What is the view of the Jewish Faith towards Christ?

[chosen_people]

לג. הֲשָׁמַע עָם קוֹל אֱ־לֹהִים מְדַבֵּר מִתּוֹךְ הָאֵשׁ כַּאֲשֶׁר שָׁמַעְתָּ אַתָּה וַיֶּחִי:

1. Did ever a people hear God’s voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?

Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 4:33

The ultimate defining act in Judaism are the events of Mt.Sinai. These events in which the Jewish people accept and take upon themselves Torah and the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, occurred before every single member of the nation of Israel. Had the events of Mt. Sinai not occurred then there would have been conflicts in the oral histories of different groups of Jews. There is not a single Jew then or now who does not acknowledge that God was there before the entire Jewish nation at Mt. Sinai. In fact, there is not a single Christian who does not acknowledge this fact. Ask any Bedouin in Sinai and he will gladly point you to Jebeel Mousa (Mt. Moses).

The ultimate defining act of Christianity is the human blood sacrifice of the Jesus god figure for the salvation of humanity. Putting aside how such a concept is a total rejection of the concept and definition of the Jewish God, we may ask ourselves how it comes about that the Jesus figure came to be recognized as a god in Christianity. As opposed to the Jewish God, it appears that Jesus as a god was anything but obvious. Instead of an entire nation, we have twelve disciples. However, even the name of these 12 disciples are not agreed upon in the Christian scriptures. Even the genealogy of the Jesus figure is not agreed upon. If we search the Christian scriptures, we discover that on the one hand Jesus was born no later then 4 b.c.e. (the death of Herod) and on the other hand he was born 10 years later in 6 c.e (the Roman census).

Of the 41 historians of the first and second centuries of the common era who wrote about Judea and Samaria and whose works survive, none apparently knew or realized that a god had come to earth in human form. Non wrote about the apostles or disciples or about all the occurrences and miracles of the Jesus figure. Without any reliable sources for the Jesus figure outside of the Christian scriptures themselves, Christians have turned to a later forgery of certain passages of Josephus and even to trying to interpret Talmudic passages as somehow supporting the historic Jesus figure.

The original Christians, the Ebionites, made up of members of Jesus’ family and disciples, also did not know or acknowledge that Jesus was a god. Neither did the Arian Christians. In fact, it is only when the Roman (Hellenistic) Christians have managed to massacre sufficient numbers of Arian Christians that in 325 c.e. the Jesus figure is finally recognized as a god in Christianity. It is only in 389 c.e. that the “holy ghost” is added and recognized to form the concept of the Christian Trinity.

 

[jmj1984]

לג. הֲשָׁמַע עָם קוֹל אֱ־לֹהִים מְדַבֵּר מִתּוֹךְ הָאֵשׁ כַּאֲשֶׁר שָׁמַעְתָּ אַתָּה וַיֶּחִי:

1. Did ever a people hear God’s voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?

Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 4:33

The ultimate defining act in Judaism are the events of Mt.Sinai. These events in which the Jewish people accept and take upon themselves Torah and the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, occurred before every single member of the nation of Israel. Had the events of Mt. Sinai not occurred then there would have been conflicts in the oral histories of different groups of Jews. There is not a single Jew then or now who does not acknowledge that God was there before the entire Jewish nation at Mt. Sinai. In fact, there is not a single Christian who does not acknowledge this fact. Ask any Bedouin in Sinai and he will gladly point you to Jebeel Mousa (Mt. Moses).

The ultimate defining act of Christianity is the human blood sacrifice of the Jesus god figure for the salvation of humanity. Putting aside how such a concept is a total rejection of the concept and definition of the Jewish God, we may ask ourselves how it comes about that the Jesus figure came to be recognized as a god in Christianity. As opposed to the Jewish God, it appears that Jesus as a god was anything but obvious. Instead of an entire nation, we have twelve disciples. However, even the name of these 12 disciples are not agreed upon in the Christian scriptures. Even the genealogy of the Jesus figure is not agreed upon. If we search the Christian scriptures, we discover that on the one hand Jesus was born no later then 4 b.c.e. (the death of Herod) and on the other hand he was born 10 years later in 6 c.e (the Roman census).

