What is works salvation and why will it send people to hell?

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Is God racist?
Yes.

1 Peter 2:9 -
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR {God’s} OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
 
Matthew 7:
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that aseeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Ask – in the original greek is Aiteo (ahee-teh’-o). It is a conditional word.

In addition, there is no freewill in what you can ask for. God already knows what you need before you ask for it . . .

Mt 6:8 -
"So do not be like (the hypocrites); for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
 
God (doesn’t ) want a mindless robot who spouts scripture . . .

James
Deut 11:18
"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.

2 Cor 3:3 -
being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
 
Ask – in the original greek is Aiteo (ahee-teh’-o). It is a conditional word.

In addition, there is no freewill in what you can ask for. God already knows what you need before you ask for it . . .

Mt 6:8 -
"So do not be like (the hypocrites); for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him.
God’s foreknowledge does not nullify free will.
Deut 11:18
"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.

2 Cor 3:3 -
being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Don’t you see “impress” and “shall bind” as duties that are required of believers? ?
I am not sure what having the word of God written up on the heart has to do with nullifying free will.
 
There’s a really good explanation of faith and works in the Scofield note for James 2:26 🙂
Justification by Faith
On the basis of this passage (2:14-26), James has been charged with contradicting the doctrine of justification by faith as set forth by Paul (see Rom. 4:1-5). But the supposed contradiction is merely in words rather than in underlying truth.
James in this passage uses the word “faith” in the sense of intellectual orthodoxy (compare v. 19); Paul when he uses “faith” in a personal sense, means trust in the atoning work of Christ to the extent of full commitment to Him.
For James the word “works” means the believer’s works, the outward evidence of a saved life. On the other hand, Paul sometimes employs “works” to denote the deeds of the unsaved person whereby he vainly hopes to gain acceptance with God, while at other times he speaks of “good works,” by which he means the fruit that the justified man must produce.
Moreover, the word “justify” is for Paul a legal, positional term (see Rom. 3:28, note) describing a once-for-all act of God appropriated by faith alone and relating to the initial moment of the Christian life. But for James “justify” is employed of any subsequent moment of the Christian life and proves the reality of a man’s faith before his fellow men.
Thus in their views of justification Paul and James complement one another (2:23); Paul stresses acceptance with God wholly by grace through faith, whereas James presents the continual evidence before men of the initial transaction. For the definitive N.T. statement on faith and works in which both views are brought together, see Eph. 2:8-10.
 
Deut 11:18
"You shall therefore impress these words of mine on your heart and on your soul; and you shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.

2 Cor 3:3 -
being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
In spite of the fundamentalist zeal and mindset you managed to demonstrate once again how true it is that “work” is required for salvation. To “impress these words” and “bind these words” clearly show that the individual must perspire to the labor of faith.

Gen:3:19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread
John:6:35 I am the bread of life

John 5:28-29 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the **good deeds **to a resurrection of life, those who committed the **evil deeds **to a resurrection of judgment.

John 5:39 “You search the Scriptures because **you think **(ed. a complaint) that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are **unwilling to come **to Me so that you may have life.
[clearly Jesus is complaining that there is no life in scripture itself - one must **come to Jesus and walk the walk. BTW there was no NT scripture for 400 more years this was OT scripture.]

John 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, **unless you eat **the flesh of the Son of Man **and drink **His blood, you have no life in yourselves.

QED
Unless you are laboring to walk with God and eat His body and drink His blood you have NO LIFE IN YOU. Go, no RUN, to your nearest Catholic Church and talk to a priest now! The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church on the planet that has possession of the Body and Blood of Christ through the sacrament of The Eucharist. Get converted and get converted fast - this is your only guaranteed hope for salvation. To eat the body and blood of The Lord one must labor in the physical act of eating just as much as one must labor to grow in truth and understanding and to walk with God every day of one’s life.

James
 
Salvation is by God’s mercy through faith alone.

Saving faith results in us having a new nature that will, given time, produce good works as outward evidence to others of our new nature.

However, if we truly are saved, and die right after coming to Christ without works, we are still saved indeed, for it is Jesus’ payment, not ours, that saves us.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Eph 2:8-10 is the perfect Catholic understanding of salvation and justification…

What does this verse say saves you…
Grace…
You have to have faith…
And you can’t earn that salvation by works…

This is exactly how the Catholic Church teaches it…

What is often erroneously taught is that this verse teaches Faith alone… This is wrong as it is Grace that is mentioned that saves…

The very verse says it…

We are save by GRACE…

the rest is prepositional phrases to further the point of being saved by GRACE…

In other words this is a saved by Grace alone verse, not Faith alone verse

In Christ
 
Eph 2:8-10 is the perfect Catholic understanding of salvation and justification…
Concur heisenburg.

