What is your Churches Doctrine or Official teaching on "THE TREE OF LIFE"?

[RebeccaJ]

*You are the first Catholic I have ever talk to that has your view. I’m fasinated with that.The Tree of Life and Revelation are powerful part of what I believe in Covenant Theology. I have never come across anyone else with this view. To me God put these Scriptures together for a reason. They are powerful and important for us to understand. The Holy of Holies was present in the beginig and throughout Salvation History.Shekina[/Iof God was present in the tabernacle. Mary is the only human in which was overshadowed by the Shekina]Holy Cloud. These teachings are critical to me to find the Fullness of Truth. I have search a long time for a Church that teaches on “The Tree of Life” and the Historical Significance the Book of Revelation has. What would you than say the fruit of the Tree of Life is? What is ment by the leaves being medicine for the nations?

hi racing59, it is the Catholic Church that has taught me these things. I am a convert. The quotes I gave you are from the Vatican website.

Jesus is called Life and He is called the Vine. We are the fruit of the Vine. The Church is the fruit of the Vine. All that we do in His name (our good works) are a fruit of the Vine.

Medicine for all nations: BIG ONE I think don’t you? Jesus heals us. He made humanity whole again. He takes us, broken and scarred, and heals us of our wounds. He gives us LIFE.

I believe this is also a reference to the Blessed Sacrament. We say before receiving Our Lord, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you. Only say the word and I shall be healed”. This is a statement of Faith. The woman who touched the robe of GOD and was healed because she believed. We know we are not worthy, how could we ever be worthy to receive GOD? We ask Him to heal us. To forgive us. To look not upon our sins but the faith of the church.

Yes, I agree, it is a very powerful message.

 

[Jerusha]

'Becca,

 

[Catholic20064]

I have no idea, but have always wondered if that meant we would have sap instead of blood after the resurrection …

 

[racing59]

hi racing59, it is the Catholic Church that has taught me these things. I am a convert. The quotes I gave you are from the Vatican website.

Jesus is called Life and He is called the Vine. We are the fruit of the Vine. The Church is the fruit of the Vine. All that we do in His name (our good works) are a fruit of the Vine.

Medicine for all nations: BIG ONE I think don’t you? Jesus heals us. He made humanity whole again. He takes us, broken and scarred, and heals us of our wounds. He gives us LIFE.

I believe this is also a reference to the Blessed Sacrament. We say before receiving Our Lord, “Lord I am not worthy to receive you. Only say the word and I shall be healed”. This is a statement of Faith. The woman who touched the robe of GOD and was healed because she believed. We know we are not worthy, how could we ever be worthy to receive GOD? We ask Him to heal us. To forgive us. To look not upon our sins but the faith of the church.

Yes, I agree, it is a very powerful message.

I want to thank you for your info. The Tree of Life was a big hurdle for me with the Catholic Church. I went to the Vatican website and read many of Pope John Paul II talks on The Tree of Life. Why is this not part of mainstream Catholic teaching in America? If Catholics believe in the Real Presence, would not the Eucharist be the Fruit of the Tree of Life? Does not your belief in the Eucharist give you eternal life? Why are these not mainstream teachings?

 

[RebeccaJ]

I want to thank you for your info. The Tree of Life was a big hurdle for me with the Catholic Church. I went to the Vatican website and read many of Pope John Paul II talks on The Tree of Life. Why is this not part of mainstream Catholic teaching in America? If Catholics believe in the Real Presence, would not the Eucharist be the Fruit of the Tree of Life? Does not your belief in the Eucharist give you eternal life? Why are these not mainstream teachings?

Pope John Paul II has some very amazing writings. As does Pope Benedict XVI. They have different styles and approaches. Pope Benedict says a whole lot in a little space. I have slowly been reading Spe Salvi. One section is a Big Gulp. It takes me a while to digest it.

I think any Catholic who has an understanding of the Eucharist, would understand any/all of this, if they thought about it. A lot of Catholics, just don’t.

We believe God gives us Eternal life. By the gift of the Son, who Sacrificed Himself for us. This Sacrifice is eternally given at Mass. God gives Himself to us. We are nourished by Him. “I am in you and you are in me.” Certainly, just as we believe the OT prophesied of our Salvation, in soooo many ways. Including the Tree of Life. So we believe the the way in which God shares Himself with us, is a prophecy, a foretelling, of the life to come. The Tree of Life remains in these prophecies, as we endure to the end, with hope for Salvation.

