What is your Churches Doctrine or Official teaching on "THE TREE OF LIFE"?

[racing59]

Definitely. We follow Jesus in freedom and love. This is the freedom that we speak about. Free from sin we are free to be the disciple of Jesus that we long to be. Of course we fail, but He is there to pick us up. God’s Love is never ending.

If we reduce faith to grudgingly following rules, we short change ourselves. God’s desire is for His children to be with Him. Once we understand the love God has for us, all else becomes us loving Him in return. A love that is forced is not really love. God does not force us to love Him, but He does nothing but teach us, guide us, to Him. This is evident throughout the entire canon of Scripture. The Covenants that God makes with His People are for no other reason than to bring us to Him. The Sacrifice of His Son is for this very reason. God did this for us. He did not have to, as God does not have to do anything. Why else but because He loves us? Jesus Himself said He came into the world to save it, not condemn it. This is a statement of love.

It is a process, and God understands our hearts. He knows our every need and if we choose to follow Him, we grow in the love he has for us. One of the most profound, simple statements, that led me to Catholicism in the first place, is the Catholic teaching that GOD IS LOVE. When we speak of the Holy Trinity, and ask: what is the essence of God that binds the three Persons together as One? The answer is LOVE. This is not some mushy Hallmark card sentimentality. This is a literal statement.

You are helping me understand by leaps and bounds. I just don’t understand why I have not come across more Catholics like you? If what you are posting is true of what your Faith believes than I only have one last hurdle to over come so please be patient.Why is it though that Churches are filled ith people who don’t even understand why they are their? If the Catholic Church is filled with people like you, you can count me in.

 

[jlhargus]

This is some awesome stuff, I just don’t understand why this is not taught in the mainstream Catholic Church. Most people, I have come across have never even heard of the Tree of Life. So what you are saying is the Tree of Life is the Eucharist and it was present in Eden? Then would you say Proverbs 9:1 is refering to the Church since she has built her house on Seven Pillars?

JL: I would say the fruit of the tree is the the Eucharist, Christ himself. Wisdom would be Christ he builds the house=Chruch on seven pillars=seven sacraments, this is how I see It.

The Church is the bride of Christ, Christ is the new Adam. The new Adam’s bride is formed from the water and blood taken form his side, representing the seven sacraments. When Christ was in deep sleep (died) on the cross. His bride was given the breath of life at Pentecost. She is our mother who gives birth to God’s children thru water and Spirit, from her womb, the baptismal font.

 

[geometer]

Revelation22:14 is a good source on The Tree of Life, but in verse 15 it talks of outside the city are dogs,sorccers, the unchaste,ect… Are the talking about Heaven or they refuring to the Tree of Life being on earth?

The vision of the Tree of Life in verses 1 and 2, I believe is in heaven. The Tree of Life is also mentioned in verse 19, but is only in the Revised Standard version. Other versions of Revelation 19 speak of a Book of Life, instead of a Tree of Life.

The city of verse 15, perhaps is on earth, it doesn’t seem like heaven…

 

[racing59]

JL: I would say the fruit of the tree is the the Eucharist, Christ himself. Wisdom would be Christ he builds the house=Chruch on seven pillars=seven sacraments, this is how I see It.

The Church is the bride of Christ, Christ is the new Adam. The new Adam’s bride is formed from the water and blood taken form his side, representing the seven sacraments. When Christ was in deep sleep (died) on the cross. His bride was given the breath of life at Pentecost. She is our mother who gives birth to God’s children thru water and Spirit, from her womb, the baptismal font.

So could you say that the Church always existed and was present in Eden? That she was fullfilled and again unvieled at Pentacost, just like Solmon’s Temple? So the Holy of Holies is now the Tabernacle on the alter?

 

[racing59]

The vision of the Tree of Life in verses 1 and 2, I believe is in heaven. The Tree of Life is also mentioned in verse 19, but is only in the Revised Standard version. Other versions of Revelation 19 speak of a Book of Life, instead of a Tree of Life.

The city of verse 15, perhaps is on earth, it doesn’t seem like heaven…

Revelation 5:10 talks of the Priesthood of every nation, tongue ,and tribe, but they reign not in Heaven, but on earth. Wouldn’t it stand to reason that God would give us access to the Tree of Life on earth?So death has no sting over us?

 

[RebeccaJ]

You are helping me understand by leaps and bounds. I just don’t understand why I have not come across more Catholics like you? If what you are posting is true of what your Faith believes than I only have one last hurdle to over come so please be patient.Why is it though that Churches are filled ith people who don’t even understand why they are their? If the Catholic Church is filled with people like you, you can count me in.