It is the Protestant “model of salvation” that makes these weird formula like constructs of “by faith alone”, or “OSAS” etc. that put Catholicism in a foreign light when we step into their strange world and try to convince using concepts that they are familiar with in their distorted perception to teach what our own faith is. This has the unfortunate side-effect of creating “accidentals” that are by themselves not Catholic positions at all but are partial truths that resemble things that they can relate to but don’t stand alone and can be refuted by them. We can’t step them into a full understanding by a decomposition of our faith - it needs to be given and taught holistically rather than argued defensively piecewise. We can’t spoon feed them the peas-and-the-carrots together since one only like peas and another only like carrots and we conform to their tastes rather than feeding holistically what they really need ( I think a spanking 😉 ). It takes a lot of time.

It’s almost like protestantism has over studied scripture so badly into bite size bits of truth that it can’t enjoy the texture and the presentation of the meal with all the flavors combined. We Catholics put our own faith at risk or risk doing more harm by even trying to step in to cure the patient since we are forced to present our faith piecewise to conform to the manner that they think. Its a shame since they can’t absorb the entire medicine in one holistic application.

I think that Protestant’s tradition of proselytizing by reducing key scriptural principals into a glib marketing buzz phrases that made it easy for uneducated common men to understand enough to get a part of the Christian message is the issue we face today. This “quantized” truth into bite-sized marketing phrases has become as a seperate sacrosanct protestant scripture and tradition onto itself (e.g. “one must believe”, “one must be born again”, “one must be baptised”, “one must know Jesus as one’s personal Lord and savior”, "by faith alone ", “by grace alone”, “by scripture alone” etc. ad-nauseum).

So I agree that Ephesians really is very integrative:
**For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; **

But what is missing literally is the implicit message that only common human tradition teaches. That is one must accept the gift. It was often an insult to many human cultures to be given a gift that one could not repay. It was an affront to one’s pride and dignity to take a gift from a friend (or an enemy) if one could not return an equal or “one up” better gift. Such people would NOT accept the gift out of pride. Thus God asks us to accept a gift out of love knowing full well we CAN NOT repay Him. Thus by God asking us to accept eternal salvation out of trust and love knowing we can not pay is asking us to be humble and accept humility as divine medicine to cure us of the pride that led to us falling from God in the first place. Thus accepting the gift becomes medicine and salvific. A medicinal pill that is prescribed by the Dr. and not taken by the patient is not in and of itself going to save anyone. No doubt the Divine Doctor will force some on their death beds to take their medicine but in general God wants us to take the gift/medicine and cooperate with its healing power and staying away from things that make us sick.

God could do a fly over of the whole planet like in a large C130 cargo plane and drop care-packages of gifts down all over the place. But if one did not come out of their house to pick up the gift, open it and use it , it would become useless to ones benefit. God could carpet bomb the planet with grace and force everyone to rapture spontaneously to heaven - but He chooses not to impose Himself on anyone.

God wants us to make clear choices through His primal gift that is intrinsic in our very humanity through the facility of freewill. The only gift God gave us that we had no conscious choice in accepting was the gift of Life. Except for cases of rape even life was given through the combined cooperation of our parents consenting to work with God’s creative grace.

James
 
Please clarify, are you saying that continuing in the grace is the same as accepting the grace? The brevity of your previous post is unclear – hence, I have no comment.

Regarding Acts 7: 51, I respectfully disagree,

The greek word translated into ‘forever opposing’ is:
antipipto - from anti - anti and pipto ; to oppose or resist

Read in proper context Stephen was addressing Jews (Acts 6:9) that were in opposition to the teaching of Jesus. They never had the Holy Spirit.

What was Stephens reward for telling them that? They stoned him to death.
You have got to be kidding me…if someone can resist the Holy Spirit, that person is resisting the grace of God. That is obvious.

Likewise, if a person decides not to continue in the grace of God then it is obvious that they are resisting the salvific grace that God provides. This is not exegetical rocket science. Your challenge to the quote by refering to Greek is of no help to your position. The translation that I used is from the RSV. This is a well respected translation and the rest of my English translations all use similar terminology. The meanings are clear and the logical conclusion concerning resisting God’s grace is likewise clear.
 
