What is your response to Anti-Pope Christians....

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Actually I am not anti-pope. I give catholics a far better thought than a whole lot of other folks who go under the name of christian.

If there is a “rapture”(we shall be snatched up, in a twinkling of an eye) I believe that a whole lot of living catholics will hear the trumpet and Jesus’s command to "come ". This is not always a popular idea…catholics who are saved!!!..

What would be left are the luke warm-ers; the christians in name only; those who really were not believers. Catholic, non-catholic, muslims, atheists, you name it…that is who will be left behind.

The pope is now in heaven. left are the evil doers in the church’s hierarchy( there are some) and they elect a new pope who is the most evil. Is there not catholic prophecy about such a pope to come? (malachy)

I despise Jack Chick. I lovingly accept that catholics can be "saved’ and are indeed christian. But i also acknowledge that , within the government of the vatican, there have been, are, and shall be, men who are in league with the devil.

They will be found out one day by the King of kings and Lord of lords.

If the vatican that is run by these evil men in that day, survives, it is going to be void of all things Christ. No paintings, no art, no wondeful centuries old bibles, no crucifixes. This is now the world of Lucifer, Anti-christ and the false prophet= the unholy trinity.

It is enough to make you cry.
 
there have been all sorts of preachers that also have been more like devils as well!
 
SpectatorX said:
Of course. We’re not Donatists, after all. The Pope could be a run-of-the-mill axe murderer for that matter. What does come into play is the charism of infallibility. A pope can’t declare ex cathedra that which contradicts the Deposit of Faith. The opinion that the man of sin will be a pope therefore has some inherent… obstacles.
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sorry but i don’t understand any of this… :confused:
 
Doxiemom said:
Actually I am not anti-pope. I give catholics a far better thought than a whole lot of other folks who go under the name of christian.

If there is a “rapture”(we shall be snatched up, in a twinkling of an eye) I believe that a whole lot of living catholics will hear the trumpet and Jesus’s command to "come ". This is not always a popular idea…catholics who are saved!!!..

What would be left are the luke warm-ers; the christians in name only; those who really were not believers. Catholic, non-catholic, muslims, atheists, you name it…that is who will be left behind.

The pope is now in heaven. left are the evil doers in the church’s hierarchy( there are some) and they elect a new pope who is the most evil. Is there not catholic prophecy about such a pope to come? (malachy)

I despise Jack Chick. I lovingly accept that catholics can be "saved’ and are indeed christian. But i also acknowledge that , within the government of the vatican, there have been, are, and shall be, men who are in league with the devil.

They will be found out one day by the King of kings and Lord of lords.

If the vatican that is run by these evil men in that day, survives, it is going to be void of all things Christ. No paintings, no art, no wondeful centuries old bibles, no crucifixes. This is now the world of Lucifer, Anti-christ and the false prophet= the unholy trinity.

It is enough to make you cry.
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Not really. When the Lord comes back, that is it, as my parish priest said, “it’s a wrap”. Judgement day.
There is some debate on when the Malachy prophecy surfaced, but here is a wiki on it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes
 
Rev. 12, KJV:
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
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Emphasis mine.

When a fundamentalist starts pointing fingers at the or an anti-Christ, remind that what Scripture declares, such as “Satan, which deceiveth the whole world”. Now, unless they are about to argue that they are not somehow apart of “the whole world” they will have to admit that Satan does and will deceive them.

Rev.13, KJV:
[3] And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and **all the world **wondered after the beast.
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Emphasis mine.

Again, “all the world” will wonder after the beast. Note that so far there is not the singlest exception made to this term; that is, we are given no reason to suspect that even a single person in the world will now be deceived by Satan or wonder after “the beast.” If the Church or the Papacy is this deceiver or beast, and they are aware of it, then it can’t possibly be that Satan or beast spoken of in Revelations, otherwise they would not be aware of it.
[4] And they ((that is, “all the world”)) worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
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This is the biggest joke ever if someone actually thinks that no one is able to make war on the Vatican or the Papacy. It has been attacked many times in history, usually by Catholics no less, though sometimes directly or indirectly by secular nation states (like Napoleonic France or Hitler’s Germany). So far, the Vatican and the Papacy cannot possibly be this beast, the dragon or anything like it, because 1) protestants and fundamentalists suspect the Pope/the Church/Catholicism of being the beast, and refuse to pay any respect on that account, which Scripture says will not happen in the case of the beast, and 2) the Vatican and the Pope have been made war against, and no one in their right-mind would actually think that Vatican city state cannot be attacked or the Pope cannot be killed or that Catholicism in general cannot be “made war against,” as Protestantism and secularism both make war against the Church, so to speak, and the Church has suffered injury after injury on their accounts, whether as a way of life or even as an institution.
[4] These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
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Now please find me the Protestant or Fundamentalist congregation that requires celibacy and call the service of our lord a vocation over and above any other vocation, such as secular work (i.e., priests cannot undertake secular jobs). Find me the congregation outside the Church that still consecrates virgins.