Of the 41 historians of the first and second centuries of the common era who wrote about Judea and Samaria and whose works survive, none apparently knew or realized that a god had come to earth in human form. Non wrote about the apostles or disciples or about all the occurrences and miracles of the Jesus figure. Without any reliable sources for the Jesus figure outside of the Christian scriptures themselves, Christians have turned to a later forgery of certain passages of Josephus and even to trying to interpret Talmudic passages as somehow supporting the historic Jesus figure.

The original Christians, the Ebionites, made up of members of Jesus’ family and disciples, also did not know or acknowledge that Jesus was a god. Neither did the Arian Christians. In fact, it is only when the Roman (Hellenistic) Christians have managed to massacre sufficient numbers of Arian Christians that in 325 c.e. the Jesus figure is finally recognized as a god in Christianity. It is only in 389 c.e. that the “holy ghost” is added and recognized to form the concept of the Christian Trinity.

I’d rather this didn’t descend into a 'Christianity has nothing to do with judaism and is wrong’ thread

 

[meltzerboy]

I’d rather this didn’t descend into a 'Christianity has nothing to do with judaism and is wrong’ thread

I agree with you that it would be better not to transform this discussion into an argumentative debate concerning which religion is right and which is wrong. On the other hand, you are asking for the view of the Jewish faith towards Christ. Since those of the Jewish faith believe they hold the essential truth about the nature of G-d–inasmuch as any religion can fathom the infinite mystery of G-d–as a unique spiritual Unity rather than a Triune Entity who manifested Himself as a corporeal Being, it is not surprising that evidence be brought to bear, as chosen people has done, regarding the validity of Jesus’ claim to be G-d. This factors into the Jewish scholarly view of Jesus, and I’m sure Christian scholars have evidence to refute this view. The moral: be careful what you wish for!

 

[KathleenGee]

On the light side here, Meltzerboy, finally one of my Jewish clients revealed to me their genuine tastes in other people.

They like Italians and Irish. One client laughed how Dublin had a Jewish mayor. I told her we don’t care about ethnic backgrounds…just be fair…and happy.

Well, now in Ireland an Irishman getting his own Menorah is the big rage, candles and all.

 

[jmj1984]

I agree with you that it would be better not to transform this discussion into an argumentative debate concerning which religion is right and which is wrong. On the other hand, you are asking for the view of the Jewish faith towards Christ. Since those of the Jewish faith believe they hold the essential truth about the nature of G-d–inasmuch as any religion can fathom the infinite mystery of G-d–as a unique spiritual Unity rather than a Triune Entity who manifested Himself as a corporeal Being, it is not surprising that evidence be brought to bear, as chosen people has done, regarding the validity of Jesus’ claim to be G-d. This factors into the Jewish scholarly view of Jesus, and I’m sure Christian scholars have evidence to refute this view. The moral: be careful what you wish for!

True, I should have factored that in. Well hopefully I and others will learn something from this thread

 

[MontChevalier]

לג. הֲשָׁמַע עָם קוֹל אֱ־לֹהִים מְדַבֵּר מִתּוֹךְ הָאֵשׁ כַּאֲשֶׁר שָׁמַעְתָּ אַתָּה וַיֶּחִי:

1. Did ever a people hear God’s voice speaking out of the midst of the fire as you have heard, and live?

Devarim - Deuteronomy - Chapter 4:33

The ultimate defining act in Judaism are the events of Mt.Sinai. These events in which the Jewish people accept and take upon themselves Torah and the eternal covenant between God and the Jewish people, occurred before every single member of the nation of Israel. Had the events of Mt. Sinai not occurred then there would have been conflicts in the oral histories of different groups of Jews. There is not a single Jew then or now who does not acknowledge that God was there before the entire Jewish nation at Mt. Sinai. In fact, there is not a single Christian who does not acknowledge this fact. Ask any Bedouin in Sinai and he will gladly point you to Jebeel Mousa (Mt. Moses).

