What is the solution to overpopulation that is not abortion?

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Overpopulation is a myth. In reality, the problem is that people aren’t having enough babies to sustain the population.
 
God and education… is the solution for any problems in the world.

but then again too much education might have people thinking too much and cause more problems… so I’ll stick with God.

He makes His children, trust Him to take care of His children.
 
FiveLinden said:
From my observation as an outsider the pro-life movement is not responding to these changes and is continuing to ‘shoot behind the duck’ (a vivid metaphor I heard today.
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The focus, I believe incorrect, has been on legislating abortion out of existence. This won’t work of course. If a woman wants an abortion she will get one. It might be illegal or she might have to travel, but she will get one. Irish women travelled to England after all when abortion was banned.

I’ve said consistently, here and on other message boards, look to those countries in in Western Europe like Switzerland and the Netherlands who have very low abortion rates and ask why. There are four reason:
  1. Birth control is widely available and most free
  2. Sex Ed is taught very eary in schools
  3. Tax-payer funded programs that support the family like extended parental leave and universal daycare
  4. A public consciousness that openly discusses sexuality and sex ed.
Abortion is a terrible choice and a lousey vehicle to limit population. Invariably - as is the case in China - couples opt for boys and that destabilizes the population. In addition, now that the government has lifted the one child policy, couples have become accustomed to having just one child and don’t want more. Now China has a demographic crisis and will not have enough workers in 20 years.
 
Any overpopulation problem is only going to be temporary and it will ‘auto correct’ itself. One of the two will happen eventually, ending the overpopulation problem:
  1. The country/region becomes richer and the standard of living improves, people will tend to defer marriage to a later date in order to pursue education needed to get a decent job. People will also tend to have fewer children so they can spend more money per child to ensure that their children will receive good education and have a high standard of living. Overpopulation ends. (the ideal way)
  2. The country/region remains poor or becomes even poorer due to overpopulation, and vital resources like food, water and medication becomes scarce. Mortality rate will rise significantly, bringing the population back down to the normal level in a pattern that resembles a J-shaped curve, and overpopulation ends. (the not-so-ideal way)
So either way, the overpopulation problem is only temporary.
 
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Actually the reality is finally sinking in. Most European countries are suffering from a massive population deflation. They are being slowly replaced by immigrants from mostly muslim countries who do not adhere to the concept of overpopulation or contraception or abortion.
And that is not even a “Catholic” position at all, just plain sad facts.

Peace!
 
Freddy said:
Effective contraception would help. But then that’s not a Catholic response.
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China has been teaching NFP - along with a host of other responses, including forced abortions.

China is not teaching NFP because the CCP things the Catholic Church is the cat’s meow; they are teaching it because it works.
 
otjm said:
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Freddy:
Effective contraception would help. But then that’s not a Catholic response.
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China has been teaching NFP - along with a host of other responses, including forced abortions.

China is not teaching NFP because the CCP things the Catholic Church is the cat’s meow; they are teaching it because it works.
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It does. But you obviously have to restrict the number of days you can have sex - which may be up to 60% of the time. If you don’t mind that and other forms of contraception are forbidden to you then it’s a good contraceptive method.
 
Theoretically, if a government wanted to discourage procreation and lower fertility rates, it could do a number of things.

It could encourage and promote divorce, rather than attempt to keep families together. It could foster cultures which either emasculate men, or inflate their macho egos, and rob them of valuable roles in society, making them horrible fathers.

It could promote pornography and sexual exploitation of women in the media, which destroys sexual relationships.

It could promote and encourage sodomy and other forms of sterile sex, giving would-be parents a release without the “risk” of producing offspring.

In addition to destroying fatherhood, it could destroy motherhood as well, by making it uncool, and teaching women that they aren’t really whole until they’ve entered the workforce and had a successful career, or at least banged against the glass ceiling until their hot flashes take charge.

Then it could reach deeper into sexual complementarity and encourage people to pretend they are something else, paying for hormones and mutilation through health insurance and even military plans.

With programs like this and others like them, fertility rates should be reduced to… something manageable… in the blink of an eye. Theoretically.
 