I don’t know what is in the hearts of other people. I do know when I am at Mass all the Catholics there believe the same way as I do. The Church has a large breadth and an even deeper depth. Some people are content to know the basics. We all are on a journey. We all belong to God.

The Catholics I know are like me, I guess, in the sense that we seek a deep understanding and feel that fall-flat-on-your-face at the feet of God and worship Him for all He is and has given us. I was taught mainly by a deacon who I consider my mentor. And by my Catholic friends who seek the same understanding. And by the writings of all the Catholics, from the ECFs to Pope Benedict.

 

[jlhargus]

This is some awesome stuff, I just don’t understand why this is not taught in the mainstream Catholic Church. Most people, I have come across have never even heard of the Tree of Life. So what you are saying is the Tree of Life is the Eucharist and it was present in Eden? Then would you say Proverbs 9:1 is refering to the Church since she has built her house on Seven Pillars?

JL: I would say it is taught in a most basic way. Then is it up to one to build on those basics. I do not look down on those who do not know more than basics. Some are satisfied and some are not able to understand deeper, they simply live their faith, after all that is all God wants of us. I know Protestants also who know very little, yet live their faith. I have been Catholic 35 years I am still learning, the scriptures are inexhaustible. It takes hours of study and one must be interested in the subject to grasp and make it more than a job. The more I lean the more I understand I have just scratched the surface. Answering one question leads to the need to answer two or three more. Sometimes I just take a break. Have you read any books by Scott Hahn, he has one called, “A Father Who Keeps His Promises”, God Covenant Love in Scripture. Also Worthy is the Lamb by Thomas J. Nash, this begins in the Garden of Eden

So could you say that the Church always existed and was present in Eden? That she was fulfilled and again unvieled at Pentacost, just like Solmon’s Temple? So the Holy of Holies is now the Tabernacle on the alter?

JL: I suppose if the church is defined as the people of God in covenant family relationship with God. Then I think it could have been present in Adam and Eve in the garden, I’m not sure. If that is the case the church or people of God in family covenant relationship would have been present and renewed with each covenant. All being fulfilled in the new covenant, family relationship. This is all my opinion only, I haven’t really studied or thought much about it.

 

[Finrock]

Fasinating, it seems that LDS has almost the same view as RCC if I am not mistaken. This is good stuff, thankyou for responding.

You are welcome, racing59.

I didn’t have time earlier today to finish all that I was going to point out. Since you asked about the meaning of the fruit I also wanted to comment on that.

In Lehi’s dream, in the Book of Mormon, the purpose of life was to go to the Tree of Life and to eat of the fruit. Because the tree represents Jesus, His life, and His atonement, then put in other words, our purpose in life is to come unto Jesus and partake of Jesus’ life. There is no greater gift that God can give us than to be partakers of His life. The LDS church believes that partaking of Jesus’ life is Eternal Life, being that Eternal is one of the names that God has (D&C 19:10-12). So, the fruit represents Eternal Life, or God’s life.

The fulness of Eternal Life is something that we will not obtain until after this life, but we can experience the joy of following Jesus while we are on earth. In that sense the Tree of Life is available to us now as well as in the eternities. Another prophet in the Book of Mormon said that we can be partakers of Jesus life while here on earth and that as we strengthen our faith in Jesus, obey Him, and following Him, we will be able to partake of the joy and happiness that comes through applying the atonement in our life and from following the Savior and doing good. We “…shall feast upon this fruit even until [we] are filled, that [we] hunger not, neither shall [we] thirst” (Alma 32).

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[Jerusha]

If you wish to interpret it that way, Finn, you have the right. However, this places your interpretation in conflict with the endowment ceremony. I really don’t want to quote that, for fear of offending you. Generally speaking, however, the meaning of it is that Adam and Eve ate of the apple in the garden, and knew good and evil. This was a good thing, and really was what God wanted them to do. After all, He really wanted them to propagate, and they couldn’t without learning about S-E-X. :newidea:

So strange. :egyptian:Reformed Egyptian, indeed.

I’m tired, so I will let this develop as it will.

 

[Finrock]

If you wish to interpret it that way, Finn, you have the right. However, this places your interpretation in conflict with the endowment ceremony. I really don’t want to quote that, for fear of offending you. Generally speaking, however, the meaning of it is that Adam and Eve ate of the apple in the garden, and knew good and evil. This was a good thing, and really was what God wanted them to do. After all, He really wanted them to propagate, and they couldn’t without learning about S-E-X. :newidea:

So strange. :egyptian:Reformed Egyptian, indeed.

