What is the sin with the worst (long-term) consequences (to the soul)?

[spn82756]

i hateto tell u this, but Jesus Christ is legalistic

when asked what a person must do to be saved Jesus said to obey the Commandmetns…

He didn’t say Accept me as your personal Savior (whatever that means exactly)… YEs we should have a relatioships w/ Jesus… but what kind of relationshiop… One where we say, “Hey, Jesus, what’s happenin’? I committed fornication today… but i know You understand… and I’m forgiven no matter what. See ya… I’m off to party again…”

not such a great relationship, is it?

no, ***Jesus said to obey God’s laws… ***

What happens if he dies after repenting…but before being to the sacrament of reconciliation. Jesus was not legalistic. If he was…then you had better sell all you own and give it to the poor and follow him. That’s legalism! BTW…if you do that…we won’t be able to chat…so keep your pc!

 

[Moscati]

What happens if he dies after repenting…but before being to the sacrament of reconciliation. Jesus was not legalistic. If he was…then you had better sell all you own and give it to the poor and follow him. That’s legalism! BTW…if you do that…we won’t be able to chat…so keep your pc!

There’s room in Catholic theology for a person like this to be saved–perfect contrition and all that. We don’t know, so we can’t judge.

 

[kage_ar]

Yes he is. But the question is…what happens if he dies before confessing? I think that unlike the Orthodox…we Catholics tend to be very legalistic.

Peace my friend
Steve

Did he make a perfect act of contrition?

 

[spn82756]

Did he make a perfect act of contrition?

Is there such a thing for a human to do anything perfect. Ah…now the legalism!

On another point…I guess all the other Christian denominations that don’t have the sacrament of confession are all going to hell…seeing as how a perfect act of contrition is not something easily done. Just a little more legality. Now…have you sold all your stuff…given the money to the poor and followed Jesus? Just a little more legality.

 

[Michael_Vernon]

Wow, Steve, I entered this thread with a burning reply at my fingertip (I’m a hunt-and-peck typist), but when I read your last reply, I almost thought I had nothing left to say. But I do have something to say: I hate to see or hear discussions like this because “even the near occasions of sin” can be potentially deadly to the soul. Moreover, how could we not hate to do anything which hurts the most lovable and loving Person in the universe? Sin is not only about wounding the soul, it’s about wounding GOD. It’s about hurting and jeopardizing our relationship with the Source of Love and Life. Why should we talk about how much we can flirt with death without killing ourselves. As someone who was raped as a child, I can tell you that even the effects of sin on others can be catastrophic and permanent.

 

[kage_ar]

Is there such a thing for a human to do anything perfect. Ah…now the legalism!

On another point…I guess all the other Christian denominations that don’t have the sacrament of confession are all going to hell…seeing as how a perfect act of contrition is not something easily done. Just a little more legality. Now…have you sold all your stuff…given the money to the poor and followed Jesus? Just a little more legality.

Jesus himself said that there are those who will say “Lord, didn’t we cast out devils in your name” and He will say “depart from me for I never knew you”.

Jesus is love, those who love Him KEEP His commandments.

Those who reject Him reject His commandments.

Just quotin Jesus.

 

[spn82756]

Jesus himself said that there are those who will say “Lord, didn’t we cast out devils in your name” and He will say “depart from me for I never knew you”.

Jesus is love, those who love Him KEEP His commandments.

Those who reject Him reject His commandments.

Just quotin Jesus.

You didn’t answer the question.

 

[kage_ar]

You didn’t answer the question.

I’m going to assume you are doing a Protestant-out-of-context reading of Luke chapter 18? I don’t see a real question, as Jesus did not say that every Christian must sell all they have and give it to the poor. That was His challange to the rich young man.

Let’s read what Jesus did say to his disciples in a bit more context:

**
An official asked him this question, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19
Jesus answered him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
20
You know the commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother.’”
21
And he replied, “All of these I have observed from my youth.”
22
5 When Jesus heard this he said to him, “There is still one thing left for you: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
23
But when he heard this he became quite sad, for he was very rich.
24
Jesus looked at him (now sad) and said, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!
25
For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Those who heard this said, “Then who can be saved?”
27
And he said, “What is impossible for human beings is possible for God.”
28
Then Peter said, “We have given up our possessions and followed you.”
29
He said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
30
who will not receive (back) an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.”**

To answer you question, I follow the Scripture and Tradition in whole, I don’t pull verses out of context.

 

[momor]

Regarding the question about the man who lived a good life and then missed Mass and died before confessing - does he go to Hell?