The ultimate defining act of Christianity is the human blood sacrifice of the Jesus god figure for the salvation of humanity. Putting aside how such a concept is a total rejection of the concept and definition of the Jewish God, we may ask ourselves how it comes about that the Jesus figure came to be recognized as a god in Christianity. As opposed to the Jewish God, it appears that Jesus as a god was anything but obvious. Instead of an entire nation, we have twelve disciples. However, even the name of these 12 disciples are not agreed upon in the Christian scriptures. Even the genealogy of the Jesus figure is not agreed upon. If we search the Christian scriptures, we discover that on the one hand Jesus was born no later then 4 b.c.e. (the death of Herod) and on the other hand he was born 10 years later in 6 c.e (the Roman census).

Of the 41 historians of the first and second centuries of the common era who wrote about Judea and Samaria and whose works survive, none apparently knew or realized that a god had come to earth in human form. Non wrote about the apostles or disciples or about all the occurrences and miracles of the Jesus figure. Without any reliable sources for the Jesus figure outside of the Christian scriptures themselves, Christians have turned to a later forgery of certain passages of Josephus and even to trying to interpret Talmudic passages as somehow supporting the historic Jesus figure.

The original Christians, the Ebionites, made up of members of Jesus’ family and disciples, also did not know or acknowledge that Jesus was a god. Neither did the Arian Christians. In fact, it is only when the Roman (Hellenistic) Christians have managed to massacre sufficient numbers of Arian Christians that in 325 c.e. the Jesus figure is finally recognized as a god in Christianity. It is only in 389 c.e. that the “holy ghost” is added and recognized to form the concept of the Christian Trinity.

Is this what all Jews believe or is it just you individually? It would help in my understanding the modern Jewish mindset. It’s still something that peaks my interest, after all.

-MontChevalier

 

[Monica4316]

In Gittin 56b, 57a a story is mentioned in which Onkelos -intent on converting to Judaism- summons up the spirit of Yeshu. He describes his punishment in the afterlife as boiling in excrement. Relevant passages from the Talmud that scholars address in this context include:[86]

Babylonin Gittin 57a – “he went and brought up Jesus the Nazarene” (Editions or MSs: Vatican 130)

The complete passage from the 1935 Soncino edition is:

Onkelos son of Kolonikos … went and raised Titus from the dead by magical arts, and asked him; 'Who is most in repute in the [other] world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining them? He said: Their observances are burdensome and you will not be able to carry them out. Go and attack them in that world and you will be at the top as it is written, Her adversaries are become the head etc.; whoever harasses Israel becomes head. He asked him: What is your punishment [in the other world]? He replied: What I decreed for myself. Every day my ashes are collected and sentence is passed on me and I am burnt and my ashes are scattered over the seven seas. He then went and raised Balaam by incantations. He asked him: Who is in repute in the other world? He replied: Israel. What then, he said, about joining them? He replied: Thou shalt not seek their peace nor their prosperity all thy days for ever. He then asked: What is your punishment? He replied: With boiling hot semen. He then went and raised by incantations Jesus [in Vilna edition: “the sinners of Israel”; “Jesus” appears in Munich 95 and Vatican 130, 140 manuscripts]. He asked them: Who is in repute in the other world? They replied: Israel. What about joining them? They replied: Seek their welfare, seek not their harm. Whoever touches them touches the apple of his eye. He said: What is your punishment? They replied: With boiling hot excrement, since a Master has said: Whoever mocks at the words of the Sages is punished with boiling hot excrement. Observe the difference between the sinners of Israel and the prophets of the other nations who worship idols. It has been taught: Note from this incident how serious a thing it is to put a man to shame, for God espoused the cause of Bar Kamza and destroyed His House and burnt His Temple.
—Babylonian Talmud, Gittin 56b-57a

If this is really what it says in the Talmud, - well we know that if any “spirit” says that Jesus is in hell, we know that “spirit” is a demon! Especially if they were summoned using “magical arts”! doesn’t that go against God’s commandments?

how can anyone say this about Jesus Christ

I hope this is not what it really says in the Talmud!

 

[meltzerboy]

Not only out of context, but sheer fabrication and antisemitism.

 

[MrSylvester]

I’m not certain Jesus claims to be the promised messiah. The scriptures like to dance around the issue and hint at it, but neither Jesus nor the authors of the New Testament say explicitly that he is the messiah.

