What is wrong with kissing the Qu'ran?

[OneAugustKnight]

Obviously. many people think JP2 committed an objective sin by kissing the Qu’ran. This is what I would like clarified:

1. Which commandment does this sin fall under and why?
2. What do faithful Catholics think of a Catholic who is married to a Muslim? Deep down, do they find that disgusting or scandalous?
   Is it some sort of validation of Islam to be loving and affectionate with someone who promotes that ideology?

Please just be honest, I don’t want to argue, I just want to understand where other Catholics coming from.

 

[Ad_Deum]

The second commandment:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me…"

It also means that we should not honor other religions because our duty as Christians is to spread the Gospel and bring those are lost to God.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo

 

[johnknoesel]

Well, to say the John Paul The Great committed a sin IF he kissed the Qu’ran would be true. Here is why, muslims are commanded by the Qu’ran to kill all non-believers it is as simple as that. There is no way that God would have told Mohamed that. That is why I do not believe that Allah is the God of the Hebrews and Christians and that is where the thought of the Pope committing a sin came from. My general feeling about it was that he was attempting to open ecumenical lines of communication which I hate to say was a little naive. I do not think that there will be any way that the muslims will change or convert that easily.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Please post your source for JPII kissing the Koran.

 

[Ad_Deum]

Question 2:
What do faithful Catholics think of a Catholic who is married to a Muslim? Deep down, do they find that disgusting or scandalous?

Answer:
In my opinion those people (Catholic) who are married to muslims are in sin because they turned away from God, for they married heathens that does not recognized and hates our faith. The holy matimony instituted by God from the very beginning must stay within the circle of our faith; the muslim religion will force someone from a different religion to convert to their belief before getting married. In addition, those who marries/ed muslims probably is not knowledgable about our awesome faith; for that reason, they may think that it is okay to marry other person of a different religion. For me I would not allow it becasue it is a disobedience to our God and His commandments, and plus it is against Catholic teaching to marry other persons of different faith.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo

 

[Sure]

The second commandment:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me…"

It also means that we should not honor other religions because our duty as Christians is to spread the Gospel and bring those are lost to God.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo

So to kiss something is to make it an idol? Is kissing a book given to you the same as worshipping a false idol or is it just saying “thank you” when it’s handed to you?

 

[MariaG]

Please post your source for JPII kissing the Koran.

It is a well documented fact. Here is one from Jimmy Akin with the picture.

JP2 and the Quran

 

[johnknoesel]

Well, to say the John Paul The Great committed a sin IF he kissed the Qu’ran would be true. Here is why, muslims are commanded by the Qu’ran to kill all non-believers it is as simple as that. There is no way that God would have told Mohamed that. That is why I do not believe that Allah is the God of the Hebrews and Christians and that is where the thought of the Pope committing a sin came from. My general feeling about it was that he was attempting to open ecumenical lines of communication which I hate to say was a little naive. I do not think that there will be any way that the muslims will change or convert that easily.

I need to clarify something here. After a little looking etc. I do not feel that kissing the Qu’ran is a sinful act if what was in Popes heart and mind at the time was only to show a sign of respect and nothing more. I do not believe any way shape form or fashion that the Pope was doing anything more than that.

 

[MariaG]

The second commandment:

"You shall have no other gods before me.

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me…"

It also means that we should not honor other religions because our duty as Christians is to spread the Gospel and bring those are lost to God.

Pax
Laudater Jesus Christus
Instaurare omnia in Christo

So to kiss something is to make it an idol? Is kissing a book given to you the same as worshipping a false idol or is it just saying “thank you” when it’s handed to you?

Along these lines, and this line of reasoning that kissing something means you are worshipping something, Protestants must be right! Catholics are idol worshippers, worshipping everything from our spouses to the crucifix.

 

[OneAugustKnight]

Please post your source for JPII kissing the Koran.

I wish I could cite it for you, but I saw that picture on a Sede site I accidently came across more than a year ago while studying to become Catholic. I don’t visit those sites and I doubt I will find the picture anywhere else.

ETA: Nevermind, someone already cited it for me

 

[Hellisreal]

Obviously. many people think JP2 committed an objective sin by kissing the Qu’ran. This is what I would like clarified:

1. Which commandment does this sin fall under and why?
2. What do faithful Catholics think of a Catholic who is married to a Muslim? Deep down, do they find that disgusting or scandalous?
   Is it some sort of validation of Islam to be loving and affectionate with someone who promotes that ideology?

