What is worse...religious righteous or sinners?

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Ever heard of dirty laundry is washed at home?
Public confession is not allowed.

Though I am refering to shame in the religious sense.
Look up the word “pudor”. It means shame, though in English that word does not ring the bell in the religious sense.
The same as human respect.

Being a sinner and proud of it is not what I refer to.

Maybe the reason that they only light a candle and ask for help is because people act hatefully toward them.

There is no shame in not being able to afford a place to take a shower. Nor is there any shame in asking for food.

I am not talking about a drunk person stumbling in off of the street. I am talking about a person who has done their best with the resources available to them, and still cannot afford to clean their clothes…let alone take a shower. If they use a public restroom, and the owner found out, the police would probably haul them off to jail around New Orleans!!! There is a definite prejudice in America toward homeless people. They can’t get a job because they do not have a permanant address. And they can’t get a permanant address because they don’t have an income. And they couldn’t get a permanant address also without good credit. If it weren’t for the blessing of my parents, me and my 4 children would be living under a bridge, cuz I couldn’t afford to support them.

When my ex-husband was convicted of child molestation, the Church helped…but I needed a lot more help than they were willing to give. As I said, it is good for us all to repeat the words “But for the grace of God, there go I.”

Without sitting down and listening to people, even the smelly, dirty ones…you don’t know their story. And without knowing their story, you have no right to pass judgement on any aspect of their life. And then, even afterwards, you have no right to judge the person…only the sin.

I would be proud to sit next to someone who was dirty or smelly in Mass…as I have indeed done. I would be rejoicing that they had come to the right place to find and be with Jesus…Who wants them there as much as He wants the best dressed, sweetest smelling person there. He meets us where we are, and is rejoicing at the person who was lost, but is now being found. Shame on anyone who would pass judgement.

 

[Brian_Millar]

A little more elaboration along the state of homless people. Many have been on the streets so long, they know nothing else. Their priorities are more about taking care of the absolute minimum basics, to find sustinance. Their lives are such a miserable nightmare, the likes of which none can possibly relate to on any level, those that judge them are in grave error. Yes, many have drug and alcohal problems, given the enviroment they live in and what they face in life, it’s no wonder many try to find some form of temporary escape, so even those should be looked upon with pity and compassion.

Cherie, you are doing a wonderful job here, I am proud to have you as part of these boards, you indeed are making a difference and many here could learn from your clarity. It is obvious the Holy Spirit is with you!

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

A little more elaboration along the state of homless people. Many have been on the streets so long, they know nothing else. Their priorities are more about taking care of the absolute minimum basics, to find sustinance. Their lives are such a miserable nightmare, the likes of which none can possibly relate to on any level, those that judge them are in grave error. Yes, many have drug and alcohal problems, given the enviroment they live in and what they face in life, it’s no wonder many try to find some form of temporary escape, so even those should be looked upon with pity and compassion.

Cherie, you are doing a wonderful job here, I am proud to have you as part of these boards, you indeed are making a difference and many here could learn from your clarity. It is obvious the Holy Spirit is with you!

Thanks. Please pray for me.

 

[Brian_Millar]

Cherie, that is of course a given and already being done.

I cannot imagine the struggle you have and still are going through, thank God your heart remains with Christ.

 

[rlg94086]

Maybe the reason that they only light a candle and ask for help is because people act hatefully toward them.

There is no shame in not being able to afford a place to take a shower. Nor is there any shame in asking for food.

I am not talking about a drunk person stumbling in off of the street. I am talking about a person who has done their best with the resources available to them, and still cannot afford to clean their clothes…let alone take a shower. If they use a public restroom, and the owner found out, the police would probably haul them off to jail around New Orleans!!! There is a definite prejudice in America toward homeless people. They can’t get a job because they do not have a permanant address. And they can’t get a permanant address because they don’t have an income. And they couldn’t get a permanant address also without good credit. If it weren’t for the blessing of my parents, me and my 4 children would be living under a bridge, cuz I couldn’t afford to support them.