Conor, I don’t mean to sound mean but, ow. Ow! That was so, undescrible that its actually hurting me, its actually physically hurting me! To quote C.S Lewis:

*I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would be either a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
*

 

[scottmac]

I have never in my 40 plus years ever had a clear answer or one that I can understand anyway on why the jewish population rejects Jesus Christ. I find it so very sad.

All I have ever heard is that they think he is not the messiah.

But no one has ever been able to explain it to me in DUMMIE terms.

But I always find it interesting that there are jewish people out there who put up Christmas trees. shrugs

 

[MrSylvester]

Not only out of context, but sheer fabrication and antisemitism.

Avoid at all costs the Talmud unmasked. It makes up entire tractates that don’t exist. No Pranaitis, the Talmud doesn’t say that Jews should clean vessels touched by Christians a billion times (it does however say that gentiles are aliens, Jews are dragon-born, giving them the ability to make powerful shouts, theyreby making them a better race, and that despite Christians being inferior, at least not all of them made Batman and Robin. Ok, I just made that all up… but seriously, the Bible condemns Batman and Robin as the worst and most sinful thing ever and that its very name is the essence of pure evil.)

Ok, jokes aside meltzerboy, I studied a little bit of Judaism and not meaning to offend but I found it really, really unconvincing. Also, yes this is nitpicking but the Talmud is very difficult to read. I use the Soncino edition by the way as they say its the best translation. What do you use? Found here: come-and-hear.com/talmud/

According to a Jewish website, the Talmud really does say that a Rabbi defeated God in a debate: jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Halakha_&aggadata&_midrash.html

To us, it makes no. sense. at. all. The diffirence betwee Moses, Abraham, Hannah and other people who spoke with God and won was that they weren’t engaging in a debate, they just tried to convince Him to grant them their wishes and to have mercy.

 

[MorningSong51]

Is this what all Jews believe or is it just you individually? It would help in my understanding the modern Jewish mindset. It’s still something that peaks my interest, after all.

-MontChevalier

…mine too:ehh:, considering that the poster brought up the Exodus and also the fact of what some believe to be true according to background researchers:console:

 

[MorningSong51]

MrSylvester:
Hi Mr Sylvester:

Your statements are not necessarily true. The Patriarch did not win a debate with God, that would not be accurate, at all. I’m familiar with some of the passages and the prophets that you have mentioned and also their prayers. These prayers are written in Daniel as they are in Esther and said within Mordecai prayer. You could say the same about Nehemiah.

The Talmud - and depending on which version (The Babylonian Talmud and commentaries and the Jerusalem Talmud and commentaries) that you’re using is an accumulation of past Rabbi scholars and their discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, philosophy, customs and history. Remember! - The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism’s Oral Law; and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), a discussion of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Tanakh.

Another thing - Meltzerboy, is a reform Jew who does not hold to the Oral traditions. Rabbinic Judaism holds that God revealed his laws and commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai in the form of both the Written and Oral Torah. This assertion was historically challenged by the Karaites, a movement that flourished in the medieval period, which retains several thousand followers today and maintains that only the Written Torah was revealed.

The feature which distinguished Rabbinic Judaism has been the emphasis placed on the Oral Law or Oral Torah. The authority for that position has been the insistence by the Rabbis that the oral law was transmitted to Moses at Mount Sinai at the same time as the written law, the Torah, and that the oral law has been transmitted from generation to generation since. The Talmud is said to be a codification of the oral law, and is thereby just as binding as the Torah itself. As an example, in Exodus 18 and Numbers 11 of the Bible is cited to show that Moses appointed elders to govern with him and to judge disputes, imparting to them details and guidance of how to interpret the revelations from God while carrying out their duties.

The oral law was subsequently codified in the Mishna and Gemarah, and is interpreted in Rabbinic literature detailing subsequent rabbinic decisions and writings. Rabbinic Jewish literature is predicated on the belief that the Written Law cannot be properly understood without recourse to the Oral Law (the Mishnah).

Much Rabbinic Jewish literature concerns specifying what behavior is sanctioned by the law; this body of interpretations is called halakha (the way).

Reform Jews do not generally treat halakha as binding.

Rabbinic commentaries on the Mishnah over the next three centuries were redacted as the Gemara, which, coupled with the Mishnah, comprise the Talmud.