I’m tired, so I will let this develop as it will.

Hello Jerusha! I hope you are having a great evening.

The topics within the endowment ceremony are similar, but not exactly the same. Even though my point was to speak about the tree of life, I think you are saying that what I stated as the purpose of our life is in conflict with what the LDS endowment teaches. I’m not exactly sure why you think there is a conflict, however, I don’t think there is. As a matter of fact, I’m certain that there isn’t. Adam and Eve ultimately came down to earth for the same reasons as all of us did. It is the reason why they eventually partook of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The LDS Church teaches that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was taught to Adam and Eve as well, after the fall. The gospel message in a nutshell is to come unto Jesus and partake of His life. We are ultimately here on earth to hopeful gain eternal life. Indeed, according to our scriptures, God’s work and His glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man (Moses 1:39). We can’t do that unless there is a Savior who atones for us, we accept His atonement, and we emulate His life.

The events in the Garden were only a precursor to this purpose and in short they set things in motion for the Plan of Salvation to be fulfilled. Partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil wasn’t the ultimate purpose in Adam and Eve’s life, but it was a part of the plan. Adam and Eve realized that they must fall from their current state that didn’t allow progression, to a state that required them to pass through trials and sufferings, but these trials and sufferings are what allowed them to progress and to attain, through the grace of Christ and His atonement, what God really wanted for them, which was Eternal Life, which isn’t what they had in the Garden. That is why they partook. It was a means to an end, not the end itself.

Hopefully that makes more sense to you now. Thanks for the comments.

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[RebeccaJ]

JL: I would say it is taught in a most basic way. Then is it up to one to build on those basics. I do not look down on those who do not know more than basics. Some are satisfied and some are not able to understand deeper, they simply live their faith, after all that is all God wants of us. I know Protestants also who know very little, yet live their faith. I have been Catholic 35 years I am still learning, the scriptures are inexhaustible. It takes hours of study and one must be interested in the subject to grasp and make it more than a job. The more I lean the more I understand I have just scratched the surface. Answering one question leads to the need to answer two or three more. Sometimes I just take a break. Have you read any books by Scott Hahn, he has one called, “A Father Who Keeps His Promises”, God Covenant Love in Scripture. Also Worthy is the Lamb by Thomas J. Nash, this begins in the Garden of Eden

JL: I suppose if the church is defined as the people of God in covenant family relationship with God. Then I think it could have been present in Adam and Eve in the garden, I’m not sure. If that is the case the church or people of God in family covenant relationship would have been present and renewed with each covenant. All being fulfilled in the new covenant, family relationship. This is all my opinion only, I haven’t really studied or thought much about it.

I hope my post didn’t come across as all blah blah blah no one is interested in the deep stuff but me. lol. I am but a little fish in a BIG pond. I have explored but a small bit of the pond. For example, your scriptural knowledge is something I wish I had.

There are times where keeping to the basics is where I need to be and what I do.

Thanks racing59 for starting this thread. I have enjoyed the discussion, all around.

 

[geometer]

Generally speaking, however, the meaning of it is that Adam and Eve ate of the apple in the garden, and knew good and evil. This was a good thing, and really was what God wanted them to do. After all, He really wanted them to propagate, and they couldn’t without learning about S-E-X.

No, I don’t read Genesis the way that you do. What God actually told them is what he meant them to do. He told them that they were to become one flesh, be fruitful, and multiply. Somewhat later he told them that they were not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

You are simply trying to tell the same story that the serpent told. He and you dear, are saying that God had lied…

Worship snakes if you must, but please don’t try to corkscrew, and serpentine, you know Who…

 

[RebeccaJ]

No, I don’t read Genesis the way that you do. What God actually told them is what he meant them to do. He told them that they were to become one flesh, be fruitful, and multiply. Somewhat later he told them that they were not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

You are simply trying to tell the same story that the serpent told. He and you dear, are saying that God had lied…

Worship snakes if you must, but please don’t try to corkscrew, and serpentine, you know Who…

Jerusha was reminding Finrock that his Mormon beliefs don’t quite align to Christian belief. What she described is Mormon belief. I’d wager that she agrees with you.

 

[geometer]

Jerusha was reminding Finrock that his Mormon beliefs don’t quite align to Christian belief. What she described is Mormon belief. I’d wager that she agrees with you.