Ask – in the original greek is Aiteo (ahee-teh’-o). It is a conditional word.
In addition, there is no freewill in what you can ask for. God already knows what you need before you ask for it . . .
Tabcom,
Just because we know the words of the Star Spangled Banner before we sing it does not mean that we don’t have free will to sing the song. What you are saying does not make sense philosophically.

mdcpensive1
 
Yes.

1 Peter 2:9 -
But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR {God’s} OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
And why should the chosen people proclaim his excellencies if it doesn’t matter to those who are not? What logical purpose can it serve?
Why did you stop quoting 1 Peter 2 at verse 9? How about verse 12 “Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us” and all that follows?
You are full of Greek but avoid the point by quoting selected verses out of context.
I think you are missing the entire point I am making. None of us here are trivializing Jesus’ death to save us. If I accept Jesus and die at that moment, the Catholic teaching clearly says I am saved.
On the contrary, if I claim to have accepted Jesus and continue in my old ways, it is very clear that I have not accepted Jesus at all. Don’t split hairs with me on that because I don’t mean that I ought to be totally sinless after that event to go to heaven. I am clear in my mind about this but am unable to express it very well.
I am also unable to understand why all of you who seem to be putting down works do not want to explain why scripture (NT) talks of works. What about Jesus speaking of the last judgement and the separation of the sheep and goats in Mathew 25? You can’t explain this away by saying Jesus means that sheep and goats are predestined to salvation and damnation respectively. He speaks about them being defined by their works.

As someone here already pointed out, if one is saved already and you need do nothing, then evangelization is a waste of time.
Consequently, if we are predestined for hell, then your pointing out our errant ways in this forum is not going to help us get to heaven by changing our view right?
 
Tabcom,
Just because we know the words of the Star Spangled Banner before we sing it does not mean that we don’t have free will to sing the song. What you are saying does not make sense philosophically.

mdcpensive1
mdcpensive and Pax:

Thank you for reminding me that often times when I get in a discussion of freewill, misunderstands arise.

Your double negative not withstanding, are you saying we (those that are americans here) have freewill to chose to sing or not to sing the ‘Star Spangle Banner’?

A simple yes or no is all I’m looking for before continuing.
 
Why did you stop quoting 1 Peter 2 at verse 9?
My citation of 1 Peter 2:9 was in reply to your question . .
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emil2804:
Is God racist. . . .?
Answer: Yes, see 1 Peter 2:9.

If you would be so kind as to acknowledge that your question has been satisfactory answered, I will be happy to address one of the many other questions you asked as a follow-up.
 
mdcpensive and Pax:
Thank you for reminding me that often times when I get in a discussion of freewill, misunderstands arise.
Yes, it does mean that we have freewill to sing the song without looking at the sheet music.
PS, I thought the double negative was effective.

mdcpensive1
 
Moreover, we also have free will as to whether or not we choose to sing the Star Spangled Banner. So the answer is “yes.”
 
My citation of 1 Peter 2:9 was in reply to your question . . Answer: Yes, see 1 Peter 2:9.

If you would be so kind as to acknowledge that your question has been satisfactory answered, I will be happy to address one of the many other questions you asked as a follow-up.
First of all, the versions of the Bible I have seen use the term “chosen people” not race. Even if your translation uses race instead, it would be meant in a very broad sense and not in the anthropological sense. Look around you and tell me if God has targeted a specific race for salvation.
Secondly, Peter is not saying that the people he is addressing are the ones chosen for salvation but if you read the rest of it, it is clear that he is telling them they are to be examples to others around them. They are chosen to evangelize through their deeds.
So your quote doesn’t even scratch the surface of my question.
 
"tabcom:
are you saying we (those that are americans here) have freewill to chose to sing or not to sing the ‘Star Spangle Banner’?
Yes, it does mean that we have freewill to sing the song without looking at the sheet music.

mdcpensive1

Moreover, we also have free will as to whether or not we choose to sing the Star Spangled Banner. So the answer is “yes.”

pax
Thank you for your answers.
Within your answers explains the misunderstanding that we have.

Where as you view freewill in the context of making a choice, as americans, to participate (or not) in singing the ‘Star Spangled Banner’, I use freewill in the context of we had no choice at all as to the nation we were born into.

Can you see the difference?
 
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