Unlike the Talmud the majority of the Mishnah is written in Hebrew, while the Talmuds are written in Judeao-Aramaic, European scholars over the past 1,000 years have termed this ‘Mishnaic Hebrew’.

The Mishnah reflects debates between 70-200 CE by the group of rabbinic sages known as the Tannaim.[5] The Mishnah teaches the oral traditions by example, presenting actual cases being brought to judgment, usually along with the debate on the matter and the judgment that was given by a wise and notable rabbi based on the halakha, Mitzvot, and spirit of the teaching (“Torah”) that guided his sentencing. In this way, it brings to everyday reality the practice of the mitzvot as presented in the Bible, and aimed to cover all aspects of human living, serve as an example for future judgments, and, most important, demonstrate pragmatic exercise of the Biblical laws, which was much needed at the time when the Second Temple was destroyed (70 AD). The Mishnah does not claim to be the development of new laws, but rather the collection of existing traditions.

The prayers or petitions were stated to God recalling the past history of the Jewish people and how God is merciful and compassionate, even despite their sins. The prayer in Nehemiah 1, is so very important because he is bringing up the fact that God is unchanging in his mercy on those who keep the commandments - and also those who return back - as the verse states, "9. And if you return to Me and keep My commandments and perform them-if your exile is at the end of the heaven, from there I shall gather them, and I shall bring them to the place that I chose to cause My Name to rest there.’ (I’m going to quote from the Tanakh)

Nehemiah 1:5. And I said, "I beseech You, O Lord God of heaven, the great and awesome God, Who keeps the Covenant and loving-kindness to those who love Him and to those who keep His commandments.6. Let Your ear now be attentive and Your eyes open to listen to the prayer of Your servant, which I pray before You today, day and night, concerning the Children of Israel, Your servants, and I confess the sins of the Children of Israel, which we sinned against You; and I and my father’s house have sinned.

Daniel 2:20. Daniel spoke up and said, "May the Name of God be blessed from everlasting even to everlasting, to Whom are wisdom and might. 21. And He changes the times and the seasons, He removes kings and sets up kings; He grants wisdom to the wise and knowledge to those who know understanding.

See Daniel 9:19. O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do, do not delay; for Your sake, my God, for Your Name is called upon Your city and upon Your people."

1 Samuel 2:6 “The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up. 7 The LORD sends poverty and wealth; he humbles and he exalts. He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor.

 

[meltzerboy]

I have never in my 40 plus years ever had a clear answer or one that I can understand anyway on why the jewish population rejects Jesus Christ. I find it so very sad.

All I have ever heard is that they think he is not the messiah.

But no one has ever been able to explain it to me in DUMMIE terms.

But I always find it interesting that there are jewish people out there who put up Christmas trees. shrugs

In plain language then, the Jewish people reject Jesus as the Messiah for two main reasons, as well as several others. One major issue is that the Messiah was not meant to be of divine origin, but human, and more of a warrior hero than a priestly sort. A second stumbling block is that Jesus did not fulfill the mission attributed by prophecy to the Messiah. This mission is threefold: the advent of peace on Earth between the nations, the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Israel, and the realization of the moral validity and truth of the Torah Law by the peoples of the world. None of these events occurred. Now, as another Forum member has suggested to me, Jesus may have fulfilled prophecy in a different way: namely, the advent of inner peace by means of redemption from sin, the establishment of the new Temple and new Israel in the form of the Church as His bride, and the fulfillment of the Law in His own person. Whether this constitutes true fulfillment of prophecy seems to depend in part on how literal or figurative one’s interpretation of prophecy is. There are, in addition, other points of contention regarding the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah based on Jewish teaching. One is the issue of His unorthodox genealogy, which has been debated for centuries. Another is the striking parallel between the circumstances of Jesus’ birth (Virgin Mother, three wise men, manger), life, death, resurrection, and other elements–for example, His riding on a donkey–to Pagan concepts and stories. In this regard, I’ve read some informative rebuttals made by Christian apologists, who point out significant differences between the events of Jesus’ birth, life, death, and resurrection from those found in Paganism. Another problem is the concept of vicarious atonement for sin, which was largely unacceptable according to Jewish Law, coupled with the Law’s teaching that human sacrifice is an abomination. The Jewish remedy for sin is primarily individual atonement. And finally, the concept of Savior, which was and is thought to be unnecessary and not biblical according to the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, the idea of a Savior is not in keeping with the lack of Jewish focus on Hell (as another CAF Jewish member has asked: we are saved from what?) as well as the real emphasis on living a moral life in the here and now rather than being preoccupied with salvation and Heaven. I’m not suggesting that modern Jews, who are mainly in the Pharisaic tradition, don’t believe in Heaven; however, this concern does not constitute the principal thrust of the religion. Well, there’s your Dummies mini-course on some of the ideas concerning Judaism’s view of Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[MorningSong51]