Our priest, (who is anything but liberal should you wonder) recently spoke to this very issue at Mass last Friday in regard to this reading for the day:

Reading I
Ez 18:21-28
Thus says the Lord GOD:
If the wicked man turns away from all the sins he committed,
if he keeps all my statutes and does what is right and just,
he shall surely live, he shall not die.
None of the crimes he committed shall be remembered against him;
he shall live because of the virtue he has practiced.
Do I indeed derive any pleasure from the death of the wicked?
says the Lord GOD.
Do I not rather rejoice when he turns from his evil way
that he may live?
And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil,
the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does,
can he do this and still live?
None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered,
because he has broken faith and committed sin;
because of this, he shall die.
You say, “The LORD’s way is not fair!”
Hear now, house of Israel:
Is it my way that is unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair?
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies,
it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die.
But if the wicked, turning from the wickedness he has committed,
does what is right and just,
he shall preserve his life;
since he has turned away from all the sins that he committed,
he shall surely live, he shall not die.

His answer to the question: Does he go to hell?
No, No, No, of course not. Jesus is going to judge us on the totality of our life and our heart, not just the last sin we committed before we die.

Kage_ar, can you honestly say that if you were that man who skipped Mass and died instantly that you think Jesus would condemn you to hell? If so, then I think you have entirely missed what Jesus’ message of love and mercy was all about.

 

[spn82756]

Regarding the question about the man who lived a good life and then missed Mass and died before confessing - does he go to Hell?

Our priest, (who is anything but liberal should you wonder) recently spoke to this very issue at Mass last Friday in regard to this reading for the day:

Reading I
Ez 18:21-28
Thus says the Lord GOD:
If the wicked man turns away from all the sins he committed,
if he keeps all my statutes and does what is right and just,
he shall surely live, he shall not die.
None of the crimes he committed shall be remembered against him;
he shall live because of the virtue he has practiced.
Do I indeed derive any pleasure from the death of the wicked?
says the Lord GOD.
Do I not rather rejoice when he turns from his evil way
that he may live?
And if the virtuous man turns from the path of virtue to do evil,
the same kind of abominable things that the wicked man does,
can he do this and still live?
None of his virtuous deeds shall be remembered,
because he has broken faith and committed sin;
because of this, he shall die.
You say, “The LORD’s way is not fair!”
Hear now, house of Israel:
Is it my way that is unfair, or rather, are not your ways unfair?
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity, and dies,
it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die.
But if the wicked, turning from the wickedness he has committed,
does what is right and just,
he shall preserve his life;
since he has turned away from all the sins that he committed,
he shall surely live, he shall not die.

His answer to the question: Does he go to hell?
No, No, No, of course not. Jesus is going to judge us on the totality of our life and our heart, not just the last sin we committed before we die.

Kage_ar, can you honestly say that if you were that man who skipped Mass and died instantly that you think Jesus would condemn you to hell? If so, then I think you have entirely missed what Jesus’ message of love and mercy was all about.

Thank you! You’ve gone a long way to prove what I mean.

 

[kage_ar]

Kage_ar, can you honestly say that if you were that man who skipped Mass and died instantly that you think Jesus would condemn you to hell? If so, then I think you have entirely missed what Jesus’ message of love and mercy was all about.

We as humans cannot know the fate of any person. We can trust the teachings of Christ and His Church.

I know that if I were to die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin, and I did not make an act of perfect contrition, I would go to hell.

From the Catechism:

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1035.htm

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1033.htm

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1452.htm

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

I think we should strive to stay out of mortal sin. We never know the hour of death.

We could very well come up with perfect contrition right before our death. But, also likely, we don’t get an actual chance to do that. Or we might not think of it.

We must try to keep our soul in order. Let’s not presume what the Lord will do.

 

[hellopeople]

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

Seems a bit extreme. According to the church, one wrong move and an unexpected death = hell for eternity. This doesn’t seem to reflect Jesus’ message too well IMO. I always thought that Luther’s assertion that only those that believe in Jesus will go to heaven was extreme, but this seems more extreme. You know what else is bad about this…only Catholics can be guilty of mortal sins, so this only applies to Catholics.

 

[Califman831]

sins against the holy spirit, since there is no forgivness.

 

[kage_ar]

You know what else is bad about this…only Catholics can be guilty of mortal sins, so this only applies to Catholics.

Where did you dream that one up?

 

[spn82756]

I’m going to assume you are doing a Protestant-out-of-context reading of Luke chapter 18? I don’t see a real question, as Jesus did not say that every Christian must sell all they have and give it to the poor. That was His challange to the rich young man.