Well, I would hope that Jerusha can forgive me for speaking out without noticing those little icons and things under her post. Now that I have seen them I guess she was making some fun…

 

[Finrock]

Jerusha was reminding Finrock that his Mormon beliefs don’t quite align to Christian belief. What she described is Mormon belief. I’d wager that she agrees with you.

Hi RebeccaJ! How are you this early morning? Good, I hope.

I think Jerusha was actually asserting that my “interpretation” of our purpose in life didn’t agree with the LDS temple endowment. I can’t think of anything I’ve posted in this thread that any other Christian wouldn’t agree with. My primary point has been to show how the Book of Mormon describes the Tree of Life to be the Savior and the fruit of the Tree of Life to be Eternal Life. I mean, all of my posts on this thread have been talking about how we need to come to Jesus, emulate His life, and rely on His mercy and on the atonement and we will have Eternal Life. This seems to align with the beliefs of every Christian I’ve ever spoken to. Do you disagree that we need to come to Jesus, emulate His life, and rely on His mercy and on the atonement to have Eternal Life?

Actually, reading your posts, it seems that your understanding of the tree of life is very similar to what I’m describing. That’s neat!

Have a good day today!

Kind Regards,
Finrock

 

[Jerusha]

Thank you , Finn and Rebecca. I will have to review this. I agree, the interpretation of Joseph Sr’s dream doesn’t have to line up with the temple endowment ceremony. There is very little in Mormonism that lines up with anything else, why should that?

 

[racing59]

I hope my post didn’t come across as all blah blah blah no one is interested in the deep stuff but me. lol. I am but a little fish in a BIG pond. I have explored but a small bit of the pond. For example, your scriptural knowledge is something I wish I had.

There are times where keeping to the basics is where I need to be and what I do.

Thanks racing59 for starting this thread. I have enjoyed the discussion, all around.

Hi Rebecca, as far as the deep stuff , Ilove to talk about it too. I feal it is important to our journey on earth for truth. You have alot to offer so don’t think your a little fish in a big pound. I have learnt alot on this thread! Thankyou and keep posting you have help me alot more than you know. The Tree of Life and Revelation are critical in my faith journey.

 

[racing59]

JL: I would say it is taught in a most basic way. Then is it up to one to build on those basics. I do not look down on those who do not know more than basics. Some are satisfied and some are not able to understand deeper, they simply live their faith, after all that is all God wants of us. I know Protestants also who know very little, yet live their faith. I have been Catholic 35 years I am still learning, the scriptures are inexhaustible. It takes hours of study and one must be interested in the subject to grasp and make it more than a job. The more I lean the more I understand I have just scratched the surface. Answering one question leads to the need to answer two or three more. Sometimes I just take a break. Have you read any books by Scott Hahn, he has one called, “A Father Who Keeps His Promises”, God Covenant Love in Scripture. Also Worthy is the Lamb by Thomas J. Nash, this begins in the Garden of Eden

I must confess to you I had a friend who turned me on to books and tapes by Scott Hahn. I got alot out of " A Father who keeps his Promises" it was in line with what I believe in Covenant Theology. The problem was when I went to talk to Catholic priest about it , they were very anti Scott Hahn. This I could not understand and it turned me off to the Catholic Church. It is to my suprise and delite that I have met people like you who study. I just don’t understand the anti Hahn sentament. I was told he was too protestant in his thinking. Why is this not taught in the Church? Why an anti Hahn sentament?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Everyone has opinions, including priests. You don’t have to like Scott Hahn to be Catholic.

Shortly after I was baptized someone told me that eventually there would be a Catholic who would really make me feel insulted and angry, and most likely, it would be a priest.

 

[racing59]

Everyone has opinions, including priests. You don’t have to like Scott Hahn to be Catholic.

Shortly after I was baptized someone told me that eventually there would be a Catholic who would really make me feel insulted and angry, and most likely, it would be a priest.

**The problem I have is through Covenant eyes it makes the Catholic Church so beautiful and yet these priest are the authority of the Church through their local parishes. I seek truth so if the leadership doesn’t understand or not open to what you have shown me to be Catholic teaching, I have a problem with that. I understand everyone has there own opinion.But doesn’t the leadership in a church have a responsibility to know what their church teaches? I still have a problem with Holy Orders for only a few, not everyone, but I’ll save that for another thread. Do you think my problem is that I dell to deep in the Scriptures for the Catholic Church? **