I’d rather this didn’t descend into a 'Christianity has nothing to do with judaism and is wrong’ thread

I second that motion…

 

[MorningSong51]

In plain language then, the Jewish people reject Jesus as the Messiah for two main reasons, as well as several others. One major issue is that the Messiah was not meant to be of divine origin, but human, and more of a warrior hero than a priestly sort. A second stumbling block is that Jesus did not fulfill the mission attributed by prophecy to the Messiah. This mission is threefold: the advent of peace on Earth between the nations, the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Israel, and the realization of the moral validity and truth of the Torah Law by the peoples of the world. None of these events occurred. Now, as another Forum member has suggested to me, Jesus may have fulfilled prophecy in a different way: namely, the advent of inner peace by means of redemption from sin, the establishment of the new Temple and new Israel in the form of the Church as His bride, and the fulfillment of the Law in His own person. Whether this constitutes true fulfillment of prophecy seems to depend in part on how literal or figurative one’s interpretation of prophecy is. There are, in addition, other points of contention regarding the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah based on Jewish teaching. One is the issue of His unorthodox genealogy, which has been debated for centuries. Another is the striking parallel between the circumstances of Jesus’ birth (Virgin Mother, three wise men, manger), life, death, resurrection, and other elements–for example, His riding on a donkey–to Pagan concepts and stories. In this regard, I’ve read some informative rebuttals made by Christian apologists, who point out significant differences between the events of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection from those found in Paganism. Another problem is the concept of vicarious atonement for sin, which was largely unacceptable according to Jewish Law, coupled with the Law’s teaching that human sacrifice is an abomination. The Jewish remedy for sin is primarily individual atonement. And finally, the concept of Savior, which was and is thought to be unnecessary and not biblical according to the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, the idea of a Savior is not in keeping with the lack of Jewish focus on Hell (as another CAF Jewish member has asked: we are saved from what?) as well as the real emphasis on living a moral life in the here and now rather than being preoccupied with salvation and Heaven. I’m not suggesting that modern Jews, who are mainly in the Pharisaic tradition, don’t believe in Heaven; however, this concern does not constitute the principal thrust of the religion. Well, there’s your Dummies mini-course on some of the ideas concerning Judaism’s view of Jesus as the Messiah.

You should write a book…

 

[meltzerboy]

You should write a book…

LOL You think so? There are good arguments on all sides. Naturally, I am biased, but am also a truth-seeker like you, Mary.

 

[Bezant]

LOL You think so? There are good arguments on all sides. Naturally, I am biased, but am also a truth-seeker like you, Mary.

I agree with Mary, and I think you would be a good person to present both sides. Unfortunately there’s very little material presenting both sides with equal scholarship.

 

[MorningSong51]

LOL You think so? There are good arguments on all sides. Naturally, I am biased, but am also a truth-seeker like you, Mary.

I wrote for permission on showing some biblical pictures under my profile and the woman that wrote me back asked what my budget was? - budget? am I suppose to have a budget? I wrote her back and told her that I would list her website for any interested parties - since there are so many people who are viewing my profile w/o anything in my storage cabinet, so…I thought, my viewers might be like to see some art work - look under my profile, Meltzerboy.

If you write the book, I have some pictures you might like… it might give a budget!

 

[meltzerboy]

I agree with Mary, and I think you would be a good person to present both sides. Unfortunately there’s very little material presenting both sides with equal scholarship.

Thanks, Bezant. Sometimes I think of Judaism and Christianity in the way I once heard a Protestant minister compare free will and predestination: as parallel lines that intersect at the point of infinity.

In any case, before writing the book, I have to finish grading final exams!