Let’s read what Jesus did say to his disciples in a bit more context:

**
An official asked him this question, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
19
Jesus answered him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
20
You know the commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not bear false witness; honor your father and your mother.’”
21
And he replied, “All of these I have observed from my youth.”
22
5 When Jesus heard this he said to him, “There is still one thing left for you: sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor, and you will have a treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
23
But when he heard this he became quite sad, for he was very rich.
24
Jesus looked at him (now sad) and said, “How hard it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!
25
For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”

Those who heard this said, “Then who can be saved?”
27
And he said, “What is impossible for human beings is possible for God.”
28
Then Peter said, “We have given up our possessions and followed you.”
29
He said to them, “Amen, I say to you, there is no one who has given up house or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
30
who will not receive (back) an overabundant return in this present age and eternal life in the age to come.”**

To answer you question, I follow the Scripture and Tradition in whole, I don’t pull verses out of context.

As a devout Catholic myself…I can only figure you are trying to make excuses. Let me know when you sell all you own and follow Jesus. Until then…I’m not sure what to say to a fundamentalist “catholic”. Small c intentional.

 

[momor]

We as humans cannot know the fate of any person. We can trust the teachings of Christ and His Church.

I know that if I were to die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin, and I did not make an act of perfect contrition, I would go to hell.

From the Catechism:

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1035.htm

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1033.htm

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: “He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.” Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God’s merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/1452.htm

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.

Kage_ar,
I cannot believe in a loving Jesus and a ‘gotcha’ Jesus at the same time. The Jesus you apparently believe in is someone who can snatch a good, God-fearing person out of this life and send him to hell because he intentionally missed Mass to go to a game and didn’t have time to be sorry about it. Makes it seem almost like Jesus is lurking around waiting for us to screw up so He can say “Gotcha”.

I think you are suffering from Sola Catechism. You have to look at the entirety of Jesus’ message and when you do, what you are saying doesn’t make sense. Sometimes things have to be written as if they are black and white, either/or, so people will get the message and not try to read them like lawyers to find the loopholes. Knowledge and understanding are gifts of the Holy Spirit. If everything was black and white, either/or, we wouldn’t need them.

I think I’ll listen to my priest. I believe he is better acquainted with Jesus.

Blessings to you.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

well, the question was, what has the worst consequences on the soul,
i think the answer to that is pride, being the root of all sin, all sin being some form of pride or being caused by pride,
and also disobedience, which is the direct cause of sin, when we sin we are doing it out of disobedience to God(whether it’s to God Himself, or our superiors/guardians who God also tells us to obey)

but in regards to what sins are most ruining to the soul, i would definitely say sins of the flesh, it was revealed by the Blessed Mother at Fatima to Lucia that sins of the flesh send more souls to hell than any other sin, and we also know by the writings of the saints that sins of the flesh are the hardest to overcome and the most shameful in the eyes of God, and no other sin warps and twists our minds like sins of the flesh do…well, when done willingly anyways, i don’t think people who are trying to be pure will get that way.
sins of the flesh include impure actions, thoughts, touches, gazes, desires, what we speak or hear,
it’s a sin that we really have to guard ourselves from most carefully, especially now when our society literally encourages sins of the flesh onto us as normal and natural…

well…i’ll stop there before i get carried away e,e

Good post .

 

[spn82756]

Kage_ar,
I cannot believe in a loving Jesus and a ‘gotcha’ Jesus at the same time. The Jesus you apparently believe in is someone who can snatch a good, God-fearing person out of this life and send him to hell because he intentionally missed Mass to go to a game and didn’t have time to be sorry about it. Makes it seem almost like Jesus is lurking around waiting for us to screw up so He can say “Gotcha”.

I think you are suffering from Sola Catechism. You have to look at the entirety of Jesus’ message and when you do, what you are saying doesn’t make sense. Sometimes things have to be written as if they are black and white, either/or, so people will get the message and not try to read them like lawyers to find the loopholes. Knowledge and understanding are gifts of the Holy Spirit. If everything was black and white, either/or, we wouldn’t need them.

I think I’ll listen to my priest. I believe he is better acquainted with Jesus.

Blessings to you.

And there you go. Legalism extrordinare .

 

[kage_ar]

As a devout Catholic myself…I can only figure you are trying to make excuses. Let me know when you sell all you own and follow Jesus. Until then…I’m not sure what to say to a fundamentalist “catholic”. Small c intentional.

Scripture is not excuses.

I have lost friends for my Church, given up lucrative jobs, never had a big house or a new car - I don’t even own a computer.

Have you sold all you own?