Frankly, much of Revelations seems to be describing a perpetual struggle between the saints and the devil from the time of Christ to the end of times, not simply a particular historical period of intense tribulation. Oddly, most apocalyptic Christians seem to confuse God’s vengeance upon the wicked at the end of times with the rise of the beast, as if it were the beast plaguing mankind with its wrath. Reading the verses, all the woes of the end of days are caused by God to call man out of the service of the beast. The beast himself concentrates his tornments solely on those who refuse to render him service. Certainly anyone who has ever strived to live a godly and holy life could identify with the torments of the devil in this world, whether in temptation or duress or distress from keeping God’s commands. Catholics throughout the world and throughout our history have ceaselessly been attacked by states and powers, hence the multitude of saints and martyrs we have and remember on account of that.
 
That would be the whole “Whore of Babylon” thing, wouldn’t it? If so, I’d give them a copy of the Catholic Answers’ article on the “Whore of Babylon”.
 
Timothy17 said:
Rev. 12, KJV:

Emphasis mine.

When a fundamentalist starts pointing fingers at the or an anti-Christ, remind that what Scripture declares, such as “Satan, which deceiveth the whole world”. Now, unless they are about to argue that they are not somehow apart of “the whole world” they will have to admit that Satan does and will deceive them.

Rev.13, KJV:

Emphasis mine.

Again, “all the world” will wonder after the beast. Note that so far there is not the singlest exception made to this term; that is, we are given no reason to suspect that even a single person in the world will now be deceived by Satan or wonder after “the beast.” If the Church or the Papacy is this deceiver or beast, and they are aware of it, then it can’t possibly be that Satan or beast spoken of in Revelations, otherwise they would not be aware of it.

This is the biggest joke ever if someone actually thinks that no one is able to make war on the Vatican or the Papacy. It has been attacked many times in history, usually by Catholics no less, though sometimes directly or indirectly by secular nation states (like Napoleonic France or Hitler’s Germany). So far, the Vatican and the Papacy cannot possibly be this beast, the dragon or anything like it, because 1) protestants and fundamentalists suspect the Pope/the Church/Catholicism of being the beast, and refuse to pay any respect on that account, which Scripture says will not happen in the case of the beast, and 2) the Vatican and the Pope have been made war against, and no one in their right-mind would actually think that Vatican city state cannot be attacked or the Pope cannot be killed or that Catholicism in general cannot be “made war against,” as Protestantism and secularism both make war against the Church, so to speak, and the Church has suffered injury after injury on their accounts, whether as a way of life or even as an institution.

Now please find me the Protestant or Fundamentalist congregation that requires celibacy and call the service of our lord a vocation over and above any other vocation, such as secular work (i.e., priests cannot undertake secular jobs). Find me the congregation outside the Church that still consecrates virgins.

Frankly, much of Revelations seems to be describing a perpetual struggle between the saints and the devil from the time of Christ to the end of times, not simply a particular historical period of intense tribulation. Oddly, most apocalyptic Christians seem to confuse God’s vengeance upon the wicked at the end of times with the rise of the beast, as if it were the beast plaguing mankind with its wrath. Reading the verses, all the woes of the end of days are caused by God to call man out of the service of the beast. The beast himself concentrates his tornments solely on those who refuse to render him service. Certainly anyone who has ever strived to live a godly and holy life could identify with the torments of the devil in this world, whether in temptation or duress or distress from keeping God’s commands. Catholics throughout the world and throughout our history have ceaselessly been attacked by states and powers, hence the multitude of saints and martyrs we have and remember on account of that.
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Thank you. This is the most useful response so far!
 
I have to agree with the above response. Personally, I don’t know much yet about Catholicism, so I can’t really put up a valid argument.

The only thing I can do is put my faith in God and in Jesus, and try to follow the Lord’s law. Personally, I’m still having trouble doing this, but I’m trying my best.

When the end of days does come, I want to be prepared for it.

I’m not trying to sound too corny, but I love my Lord. He is very good to me, and he is very patient. It took me all my life to come to the true Church. I would never want to cause God any pain by ignoring his commandments, and when I die, I want to meet him face to face.

