpreted a million different ways? This includes his definition of his Church? Last time I checked Jesus was in favor of structure verses chaos.

-D
 
dalcent said:
Any practice or belief of the [contemporary] Catholic Church cannot conflict with the canon set by that very same church [in the 4th-century]?

Is the Church philosophically and necessarily immutable? Because the self-same Church settled the canon 16 centuries ago nothing it practices or believes today can conflict with the canon, because, well just because? Surely, a logical fallacy.:confused:
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No, not ‘just because’ - because Christ himsef promised the Church the protection of the Holy Spirit (the same Spirit that inspired the Bible writers, by the way, hence the impossibility of conflict) and that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it.

Of course if the Church taught something that CONFLICTED with (ie was opposed to) scripture, His inerrant word, then the gates of Hell would’ve prevailed.
 
Darrel said:
As far as I’m concerned every Protestant denomination with it’s individual interpretation of scripture is a public proclamation of a private revelation. When any pastor decides to start a Church it’s the same thing your calling a public revelation in Catholic teaching. The difference is that the Catholic Church has a right to exist and claims the promise given by Christ to Peter. Protestant churches just make it up as they go and stretch from drinking snake venom for God to ultra liberal OSAS.

-D
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Hi,
You are sounding a little hostile here and ignorant of how my church teaches anyway. There are some bad protestant churches, Ill give you that. As far as Im concerned, if a church is teaching sound biblical principle from the bible, they are good to go.👍
 
I think the proper question should be “Reject her as what” I would accept her as the blessed virgin with all the honor as a chosen one deserves. There was none greater born of woman than John The Babtist so I would offer him at least equal honor. To say that Protestants reject Mary is not an honest perception just like accusing Catholics of raising her to the level of a Goddess is not fair either. I think that each side should define their position with out name calling. I see no purpose in trying to insult one another by labeling one another as “fundametalists” or “Idolaters”. Let us define our terms because I think that there is a great misunderstanding between both sides of this issue.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Well, if you are pointing out that there are several mentions about Mary then nothing:thumbsup:
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All for Him> We are friends right?

Its not nice to say this, as I take that comment “several” mentions to be a mock of some sorts.

Fine, prove me wrong AFH.

Cite ALL the scripture pertaining to her you can.

Why should I be the one busting my butt when yOu claim to be bible only and cant come up with the trump??

At least I can!!!😃
 
Damascus said:
All for Him> We are friends right?

Its not nice to say this, as I take that comment “several” mentions to be a mock of some sorts.

Fine, prove me wrong AFH.

Cite ALL the scripture pertaining to her you can.

Why should I be the one busting my butt when yOu claim to be bible only and cant come up with the trump??

At least I can!!!😃
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Hi, NO NO NO I meant no disrespect. Oh my goodness Im so sorry you took it wrong. I figured that you were pointing out to me that I was mistaken about my comment about there not being much about Mary mentioned in the bible. I was agreeing with you but it came wrong apparently. Please forgive me.
 
6glargento said:
i always wondered this. if you look at the earliest writings of the reformers, they gave mary the proper honor she deserves. luther even upheld many of the catholic marian doctrines. At what point did the protestants start to demonize marian devotion? do you think they had some other alterior or political motive other than the “its not in the bible” argument?

Could it be that perhaps God punished them for thier rebelion by hardening their hearts to his mother in order to limit their graces?
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**That’s a very dangerous type of argument - it could be answered by replying that God has blinded Catholics so that they give her far too much honour. **​

**This kind of reasoning absolutely destroys any possibility of reasoned discussion with “the other side”. **

**As to the question in the headline - there are many reasons: one contribution, if an indirect one (it was not an issue at first, just as the Mass was not, at first) is that there was a lot of extremely questionable Mariology around just before the Reformation. One of my “favourite” examples is the sermon in which St.Bernardino of Siena claimed Mary “could do more concerning God than God could do regarding Himself”. That is simply not Christian 😦 - after blasphemous trash like that, the austere theism of John Calvin is a breath of fresh air. Calvin is a true Reformer, who threw out some good stuff perhaps - but he helped to clear the Church of hundreds of years of rubbish as well. The Church wouldn’t (or couldn’t) reform itself - so God in his mercy raised up Luther & Calvin & many others to do that work even despite the Church if need be. **

**That may be an unconventional reading of events - but I don’t think it is incompatible with anything Catholic. And it does allow Catholics to see the Reformation as a blessing, if a painful & well-disguised one **##
 
ALLFORHIM said:
Hi, NO NO NO I meant no disrespect. Oh my goodness Im so sorry you took it wrong. I figured that you were pointing out to me that I was mistaken about my comment about there not being much about Mary mentioned in the bible. I was agreeing with you but it came wrong apparently. Please forgive me.
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You never have to ask me AFH, as I am not a good witness:(

But I love HIM as a breathe and could not without HIM.

And you know I love the Bible!🙂

Sorry but I get sensitive sometimes about the bible, and what is in it!🙂
 
4given said:
There needs to be a set standard to measure things by and for Protestants that standard is the word of God, not the word of the CC or its pope and magisterum, with all due respect.
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This is kind of an ironic statement, seeing as how Protestants wouldn’t even have an NT canon to use in making trite references to “God’s word” without the authority of the magisterium. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you! 😃
 
6glargento said:
i always wondered this. if you look at the earliest writings of the reformers, they gave mary the proper honor she deserves. luther even upheld many of the catholic marian doctrines. At what point did the protestants start to demonize marian devotion? do you think they had some other alterior or political motive other than the “its not in the bible” argument?

Could it be that perhaps God punished them for thier rebelion by hardening their hearts to his mother in order to limit their graces?
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Who was it that said people are usually right in what they affirm and wrong in what they deny? The statement might fit here.
 
Damascus said:
You never have to ask me AFH, as I am not a good witness:(

But I love HIM as a breathe and could not without HIM.

And you know I love the Bible!🙂

Sorry but I get sensitive sometimes about the bible, and what is in it!🙂
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Ditto and I do apologize.😦 Are we still friends:o
 
My problem is not with Mary, or who she was or what she did or do not do.

It’s about who am I going to be devoted to, Mary or Jesus?

I think it subtracts from Jesus to go through Mary instead of him to God.
 
ALLFORHIM said:
PHEW. AMEN!!!
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All For Him, I have a question for you about the bible regarding Mary.

If its okay with you I will PM you tomorrow early afternoon, as I am not able to devote the time to it now, but trust me its not “controversial” in nature…

Its more of a question from the heart, see you soon sister! I love you!🙂

You help me everyday!:cool:
 
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