What is works salvation and why will it send people to hell?

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Works salvation is where one who…in the flesh, comes to the law of God and says - I can do that!! They are like the rich young ruler that says - I have done all these things from my youth rather than taking the full brunt of the law on the chin and saying - I am guilty!!
Catholics recite the Confiteor at Mass, confessing their guilt. Perhaps you didn’t know that.
If we are trying to keep a list of rules to attain justification…whatever it might be…you can serve in the mission in the flesh - you can give money in the flesh…for your own glory or for any other selfish motive. Then, afterwards say - se , I have fed the poor and clothed the naked…justify me - vindicate me!
Who are these mythical people?
But, one must come to grips with their own sinfulness (See the Beatitudes) and fall before the Lord in humility and repentance and believe the gospel - to the death.
Catholics believe the gospel.

So I still don’t see how Catholics are accused of works salvation. The more explanations I read, the more embarrassed I am for those who put their vast ignorance of Catholicism on public display by claiming it has anything to do with works salvation.
 
I simply answered your question…I am not quite sure why you are responding as you are. The Pharisees are not mythical.
 
I simply answered your question…I am not quite sure why you are responding as you are. The Pharisees are not mythical.
Are the Pharisees an issue today? Are they around today?

BTW, I wasn’t accusing you of vast ignorance, since, as you say, you were just answering my question. I was accusing of vast ignorance those who claim that Catholics are somehow involved in “works salvation”. The explanations given (including by yourself) make it clear that nobody with the slightest understanding of Catholicism could make such a charge.
 
I’m finding out more and more that I don’t have a clue about non-Catholic Christians.
I’m finding out more and more that non-Catholic Christians hardly have a prayer in the phrase “I believe” while “protesting” against God and His Church.

James
 
That makes me think some people have been sleeping through their history classes. For about 500 years.
This is not quite accurate. Some people just decided about 500 years ago to revise history and go to a home school system and learn it through osmosis by sleeping with a bible under their pillows at night.😉

James
 
What is works salvation…?
Works salvation is whenever someone asks, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

Works salvation is when you have a checklist of things that must be done to get to heaven.

It is the spirit of works salvation that one asks, “is baptism necessary for eternal life?”

Instead, baptism should be seen for what it is, a free gift from God as a means for our salvation.
why will it send people to hell?
I don’t know that it does or doesn’t. It is just so unfortunate when works salvation is preached which hides the true gospel of Jesus. …the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Take these words literally, my friend.
 
How do they argue away James’ statement that faith without works is useless?
He goes on to say show me your faith apart from works and I will show you my faith through my works. How can the anti-Catholics argue with that?
 
Works salvation is whenever someone asks, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Well, the logical alternative is to figure “I don’t have to do anything to inherit eternal life.” Is that the proper Christian attitude? Oh, wait - being Christian presumably means that one is doing something. So really, I should have asked, is that the proper attitude for anybody wanting to be saved, Christian or not?

BTW, I noticed you emphasized the free gift of salvation. Are there people out there who actually believe they need to pay for their salvation?
 
Works salvation is whenever someone asks, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

It is just so unfortunate when works salvation is preached which hides the true gospel of Jesus.
BTW, when Christ was asked this exact question, did he remark that the question was just so unfortunate?
 
Are the Pharisees an issue today? Are they around today?
I think there are plenty of them, yes. Some of them also believe they are Catholic, because they don’t understand Catholic Teachings.
 
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VociMike:
Thread title asks it all.
Works salvation is the idea that works are necessary for salvation; that is, that the sacrifice of Christ, in and of itself, without human works, saves no one. If one asserts that Christ’s work is dependent upon the actions of men, and that His sacrifice has merely made a way of salvation available that must include human works for the sacrifice to be effective, that is “works-salvation.” God’s grace and mercy may be espoused in the teaching as well, however, it is still called “works-salvation.”
 
Works salvation is the idea that works are necessary for salvation; that is, that the sacrifice of Christ, in and of itself, without human works, saves no one. If one asserts that Christ’s work is dependent upon the actions of men, and that His sacrifice has merely made a way of salvation available that must include human works for the sacrifice to be effective, that is “works-salvation.” God’s grace and mercy may be espoused in the teaching as well, however, it is still called “works-salvation.”
So a person does not need to do anything to be saved?