St. John is my favorite book in the NT, with Revelations a very close second. The two, tied together, knock my socks off. John teaches the Trinity and the Real Presence, very clearly and distinctly. Revelations references the Eucharist in several places, and teaches us a lot about the Kingdom of God. The understanding of the two, together, is nothing less than astounding. It is here where I learn what our true relationship with God is.

 

[RebeccaJ]

'Becca,

I love this subject! It’s not often I find people who have plumbed the depths of the Tree of Life. I’m glad racing59 is here.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have no idea, but have always wondered if that meant we would have sap instead of blood after the resurrection …

 

[racing59]

Pope John Paul II has some very amazing writings. As does Pope Benedict XVI. They have different styles and approaches. Pope Benedict says a whole lot in a little space. I have slowly been reading Spe Salvi. One section is a Big Gulp. It takes me a while to digest it.

I think any Catholic who has an understanding of the Eucharist, would understand any/all of this, if they thought about it. A lot of Catholics, just don’t.

We believe God gives us Eternal life. By the gift of the Son, who Sacrificed Himself for us. This Sacrifice is eternally given at Mass. God gives Himself to us. We are nourished by Him. “I am in you and you are in me.” Certainly, just as we believe the OT prophesied of our Salvation, in soooo many ways. Including the Tree of Life. So we believe the the way in which God shares Himself with us, is a prophecy, a foretelling, of the life to come. The Tree of Life remains in these prophecies, as we endure to the end, with hope for Salvation.

St. John is my favorite book in the NT, with Revelations a very close second. The two, tied together, knock my socks off. John teaches the Trinity and the Real Presence, very clearly and distinctly. Revelations references the Eucharist in several places, and teaches us a lot about the Kingdom of God. The understanding of the two, together, is nothing less than astounding. It is here where I learn what our true relationship with God is.

I wish once again to thankyou for responding to this thread Rebbecca J. I to have a deep love for the Book of Revelation. The Tree of Life and Revelation are probably the two things that have been holding me back from the Catholic Church.The Priesthood of Melchezidek might be another in the fact that why the priesthood is not given to all of us? I see Revelation through Covenant eyes the same way I see the Tree of Life. Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 talk of Jesus Christ last discourses on the Mount of Olives. These were known as the little Apocalypse in the early Church, which was the destuction of the Temple in 70 a.d. and the Unvieling of the Bride,Christ Church. John saved this discourse for the Book of Revelation. Telling of the Heavenly Liturgical Worship and the destruction of the Temple in 70 a.d.Josephus writes of these things in his writtings of the detruction of the Temple.Catholics I have talk to on this site tend to take a Futurist view of Revelations.What is your view of Revelation? Once again thankyou, I enjoy getting into Salvation History, Tree of Life, Covenants, and Revelation.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I wish once again to thankyou for responding to this thread Rebbecca J. I to have a deep love for the Book of Revelation. The Tree of Life and Revelation are probably the two things that have been holding me back from the Catholic Church.The Priesthood of Melchezidek might be another in the fact that why the priesthood is not given to all of us? I see Revelation through Covenant eyes the same way I see the Tree of Life. Matthew 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 talk of Jesus Christ last discourses on the Mount of Olives. These were known as the little Apocalypse in the early Church, which was the destuction of the Temple in 70 a.d. and the Unvieling of the Bride,Christ Church. John saved this discourse for the Book of Revelation. Telling of the Heavenly Liturgical Worship and the destruction of the Temple in 70 a.d.Josephus writes of these things in his writtings of the detruction of the Temple.Catholics I have talk to on this site tend to take a Futurist view of Revelations.What is your view of Revelation? Once again thankyou, I enjoy getting into Salvation History, Tree of Life, Covenants, and Revelation.

Hey, any time. I learned from you too. I didn’t know of the Jewish beliefs re: the Tree of Life.

My view of Revelations is that it is “resistance writing”, admonitions to the faithful to remain strong in God’s ways in the face of extreme persecution, a description of Salvation, the Church, the Kingdom of God, in very rich symbolic and metaphorical form, and prophecy. (Not necessarily in that order.) I recommend reading the online version at usccb.org. Pay attention to the introduction and footnotes.