When my ex-husband was convicted of child molestation, the Church helped…but I needed a lot more help than they were willing to give. As I said, it is good for us all to repeat the words “But for the grace of God, there go I.”

Without sitting down and listening to people, even the smelly, dirty ones…you don’t know their story. And without knowing their story, you have no right to pass judgement on any aspect of their life. And then, even afterwards, you have no right to judge the person…only the sin.

I would be proud to sit next to someone who was dirty or smelly in Mass…as I have indeed done. I would be rejoicing that they had come to the right place to find and be with Jesus…Who wants them there as much as He wants the best dressed, sweetest smelling person there. He meets us where we are, and is rejoicing at the person who was lost, but is now being found. Shame on anyone who would pass judgement.

I agree Cherie, and I would add that we should take the same approach to all of our fellow human beings. This is the point I’ve been trying to make. I know it is easy for some to say “shame on anyone who would pass judgment” on the poor, addicts, etc. Guess what though? We are all in the same boat. We all have flaws. We all sin. If you look at anyone, and think “how pathetic”…whether rich or poor, “self-righteous” or acknowledged sinner…you should think to yourself, “but for the grace of God, there go I.”

Am I saying that it is easy? Am I saying that I have this down? Absolutely not. Pride is something we all deal with. Thinking we are better…whatever that entails…is something we all deal with. It is simple self-centeredness. None of us is intrinsically “better off.”

 

[rlg94086]

A little more elaboration along the state of homless people. Many have been on the streets so long, they know nothing else. Their priorities are more about taking care of the absolute minimum basics, to find sustinance. Their lives are such a miserable nightmare, the likes of which none can possibly relate to on any level, those that judge them are in grave error. Yes, many have drug and alcohal problems, given the enviroment they live in and what they face in life, it’s no wonder many try to find some form of temporary escape, so even those should be looked upon with pity and compassion.

Well said, Brian. It doesn’t mean that we need to accept/celebrate every action they make, but we need to have compassion for them. If we can, we should reach out to them and help them…whatever that entails. We don’t know what brought them to where they are.

 

[1ladybug]

Nice try.

But I did see myself going down this road about six months ago when I was really getting into Catholic Orthodoxy. The more I studied history, tradition and theology the more defects
I saw in others faith practices. I realized that I was becoming the pharisees though. I think that it is really a trap that to some degree I (we) will always fall into to differing degrees.

So you saw the short comings of others, Did you think you were better than them? or just that you had knowledge in that area that they didn’t. Did you condem them for that lack of knowledge? or offer to lead a class where you could share your knowledge? Gaining knowledge through study is not wrong but pride and judgeing others negatively is. Those are temptations that we all have to overcome. Sometimes we overcome the temptations and other times we don’t. It sounds to me that you have overcome the temptations this time. We are called to serve others and the Church, leading or assisting with catechism classes, or writing articles for papers or books may be a way to share and serve.

 

[lwest]

I got to thinking today while discussing theology (soteriology) with a friend of mine who holds different views than I on the subject. We got to talking about who Jesus condemned. And the only people i could think of off the top of my head were the religious righteous.

The problem with delving deeply into theology, doctrine and history is you risk becoming phariseetic in your faith. Form becomes more important that substance. mechanics becoming more important than intent. Intellectualizing the faith is a dangerous road to travel.

so i have to ask the question…who is better off the religious righteous or the sinner.

Maybe it depends on who’s more open to listen, to learn. To ammend their lives. The ‘holy’ don’t think they have anything to ammend and I think some elevate themselves and become elitist. On the other hand, many people are sinners because they don’t care, they’ve turned from God and are reaping the consequences (or will reap them). I think maybe they both need prayers, that we all need prayers, that we always strive to accept God’s Will and keep His ways and not turn from Him nor allow pride into our hearts to mislead us. We all fail and we all need to be open to spiritual growth and none of us can do any of that without God’s grace. So, to answer your question, I think they both need prayers. They’re both missing the point. It’s like saying, “Who’s better off, the thief or the liar?” They’re both bad.