Please just be honest, I don’t want to argue, I just want to understand where other Catholics coming from.

1)none- we dont even believe its an inspired book.
2)It’s not disgusting or scandalous. It’s not my place to judge that couple.
It is my place to love them, and the children they have.
In no way does number one or number two “validate” Islam.

That’s where this Catholic is coming from.
I get tired of hearing how this is a big deal too. People have too much time on their hands.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Is it some sort of validation of Islam to be loving and affectionate with someone who promotes that ideology?

Please just be honest, I don’t want to argue, I just want to understand where other Catholics coming from.

It’s more than fine to be loving and affectionate to muslims.

But to show affection for their holy book? That definitely seems like validation and acceptance of Islam. It’s like the pope said “I love the teachings of Islam”.

 

[MariaG]

I wish I could cite it for you, but I saw that picture on a Sede site I accidently came across more than a year ago while studying to become Catholic. I don’t visit those sites and I doubt I will find the picture anywhere else.

ETA: Nevermind, someone already cited it for me

Note, Jimmy Akin, for those who might not know, is NOT a Sedevacanist.

Not saying that you were saying that, but since I also thought it was a well known fact that the Pope kissed the Quran, I would not want to assume that people knew who Jimmy Akin was.

 

[MariaG]

Obviously. many people think JP2 committed an objective sin by kissing the Qu’ran. This is what I would like clarified:

1. Which commandment does this sin fall under and why?
2. What do faithful Catholics think of a Catholic who is married to a Muslim? Deep down, do they find that disgusting or scandalous?
   Is it some sort of validation of Islam to be loving and affectionate with someone who promotes that ideology?

Please just be honest, I don’t want to argue, I just want to understand where other Catholics coming from.

For number 2. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

1637 In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: "For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband."140 It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith.141 Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion.

 

[MariaG]

But to show affection for their holy book? That definitely seems like validation and acceptance of Islam. It’s like the pope said “I love the teachings of Islam”.

I disagree. Nor do I believe that was the intention of JPII when he did so. I just do not think he thought ahead to how his actions would be misconstrued.

 

[MariaG]

I need to clarify something here. After a little looking etc. I do not feel that kissing the Qu’ran is a sinful act if what was in Popes heart and mind at the time was only to show a sign of respect and nothing more. I do not believe any way shape form or fashion that the Pope was doing anything more than that.

I do believe it was more than just respect. I believe it may have been an acknowledgement that Muslims believe they worship the God of Abraham, as do we.

And I do not believe that is a sin.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I disagree. Nor do I believe that was the intention of JPII when he did so. I just do not think he thought ahead to how his actions would be misconstrued.

I’m sure it’s not what he meant, too. But to me, that’s what it means… which is why it’s upsetting to see the pope do it. Of course he didn’t mean that though.

 

[MariaG]

I’m sure it’s not what he meant, too. But to me, that’s what it means… which is why it’s upsetting to see the pope do it. Of course he didn’t mean that though.

Respectfully, there is no “of course” in this particular discussion.

While you may think of it that way, there are those who are saying that this was idol worship. Clearly they would not agree with us that “of course” he didn’t mean it. Idol worship is a grave sin. Grave sin can only happen with full consent of what one is doing so if someone believes that JPII was guilty of idol worship, then they believe that he kissed that Quran, honoring other gods before Him.

Since I as I said before, I believe JPII was honoring the God of Abraham, therefore he was not guilty of honoring “other gods” before me since we worship the God of Abraham.

However, anyone could theoretically be right since no one can read what is in anothers heart.

 

[Potato1]

It is not that you kiss but what and why. A man can kiss another man on the cheek as a greeting. A man cannot kiss another man on the male genitailia… What concerns me is WHY he did this? not that he did it. And truely we cannot know his heart we can see in retrospect that it was probably as bad idea. Sinful? well that is only known to God. Scandelous well that is known to all. Personaly I think the koran is vile and I would not even dust it off it were dirty.

 

[stmaria]

I do believe it was more than just respect. I believe it may have been an acknowledgement that Muslims believe they worship the God of Abraham, as do we.

And I do not believe that is a sin.

The Koran denies that Jesus is the Son of God, it denies the Holy Spirit, it denies the Resurrection. There is nothing holy in the Koran.
If Pope Benedict kissed the Book of Morman there would be outrage I would hope]. Would a Muslim leader kneel before the Holy Eucharist? I don’t think so.