Melchizedek is another good topic! Jesus is our High Priest, Prophet and King. The priesthood is given to all the baptized.

 

[racing59]

Hey, any time. I learned from you too. I didn’t know of the Jewish beliefs re: the Tree of Life.

My view of Revelations is that it is “resistance writing”, admonitions to the faithful to remain strong in God’s ways in the face of extreme persecution, a description of Salvation, the Church, the Kingdom of God, in very rich symbolic and metaphorical form, and prophecy. (Not necessarily in that order.) I recommend reading the online version at usccb.org. Pay attention to the introduction and footnotes.

Melchizedek is another good topic! Jesus is our High Priest, Prophet and King. The priesthood is given to all the baptized.

Thankyou I went to the site and read it. Daniels writtings were dune during the Maccabean Revolt. His books were to be sealed until the End of time, yet we read them today. The tremendous persecution in the first century Church came to a head around 66 a.d. with a Jewish revolt against the Roman Garison at Antonia. For Seven years the Romans were out to destroy the Jewish Zealots in Jerusalem. Early Christianity got caught in the cross fire. The Temple was a Heriodian Temple corrupt with the power of Rome. The Temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. so there was no more Sacrifice except the Todah (Bread and wine). God needed to take out the Temple,because it stood in the way of Jews findining"The Way" the New Covenant.From 66 a.d. until 73 a.d. the last fall of the Jewish Zealois at Musadah was seven years. Ezeckiel chapter 16 tells us Jerusalem became the Harlot(Babylon) and that is why she was destroyed in 70 a.d. I truely believe like Daniel, John was trying to give a historical significance to the Temples destruction through Covenant eyes. This is why Mark 13,Luke 21, Matthew 24 Jesus foretold of her destruction. My biggest problem is I do not see Revelation as a Book of fear of things to come. Jesus Christ defeated evil by the Cross(The Tree of Life). Evil is defeated by the Name of Jesus, “It is Finished”. Would you say this belief is in contradiction with the Catholic Church?

 

[jlhargus]

I have read many threads where people claim to have “The Fullnest of Truth”. I finally decided to post my question on “The Tree of Life” which is as important to me as the Ark of the Covenant was to the ancient Jews. Genesis 2:9 talks of not one, but two trees in the center of the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, not from the tree of Life.Genesis 3:24 tells of firey cherubim guarding the tree of life. The Tree of Life is throughout the Bible all the way to Rev.22:14. I have yet to find some church,besides Covenant Theology who has an official teaching on this. Can any one tell me their faiths teaching on this? Even some non- Christian cultures have official teachings on “The Tree of LIfe”. I’m curious about others./B]

JL: I hope this is not a dupe post as I have not read all of them. It isn’t an offical teaching but how some early Chruch fathers saw it. Rv 2:7 He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God TREE OF LIFE=THE CROSS. FRUIT OF THE TREE=BODY & BLOOD, soul and divinity of the risen Christ, our Passover sacrificed Lamb. In the midst of the PARADISE OF GOD=THE CHURCH, From which the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ at Mass from the fruit of the Cross, which we eat at the sacrifice of the mass. ]

Rv22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. WASH THEIR ROBES=BAPTISM, TREE OF LIFE=CROSS, GATES INTO THE CITY=NEW JERUSALEM=CHURCH. When mass is celebrated the kingdom of God is present. Both the heavenly and earthly Church.

 

[Finrock]

Hello racing59! Nice to meet you.

Interesting topic and thank you for bringing it up. The Book of Mormon has several chapters that discuss a dream that a prophet named Lehi had about the Tree of Life. There were many elements to the dream, essentially with people either trying to reach the Tree of Life and partake of it’s fruit, others trying to reach it but falling away, and yet others ignoring it altogether.

The Book of Mormon describes that the Tree of Life represents the love of God, which it describes as being the most desirable of all things and that which brings the most joy to the soul. In the Book of Mormon account of the Tree of Life, it connects the condescension of Jesus Christ with the Tree of Life. It illustrates that the best example of God’s love for us is found in the atonement of Jesus Christ. The Savior codescended from Heaven to come to earth to be our Savior and our Exemplar. So, really, the Tree of Life represents the Savior, His life, and His atonement.