And BTW, who teaches that human works are necessary to save every person who is saved? I’ve never heard such a theory in all my years.
 
Works salvation is the idea that works are necessary for salvation; that is, that the sacrifice of Christ, in and of itself, without human works, saves no one.
There are several problems with this definition, beginning with the fact that it defines absolutely no one.

We know that the sacrifice of Christ is completely efficacious, apart from anything that people do. However, if one chooses not to avail oneself of the benefits of that work, then the work will not benefit them, as scripture states “Christ is of no avail”. People’s refusal to accept the work of Christ does not nullify His work. For example, Judas’ betrayal of Jesus does not nullify His sacrifice. Another example are the Pharisees and Lawyers who rejected HIm:

Luke 7:30
30 but the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected the purpose of God for themselves,

God desires for all men to be saved, and come to the knowlege of the truth. He has made man in His image and likeness, and as such, man has free will. Man can choose not to respond to the call, and reject His purpose for themselves. None of this will nullify the work Jesus did on the cross.
If one asserts that Christ’s work is dependent upon the actions of men, and that His sacrifice has merely made a way of salvation available that must include human works for the sacrifice to be effective, that is “works-salvation.” God’s grace and mercy may be espoused in the teaching as well, however, it is still called “works-salvation.”
This brings us to the other problem with such a formulation. Human action IS required for one to avail oneself of His finished work on the cross. However, choosing to embrace the grace provided is categorically different than the defintion of “works based salvation” that you give. Salvation is based on grace, not works, and occurs through faith working through love. It is not the actions, devioid of grace and faith, that save. For by works of the law no one can be saved.
 
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VociMike:
So a person does not need to do anything to be saved?
Salvation is all of God (cf 1 Cor 1:30; Eph 2:1-5; Col 2:13ff; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3, et. al.); what else must one do in addition to what God has already done?
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VociMike:
And BTW, who teaches that human works are necessary to save every person who is saved? I’ve never heard such a theory in all my years.
I don’t know; but, ISTM, that any denomination that says, OTOH, that certain people must do good works to be saved, and then says, OTOH, that all of the others, or certain ones of all the others, don’t have to do anything to be saved, is confused.
 
Salvation is all of God (cf 1 Cor 1:30; Eph 2:1-5; Col 2:13ff; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet 1:3, et. al.); what else must one do in addition to what God has already done?
I’m just confused. When Christ was asked “what must I do to inherit eternal life”, why didn’t he just say “Nothing!”? That would have been so short and so sweet. But instead Jesus led 2000 years of Christians astray by answering with a list of things to do. 🤷
 
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VociMike:
I’m just confused. When Christ was asked “what must I do to inherit eternal life”, why didn’t he just say “Nothing!”? That would have been so short and so sweet. But instead Jesus led 2000 years of Christians astray by answering with a list of things to do.
Jesus never completely revealed everything concerning Himself, or His salvation while
here on earth; the rest was fleshed out after He ascended into heaven, and sent the “helper”
(cf Jn 16:13).

If you’ve kept the commandments perfectly “from your youth,” as the young man in the verse you cite claimed he did, then you only lack one thing, as he did—sell all that you have and distribute it to the poor.

However, it must be remembered as well, that there is present within every human being, redeemed, and unredeemed alike, the principle of evil, and sin (Rom 7:21,23); therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that the rich young ruler deceived himself when he claimed to have kept all of the commandments of God from his youth (cf Heb 4:15).

(P.S. Jesus doesn’t need to lead anyone astray; we do that quite well all on our own (cf Is 53:6).
 
I’m just confused. When Christ was asked “what must I do to inherit eternal life”, why didn’t he just say “Nothing!”? That would have been so short and so sweet. But instead Jesus led 2000 years of Christians astray by answering with a list of things to do. 🤷
I know,right? Why should the Bible have even been written. All that is needed is a few bumper stickers that says “Believe in Jesus,Do nothing,Enter Heaven”.

When you put it to certain protestants that way they will respond in various ways. I know I did. If you are saved by faith alone why pray for forgiveness if you sin later in your Christian walk? What would be the point if Faith is all you need? Today I have Faith,yet I am still capable of sinning. I know I have already sinned today. Does that mean I really don’t have Faith?
 
