V
VociMike
Guest
Thread title asks it all.
OK, so how does one engaged in “works salvation” avoid or reject the grace of Christ? Is that the work involved, the work of rejecting Christ?I think it means you can justify yourself before God without the grace of Jesus Christ. Because this can’t be done, trying to do so will leave you unjustified and damned in the end.
So “works salvation” means that we think we are God?I think it essentially boils down to pride, believing that anything you do could possibly compare to what Jesus has already done.
A “works alone” salvation would mean something more along the lines of “we don’t think we need God.”So “works salvation” means that we think we are God?
For example, you could figure you’re good enough already and trust your own wisdom rather than putting your faith in God’s word and approaching the grace of God in the waters of Holy Baptism.OK, so how does one engaged in “works salvation” avoid or reject the grace of Christ? Is that the work involved, the work of rejecting Christ?
OK, so anybody who thinks they do need God cannot possibly be guilty of works (alone) salvation? Seems reasonable.A “works alone” salvation would mean something more along the lines of “we don’t think we need God.”
Ah, so anybody who has faith in God and is baptized cannot be guilty of “works salvation”?For example, you could figure you’re good enough already and trust your own wisdom rather than putting your faith in God’s word and approaching the grace of God in the waters of Holy Baptism.
That makes me think some people have been sleeping through their history classes. For about 500 years.What is works salvation? A heresy called Pelagianism which was condemned by the Catholic Church in the 5th century.
It means different things to different Protestants. Martin Luther condemned “works salvation”, but he believed in baptismal regeneration. However, many Protestants claim that believing in baptismal regeneration is “works salvation.” Calvinists claim that believing in free will is believing in “works salvation” since anything done by humans to gain salvation - even faith - is a “work.” All Armianians believe in justification by faith alone. But OSAS Arminians accuse Arminians who don’t believe in OSAS of believing in “works salvation.” If you can lose salvation through sin - a bad “work” - then you don’t really believe in justification by faith alone.Thread title asks it all.
So it sounds like just about everybody is guilty then.It means different things to different Protestants. Martin Luther condemned “works salvation”, but he believed in baptismal regeneration. However, many Protestants claim that believing in baptismal regeneration is “works salvation.” Calvinists claim that believing in free will is believing in “works salvation” since anything done by humans to gain salvation - even faith - is a “work.” All Armianians believe in justification by faith alone. But OSAS Arminians accuse Arminians who don’t believe in OSAS of believing in “works salvation.” If you can lose salvation through sin - a bad “work” - then you don’t really believe in justification by faith alone.
I think there are two things to distinguish in “works salvation”.Thread title asks it all.
Most anti-Catholic Christians have been taught that the entire sacramental life is “works based”. Since sacraments are participitive, in the sense that people have a part, and must DO certain things in order to receive fullness of grace, they are considered “works of men”.So when other Christians accuse us of believing in works, this is what they mean…we think we can attain our own salvation without Christ? Oh. Now I get it. We don’t do that.
I couldn’t figure out what they had against doing nice stuff. Feed the poor sounds like a good work to me, and I didn’t think I should go to hell for doing it.
I’m finding out more and more that I don’t have a clue about non-Catholic Christians.
I believe they have the testimony of Jesus on this point:Calvinists claim that believing in free will is believing in “works salvation” since anything done by humans to gain salvation - even faith - is a “work.”
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of many Protestants. They see the Sermon on the Mount as a tool to show how sinful they are and how much they need Jesus…and in doing so turn the clear teachings of Jesus into empty rhetoric.But, one must come to grips with their own sinfulness (See the Beatitudes) and fall before the Lord in humility and repentance and believe the gospel - to the death.