An apostle in the LDS Church, said the following concerning the Tree of Life. “The images of Christ and the tree [are] inextricably linked. … At the very outset of the Book of Mormon, … Christ is portrayed as the source of eternal life and joy, the living evidence of divine love, and the means whereby God will fulfill his covenant with the house of Israel and indeed the entire family of man, returning them all to their eternal promises” (Holland, Christ and the New Covenant).

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[RebeccaJ]

Thankyou I went to the site and read it. Daniels writtings were dune during the Maccabean Revolt. His books were to be sealed until the End of time, yet we read them today. The tremendous persecution in the first century Church came to a head around 66 a.d. with a Jewish revolt against the Roman Garison at Antonia. For Seven years the Romans were out to destroy the Jewish Zealots in Jerusalem. Early Christianity got caught in the cross fire. The Temple was a Heriodian Temple corrupt with the power of Rome. The Temple was destroyed in 70 a.d. so there was no more Sacrifice except the Todah (Bread and wine). God needed to take out the Temple,because it stood in the way of Jews findining"The Way" the New Covenant.From 66 a.d. until 73 a.d. the last fall of the Jewish Zealois at Musadah was seven years. Ezeckiel chapter 16 tells us Jerusalem became the Harlot(Babylon) and that is why she was destroyed in 70 a.d. I truely believe like Daniel, John was trying to give a historical significance to the Temples destruction through Covenant eyes. This is why Mark 13,Luke 21, Matthew 24 Jesus foretold of her destruction. My biggest problem is I do not see Revelation as a Book of fear of things to come. Jesus Christ defeated evil by the Cross(The Tree of Life). Evil is defeated by the Name of Jesus, “It is Finished”. Would you say this belief is in contradiction with the Catholic Church?

Wow, this is good stuff.

I do not believe it is a contradiction. However, there is the fact that Judgment Day remains to come, and it will indeed be fierce and fearful, for God is Merciful AND Just. In our sin, we should fear His Justice. Revelations speaks to this, especially in regards to the blood of the Saints who were martyred, and the Justice that will be given them. This is balanced with God’s Mercy. We have no need to fear if we seek to follow Jesus. Forsake sin and ask for His forgiveness in our short comings. Lord have mercy on us.

Romans 5 and 8 especially addresses our Hope.

In Catholicism, it is a balance. If we believe that we can do whatever we like and God will forgive us, this is called presumption. For example, if I tell a great lie with the thought in my head that it’s ok, I’ll just go to confession on Saturday. Well, at confession on Saturday I had better also confess that I sinned with the presumed idea that I can do that sin and God will forgive me.

If we believe that we are so sinful that God could not possibly forgive us this is called despair. Despair is a particularly bad sin, as it is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

Evil still exists in the world. I saw a great quote once, I can’t remember where. Paraphrasing, that Jesus has bound Satan, he no longer has power over us. We are reconciled to God and He has made it possible for us to be with Him, forever. Thus, Satan is like a vicious dog on a chain. He can bark and bite and make lots of noise, but can do no harm unless we, by our own free will, approach him.

It is the same choice we talked about already. The Jews equated sin and evil to death. We can choose death or Life. Jesus has set us free. He does not impose this freedom. We must choose it. For those who choose death (sin), God’s Justice awaits them.

 

[racing59]

Wow, this is good stuff.

I do not believe it is a contradiction. However, there is the fact that Judgment Day remains to come, and it will indeed be fierce and fearful, for God is Merciful AND Just. In our sin, we should fear His Justice. Revelations speaks to this, especially in regards to the blood of the Saints who were martyred, and the Justice that will be given them. This is balanced with God’s Mercy. We have no need to fear if we seek to follow Jesus. Forsake sin and ask for His forgiveness in our short comings. Lord have mercy on us.

Romans 5 especially addresses our Hope.

In Catholicism, it is a balance. If we believe that we can do whatever we like and God will forgive us, this is called presumption. For example, if I tell a great lie with the thought in my head that it’s ok, I’ll just go to confession on Saturday. Well, at confession on Saturday I had better also confess that I sinned with the presumed idea that I can do that sin and God will forgive me.

If we believe that we are so sinful that God could not possibly forgive us this is called despair. Despair is a particularly bad sin, as it is a sin against the Holy Spirit.