Works salvation is where one who…in the flesh, comes to the law of God and says - I can do that!! They are like the rich young ruler that says - I have done all these things from my youth rather than taking the full brunt of the law on the chin and saying - I am guilty!!

If we are trying to keep a list of rules to attain justification…whatever it might be…you can serve in the mission in the flesh - you can give money in the flesh…for your own glory or for any other selfish motive. Then, afterwards say - se , I have fed the poor and clothed the naked…justify me - vindicate me!

But, one must come to grips with their own sinfulness (See the Beatitudes) and fall before the Lord in humility and repentance and believe the gospel - to the death.

C2C

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. (Galatians 5:6 NAS95)

Whatever is not of faith in sin.
Of all of the explanations of “works salvation” presented by Protestants in this thread, this is the most accurate. Man in the flesh cannot please God. If we believe that we can enter into a right relationship with God on the basis of works (i.e. “I did this amount of works, so now make me righteous and include me in the community of the righteous”), then that is “works salvation.” Catholicism does not teach “works salvation” and this is best demonstrated by the Church’s teachings on predestination:

We shall return to this point. But in any case, from this minimum admitted by all we get three propositions to which all Catholic theologians subscribe. They are: (1) Predestination to the first grace is not because God foresaw our naturally good works, nor is the beginning of salutary acts due to natural causes; (2) predestination to glory is not because God foresaw we would continue in the performance of supernaturally meritorious acts apart from the special gift of final perseverance; (3) complete predestination, in so far as it comprises the whole series of graces from the first up to glorification, is gratuitous or previous to foreseen merits.

thesumma.info/predestination/predestination4.php

Complete predestination (grace to glory) is independent of any merit. Moreover, the gift of final perseverance (i.e. perseverance to the end) is given by God and cannot be merited. All rewards/ merits depend on this gift. Therefore, as Saint Augustine stated, when God rewards our merits, He is crowning His own gifts. There is nothing that we have that we have not received from Him and we can do nothing apart from God’s grace.

Moreover, the Catholic concept of “merit” is not based on a “debtor” system. Rather, its based on God’s gracious promises. Calvinists emphasize that they believe that salvation is a completely free gift. But they also believe in the concept of reward - since it is clearly taught in the Bible. However, if they really think about it, they also believe that these rewards are also gifts. Why? For one, they believe everything is decreed by God from all eternity. Therefore, any reward that we receive has also been decreed by Him and is not purely based in human effort. He also decreed the means by which that person would attain that reward. In other words, just like salvation, God decrees both the end and the means that accomplish that end. So a reward is also, in essence, a gift. If God had not freely decreed the means and the end - independent of any foreseen merit - then we would never be rewarded.

Catholics believe that our rewards are also gifts. They are rooted in the free gift of final perseverance and are based on the gracious promises of God. In a “debtor” system of salvation, God is obligated by man to show favor and grant His mercy in exchange - or as payment - for the works performed by man. In other words, the Divine will is completely made subject to the will of man. In the Catholic understanding of merit, it is God who obligates Himself to reward through His gracious promises.

Proverbs 19:17

17One who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD,
And He will repay him for his good deed
.

This decision to reward is purely based on His sovereign choice. If He is a debtor - as in Proverbs 19:17 - that is because He has freely chosen to be a debtor. Moreover, only those to whom He freely gives the final gift of perseverance will he reward. Apart from this free gift, there is no merit deserving of any reward.

God Bless,
Michael
 
I’m just confused. When Christ was asked “what must I do to inherit eternal life”, why didn’t he just say “Nothing!”? That would have been so short and so sweet. But instead Jesus led 2000 years of Christians astray by answering with a list of things to do. 🤷
Vocimike, Jesus can never contradict Himself. During His earthly ministry, Jesus revealed all of the basic elements and conditions regarding salvation (i.e. the necessity of faith in Him, the role of good works, perseverance to the end, etc.). What He preached can never be contradicted by any subsequent writings of the apostles.

Jesus said:

John 5:28-29

**28"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
29and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment. **

Matthew 7:21

21"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

Matthew 16:27

27"For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS

And Paul said:

Romans 2:5-8

6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.


Galatians 6:7-10

**7Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap.
8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
9Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary.
10So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. **

Regarding the question to the rich young man, another person asked Him the same question and He responded:

Luke 10:25-28

**25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”
27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.” **

God Bless,
Michael
 
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