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JerryZ said:
They are being slowly replaced by immigrants from mostly muslim countries who do not adhere to the concept of overpopulation or contraception or abortion.
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You should check the fertility rates of the more ‘European’ Muslim-majority countries (Turkey, Albania, Bosnia) and what’s happening in more industrially advanced Muslim countries (Malaya, Indonesia -even Iran is at replacement level - for example).

It’s not ‘Islam’ that’s creating high birth-rates in high poverty countries, it’s poverty.
 
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Anesti33 said:
… it could destroy motherhood as well, by making it uncool, and teaching women that they aren’t really whole until they’ve entered the workforce and had a successful career, or at least banged against the glass ceiling until their hot flashes take charge.
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Hear that, girls? No career for you, young lady. You don’t want to start emulating Jacinda Ardern or Kamala Harris or umpteen other succesful women (one who gave birth while PM and the other quite possibly one step from running the most powerful country the world has ever seen). You get your husband out to work. It’s a man’s job earning money and a woman’s job to handle the kids and the cooking.
 
I don’t think that was the point he was making. He wasn’t saying women cannot or shouldn’t work. He is saying there is a societal push for women to enter the workforce, have careers, and abandon motherhood. Statistics show women are actually less happy than when they were less involved in the workforce and I believe this is a large reason why. Being a mother or housewife is seen as a negative now. As if work is more valuable than taking care of and raising human life.
 
Riman643 said:
I don’t think that was the point he was making. He wasn’t saying women cannot or shouldn’t work. He is saying there is a societal push for women to enter the workforce, have careers, and abandon motherhood. Statistics show women are actually less happy than when they were less involved in the workforce and I believe this is a large reason why. Being a mother or housewife is seen as a negative now. As if work is more valuable than taking care of and raising human life.
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It certainly seemed to me that that women wanting a career (‘until her hot flushes take charge’) was being portrayed as a negative.
 
Freddy said:
It does. But you obviously have to restrict the number of days you can have sex - which may be up to 60% of the time. If you don’t mind that and other forms of contraception are forbidden to you then it’s a good contraceptive method.
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Well, self control certainly is a Catholic issue; but perhaps other who are not Catholic, or even Christian, can share in it; I did not mention that Mother theresa taught NFP to illiterate Hindus and they had success with it.

And self-giving is not a bad thing, at least with some part of populations.
 
There is over 15 billion acres of livable land. That is more than one acre per person. 33% of the planet is desert and we can work on making that livable land as well. We don’t have an over population problem, we have an under population problem. I myself would love to have 10+ children.
 
Overpopulation isn’t about lack of physical space but about resource availability, and resource availability isn’t just about arable land but the energy and resources needed to maintain a particular lifestyle. How much energy and resources will depend on that type of lifestyle.
 
Well as technology progress the footprint will decrease per person. It really is a non-issue
 
In capitalist economies, technology is used not to decrease footprint but to increase it. It works this way: you use technology to become more efficient, which means you use fewer resources to achieve the same thing, right? But the people investing money in making that technology possible want to maximize their returns, which means the goal of being more efficient is not to produce the same thing with fewer but to produce more.

And given the fact that, according to the WB, 71 pct of people worldwide earn less than $10 daily and have the potential to earn more, then the market for producing goods and services is huge.

Now, if you argue that you don’t want to produce more using that technology because you want to conserve resources, then who will stop investors from leaving you and taking their business elsewhere?
 
otjm said:
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Freddy:
It does. But you obviously have to restrict the number of days you can have sex - which may be up to 60% of the time. If you don’t mind that and other forms of contraception are forbidden to you then it’s a good contraceptive method.
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Well, self control certainly is a Catholic issue; but perhaps other who are not Catholic, or even Christian, can share in it;
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Most of those who are not Catholic have no problem with using other methods of contraception which allow for greater spontaniety when it comes to sex.

NFP is an excellent method to prevent pregnancy when used correctly. It’s around 99% efficient in that case. Unfortunately, in real life situations it rarely is used correctly and the success rate drops to around 70%.
 
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