Evil still exists in the world. I saw a great quote once, I can’t remember where. Paraphrasing, that Jesus has bound Satan, he no longer has power over us. We are reconciled to God and He has made it possible for us to be with Him, forever. Thus, Satan is like a vicious dog on a chain. He can bark and bite and make lots of noise, but can do no harm unless we, by our own free will, approach him.

It is the same choice we talked about already. The Jews equated sin and evil to death. We can choose death or Life. Jesus has set us free. He does not impose this freedom. We must choose it. For those who choose death (sin), God’s Justice awaits them.

I love the way you put Catholic teaching in your post. But if sin is death, but death can not seperate us from the Love of Jesus. I understand it is our choice, even in Covenat Theology it is up to us to choose to be in a Covenant with God or not. Leviticus chapter 26 tells us what will happen if we are disobediant in a Covenant.But shouldn’t we be obediant out of Love of Jesus and not out of fear of his Second Coming? For me many Christian Churches teach fear.Is not God’s ultimate desire to be Physical present with his Holy Children? Is he not Our Father?
P.S. I do love your analogy of Satan being like a dog on a chain. Never herd that one before. Makes since.

 

[racing59]

Hello racing59! Nice to meet you.

Interesting topic and thank you for bringing it up. The Book of Mormon has several chapters that discuss a dream that a prophet named Lehi had about the Tree of Life. There were many elements to the dream, essentially with people either trying to reach the Tree of Life and partake of it’s fruit, others trying to reach it but falling away, and yet others ignoring it altogether.

The Book of Mormon describes that the Tree of Life represents the love of God, which it describes as being the most desirable of all things and that which brings the most joy to the soul. In the Book of Mormon account of the Tree of Life, it connects the condescension of Jesus Christ with the Tree of Life. It illustrates that the best example of God’s love for us is found in the atonement of Jesus Christ. The Savior codescended from Heaven to come to earth to be our Savior and our Exemplar. So, really, the Tree of Life represents the Savior, His life, and His atonement.

An apostle in the LDS Church, said the following concerning the Tree of Life. “The images of Christ and the tree [are] inextricably linked. … At the very outset of the Book of Mormon, … Christ is portrayed as the source of eternal life and joy, the living evidence of divine love, and the means whereby God will fulfill his covenant with the house of Israel and indeed the entire family of man, returning them all to their eternal promises” (Holland, Christ and the New Covenant).

Kind Regards,
Finrock

Fasinating, it seems that LDS has almost the same view as RCC if I am not mistaken. This is good stuff, thankyou for responding.

 

[racing59]

JL: I hope this is not a dupe post as I have not read all of them. It isn’t an offical teaching but how some early Chruch fathers saw it. Rv 2:7 He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God TREE OF LIFE=THE CROSS. FRUIT OF THE TREE=BODY & BLOOD, soul and divinity of the risen Christ, our Passover sacrificed Lamb. In the midst of the PARADISE OF GOD=THE CHURCH, From which the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ at Mass from the fruit of the Cross, which we eat at the sacrifice of the mass. ]

Rv22:14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. [WASH THEIR ROBES=BAPTISM, TREE OF LIFE=CROSS, GATES INTO THE CITY=NEW JERUSALEM=CHURCH. When mass is celebrated the kingdom of God is present. Both the heavenly and earthly Church.

This is not a dupe post. I am here to learn. I have never met Catholics before with your view on the Tree of Life. You are actually getting me over some hurdles I had with the Catholic Church.I was once bother by a Catholic that told me there were no Sacraments( Covenants) in heaven. The Rainbow God’s Covenant with Noah is still around the Throne Revelation 4:3. You have conected the dots for me with the Tree of Life and the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in chapter 19. To bad more people don’t understand this.
[/quote]

 

[jlhargus]

*You are the first Catholic I have ever talk to that has your view. I’m fasinated with that.The Tree of Life and Revelation are powerful part of what I believe in Covenant Theology. I have never come across anyone else with this view. To me God put these Scriptures together for a reason. They are powerful and important for us to understand. The Holy of Holies was present in the beginig and throughout Salvation History.Shekina[/Iof God was present in the tabernacle. Mary is the only human in which was overshadowed by the Shekina]Holy Cloud. These teachings are critical to me to find the Fullness of Truth. I have search a long time for a Church that teaches on “The Tree of Life” and the Historical Significance the Book of Revelation has. What would you than say the fruit of the Tree of Life is? What is ment by the leaves being medicine for the nations?

JL: Just guessing form a Catholic point of view I would say the leaves represent the sacraments Christ gave to the Church.

Hb9:4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ARK CONTAINED the gold jar of MANNA, AARON’S STAFF that had budded, and the stone TABLETS OF THE COVENANT.

Mary the living ark would contain, in her womb, the real living Word of God, CHRIST, the real living Bread of Life, CHRIST, and the real living High Priest, CHRIST. Not just symbols as the ark made by hands contained, but the actual realities. As our Lord says in Ex25:22 THERE, ABOVE THE COVER BETWEEN THE TWO CHERUBIM THAT ARE OVER THE ARK OF THE TESTIMONY, I WILL MEET WITH YOU AND GIVE YOU ALL MY COMMANDS FOR THE ISRAELITES.

2 MCABS 2:5 And when Jeremy came thither he found an hollow cave wherein he laid the tabernacle and the ark and the altar of incense and so stopped the door 6 And some of those that followed him came to mark the way but they could not find it 7 Which when Jeremy perceived he blamed them saying As for THAT PLACE IT SHALL BE UNKNOWN UNTILL THE TIME THAT GOD GATHER HIS PEOPLE again TOGETHER AND RECEIVE THEM UNTO MERCY. 8 THEN SHALL THE LORD SHEW THEM THESE THINGS AND THE GLORY OF THE LORD SHALL APPEAR AND THE CLOUD ALSO as it was shewed under Moses and as when Solomon desired that the place might be honourably sanctified

EX 40:34 Then** a cloud covered the tent of the congregation and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle** 35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation because the cloud abode thereon and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle

LK 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her** The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee** therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God

2 SAM 6:2 And David arose and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah to bring up from thence the ark of God whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims

LK 1:39 **And Mary arose **in those days **and went **into the hill country with haste **into a city of Juda **

2 SAM 6:9 **And David was afraid **of the LORD that day and said How shall the ark of the LORD come to me?

LK 1:30 And the angel said unto her **Fear not Mary **for thou hast found favour with God

2 SAM 6:9 And David was afraid of the LORD that day and said How shall the ark of the LORD come to me?

LK 1:43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

2 SAM 6:16 And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David Michal Saul’s daughter looked through a window and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD and she despised him in her heart

LK 1:44 For lo as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears** the babe leaped in my womb for joy **

2 SAM 6:18 And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings** he blessed the people in the name of the LORD** of hosts

LK 1:45 And** blessed is she that believed **for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord

2 SAM 6:11 And the ark of the LORD continued in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months: and the LORD blessed Obededom and all his household

LK 1:56 **And Mary abode with her about three months **and returned to her own house

 

[RebeccaJ]

I love the way you put Catholic teaching in your post. But if sin is death, but death can not seperate us from the Love of Jesus. I understand it is our choice, even in Covenat Theology it is up to us to choose to be in a Covenant with God or not. Leviticus chapter 26 tells us what will happen if we are disobediant in a Covenant.But shouldn’t we be obediant out of Love of Jesus and not out of fear of his Second Coming? For me many Christian Churches teach fear.Is not God’s ultimate desire to be Physical present with his Holy Children? Is he not Our Father?
P.S. I do love your analogy of Satan being like a dog on a chain. Never herd that one before. Makes since.

Definitely. We follow Jesus in freedom and love. This is the freedom that we speak about. Free from sin we are free to be the disciple of Jesus that we long to be. Of course we fail, but He is there to pick us up. God’s Love is never ending.

If we reduce faith to grudgingly following rules, we short change ourselves. God’s desire is for His children to be with Him. Once we understand the love God has for us, all else becomes us loving Him in return. A love that is forced is not really love. God does not force us to love Him, but He does nothing but teach us, guide us, to Him. This is evident throughout the entire canon of Scripture. The Covenants that God makes with His People are for no other reason than to bring us to Him. The Sacrifice of His Son is for this very reason. God did this for us. He did not have to, as God does not have to do anything. Why else but because He loves us? Jesus Himself said He came into the world to save it, not condemn it. This is a statement of love.

It is a process, and God understands our hearts. He knows our every need and if we choose to follow Him, we grow in the love he has for us. One of the most profound, simple statements, that led me to Catholicism in the first place, is the Catholic teaching that GOD IS LOVE. When we speak of the Holy Trinity, and ask: what is the essence of God that binds the three Persons together as One? The answer is LOVE. This is not some mushy Hallmark card sentimentality. This is a literal statement.

 

[jlhargus]

JL: The mass is the wedding supper of the Lamb. Paul says, If Christ be not raised your faith is vain you are yet in your sins,1Cor 15:17. Christ our High Priest had to enter the Holy of Holies with his blood, to make atonement, just as the OT High Priest entered the earthly Holy of Holies with the blood of the sacrifice, to make atonement. Christ entered once into the true tabernacle not made by hands, were he ever lives, the Lamb of God once slain, who takes away the sins of the world as our one mediator, interceding for us bringing to remembrance that PURE OFFERING, this IS my body, this IS my blood, the sacrifice of the cross, showing HIS BODY and HIS BLOOD before the Father and MAKING PRESENT to his people, the Church, his once for all sacrifice on the cross. The bread of life and the blood of the Lamb.

[Ex 25:30 And you shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before me always] The bread of the Presence is placed on a table before the Presence of God above the Ark of the Old Covenant in the Holy of Holies. The Temple bread of the Presence is a type and foreshadowing, of Christ and his real Presence, as the bread of life, the Lamb of God, who will stand in the midst of the throne bringing to remembrance the sacrifice of the cross, before the Father.

[Rv 5:6 …in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders STOOD A LAMB AS IT HAD BEEN SLAIN …] Our slain sacrificed Passover Lamb the Bread of Life with his atoning blood ever living and present in the true Holy of Holies in the midst of the throne before God the Father mediating, [1Jn2:1 MY LITTLE CHILDREN, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And IF ANY MAN SIN, we have AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.].

Christ is also our propitiation for sins after baptism, bringing to remembrance and making present his once for all sacrifice of great mercy. Our PURE OFFERING, Jesus Christ, our living High Priest making intercession for us. That same once for all sacrifice of the cross. There is no re-sacrifice it is the same once done MADE PRESENT to us a living memorial sacrifice.

[Malachi 1:11 For FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN even UNTO the GOING DOWN of the same my name shall be great among THE GENTILES; and IN EVERY PLACE INCENSE shall be OFFERED unto my name, AND A PURE OFFERING: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. [That PURE OFFER=sacrifice, this IS my body, this IS my blood, is our Eucharistic Lord, Jesus Christ. Animal sacrifces were clean, only Christ is PURE.]

[Rv 5:6 And I beheld in the midst of the throne … stood a Lamb as it had been slain… Hb 7: 17 …Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Hb 7:24 … this man…continues ever…an unchangeable priesthood 25 Wherefore he is able also to save … seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. … Hb 8…We have such an high priest… 2 A minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle …3 … every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices wherefore IT IS OF NECESSITY THAT THIS MAN HAVE SOMEWHAT ALSO TO OFFER 4 …priests that offer gifts according to the law 5 … serve to the EXAMPLE and SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS… … 6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry… MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT …]

Christ is not just sitting and watching events, he is our High Priest interceding for us with the Father, bringing to remembrance to the Father and to us that same once for all sacrifice of the lamb on the Cross which we eat at Mass, just as the Israelites ate their Passover lamb. [JN 6:55 My flesh IS meat indeed, my blood IS drink indeed.

The prophecy of Malachi says Gentiles will offer incense and make a pure offering (sacrifice) to the Lord’s Name from the rising to setting of the sun in every place. That is fulfilled in the Catholic Church as that same once for all sacrifice of the cross is made present at Mass which is celebrated by priests in every parish daily in all places, the Orthodox Church has this same pure offering also… The OT offerings where clean but not pure only Christ our sacrifice is pure.

The fruit of the the Tree of Life=Cross our Passover Lamb is eaten at mass. [Hb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren THAT HE MIGHT BE a merciful and faithful HIGH PRIEST in things pertaining to God TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE 1Jn 2:2 2 And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hb9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; BUT THE HEAVENLY things themselves WITH BETTER SACRIFICES than these.] [Hb9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. 23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but THE HEAVENLY THINGS themselves WITH BETTER SACRIFICES than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now TO APPEAR in the presence of God FOR US:] Better SACRIFICES plural because that sam heavenly sacramental sacrifice if re-presented over and over, Christ is not re-sacrificed that memorial sacrifice is brought to the rememberance of the father’s and and us.

 

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JL: The mass is the wedding supper of the Lamb. Paul says, If Christ be not raised your faith is vain you are yet in your sins,1Cor 15:17. Christ our High Priest had to enter the Holy of Holies with his blood, to make atonement, just as the OT High Priest entered the earthly Holy of Holies with the blood of the sacrifice, to make atonement. Christ entered once into the true tabernacle not made by hands, were he ever lives, the Lamb of God once slain, who takes away the sins of the world as our one mediator, interceding for us bringing to remembrance that PURE OFFERING, this IS my body, this IS my blood, the sacrifice of the cross, showing HIS BODY and HIS BLOOD before the Father and MAKING PRESENT to his people, the Church, his once for all sacrifice on the cross. The bread of life and the blood of the Lamb.

[Ex 25:30 And you shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before me always] The bread of the Presence is placed on a table before the Presence of God above the Ark of the Old Covenant in the Holy of Holies. The Temple bread of the Presence is a type and foreshadowing, of Christ and his real Presence, as the bread of life, the Lamb of God, who will stand in the midst of the throne bringing to remembrance the sacrifice of the cross, before the Father.

[Rv 5:6 …in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders STOOD A LAMB AS IT HAD BEEN SLAIN …] Our slain sacrificed Passover Lamb the Bread of Life with his atoning blood ever living and present in the true Holy of Holies in the midst of the throne before God the Father mediating, [1Jn2:1 MY LITTLE CHILDREN, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And IF ANY MAN SIN, we have AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.].

Christ is also our propitiation for sins after baptism, bringing to remembrance and making present his once for all sacrifice of great mercy. Our PURE OFFERING, Jesus Christ, our living High Priest making intercession for us. That same once for all sacrifice of the cross. There is no re-sacrifice it is the same once done MADE PRESENT to us a living memorial sacrifice.

[Malachi 1:11 For FROM THE RISING OF THE SUN even UNTO the GOING DOWN of the same my name shall be great among THE GENTILES; and IN EVERY PLACE INCENSE shall be OFFERED unto my name, AND A PURE OFFERING: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. [That PURE OFFER=sacrifice, this IS my body, this IS my blood, is our Eucharistic Lord, Jesus Christ. Animal sacrifces were clean, only Christ is PURE.]

[Rv 5:6 And I beheld in the midst of the throne … stood a Lamb as it had been slain… Hb 7: 17 …Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Hb 7:24 … this man…continues ever…an unchangeable priesthood 25 Wherefore he is able also to save … seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. … Hb 8…We have such an high priest… 2 A minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle …3 … every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices wherefore IT IS OF NECESSITY THAT THIS MAN HAVE SOMEWHAT ALSO TO OFFER 4 …priests that offer gifts according to the law 5 … serve to the EXAMPLE and SHADOW OF HEAVENLY THINGS… … 6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry… MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT …]

Christ is not just sitting and watching events, he is our High Priest interceding for us with the Father, bringing to remembrance to the Father and to us that same once for all sacrifice of the lamb on the Cross which we eat at Mass, just as the Israelites ate their Passover lamb. [JN 6:55 My flesh IS meat indeed, my blood IS drink indeed.

The prophecy of Malachi says Gentiles will offer incense and make a pure offering (sacrifice) to the Lord’s Name from the rising to setting of the sun in every place. That is fulfilled in the Catholic Church as that same once for all sacrifice of the cross is made present at Mass which is celebrated by priests in every parish daily in all places, the Orthodox Church has this same pure offering also… The OT offerings where clean but not pure only Christ our sacrifice is pure.

The fruit of the the Tree of Life=Cross our Passover Lamb is eaten at mass. [Hb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren THAT HE MIGHT BE a merciful and faithful HIGH PRIEST in things pertaining to God TO MAKE RECONCILIATION FOR THE SINS OF THE PEOPLE 1Jn 2:2 2 And HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

This is some awesome stuff, I just don’t understand why this is not taught in the mainstream Catholic Church. Most people, I have come across have never even heard of the Tree of Life. So what you are saying is the Tree of Life is the Eucharist and it was present in Eden? Then would you say Proverbs 9:1 is refering to the Church since she has built her house on Seven Pillars?
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