I feel God’s love every day in all that goes on around me. When I’m angry or sad, I pray. I think of all the good things in my life, and, one by one, I go down a basic list of the things that really matter: family, friends, a roof over my head, a place to sleep, a place to shower, food to eat, my Church, my friendship with the local Deacon … and I praise God for each and every one of those things.

I continue to do this until I am no longer upset. It’s actually very theraputic for me to praise God.

No, it does not take away all of my pain or anger, but it helps me to realize that God puts mountains before us so that, once we have overcome these obstacles, we realize just how strong we really are, and that God has intentionally made us this way so that we would be able to arm ourselves in the end of days.

Right now, I’m facing a lot of difficulties, but I know that God is with me, beside me, behind me, in front of me, over me, under me. He protects me from the evil in life, and if I allow myself to be accepted into the Catholic Church and be made a full Catholic, I know that, when the end of days does come, I will be ready. My “sword” and my “shield” will be the Lord, and as long as I believe in Him, and do right by Him, I will be protected.

I am not worried about the end of days. I’m just very excited to be on my way to being put into that place in my life where God wants me to be, and, since he led me to the Catholic Church, then I know for certain that that’s where I should be.

My response to “anti-pope” christians is this: I know that you love the same God that I do, albeit, you are on a different path, and that is fine. Each must seek his or her own salvation in a different way, and I will not interfere with your search. You will find him with time, I am sure. But what proof do you have, if any, that the Catholic Church will turn against God?

Show me some literature. Something other than what is written here. Show me something in the Bible that states that the Catholic Church is corrupt. Prove to me that what you’re saying is real. Once you do that, then we’ll talk, but until then, I will continue to worship my God and my Jesus the way they want to be worshiped.

I am already having great difficulty giving up my life of sin. There are several issues that need to be addressed. I can tell you right now that I am definitely not perfect. But I do know this: the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus. Peter was its first Pope. So far, although the Bride has stumbled a few times, She has never truly fallen, and will prevail to the end.

What other Church can you prove existed before the Catholic Church? Was there anyone else besides Peter that Jesus chose to lead it? If there was a Church before the Catholic Church, what was its institution, and what was its name?

I am not asking these questions to attack anyone that is not Catholic. I am using my common sense. From what I have heard, the only stupid questions are the ones that you don’t ask. It is out of curiosity that I ask of you: was there a church that was founded before the Catholic Church, and do you have any proof? And finally, what proof do you have that the Pope of that time period of which you speak (namely, the end of days) will be so corrupt that he will assume the position of the anti-Christ and cause us all to fall?

I think that these are all questions that every christian, including all Catholics, should ask themselves.

Until (and when) we find the answers to these questions, I will continue to view any and all christians, Catholic or not, to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. To me, it is a matter of growth, and anybody who isn’t Catholic has just not grown yet to the point of practicing their faith in the original Church that Jesus founded.

Peace be with you, and God bless every Christian out there, Catholic or otherwise.
 
My reply is to stay in your own denomination that split away from us and stop trying to cause more hassle for the true church 😛
 
Samson01 said:
CCC:
The Church’s ultimate trial

675 Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.573 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth574 will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.575

676 The Antichrist’s deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,576 especially the “intrinsically perverse” political form of a secular messianism.577

va/archive/catechism/p1s2c2a7.htm
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Does this mean that the Church believes the Book of Revelation refers to events far in the future from when it was written?
 
My only thought is that whoever the anti christ will be, as I have never heard in Revelations that word anti pope, he will be a politician. They appear to be the ones who have the power to sway people.

Just reading this thread is upseting, much of Revelations is about what the early Christians were going through. There are evil leaders in every denomination and actually I find that there are many more fundamentalists who follow and almost worship some of their own leaders than any Catholics I know. Except for pew Catholics, we think for ourselves more than any fundamentalist I know.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Eutychus123 said:
Does this mean that the Church believes the Book of Revelation refers to events far in the future from when it was written?
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Not sure, but “the catholic answer is both”. Was, is now and shall ever be…🙂
 
This raises the question: I have read the part of the prayer: What was, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

I’m not questioning the Bible’s authenticity. I’m just confused. God said that, at the end of days, the old world would fall away. In this prayer, it says “… world without end …”.

Will someone please explain what this means, so that I will understand it better?

Thank you, in advance for clearing this up for me.

Sincerely,
Tiffany

😃
 
I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the term “world without end” at the end of:

*What was, is now and ever shall be, world without end. *

Is referring to eternity post second coming.

Effectively from my knowledge the whole prayer is invoking the eternity of God who was, is and is yet to come and is as such immanent in all creation and timeless.
 
As to anti-pope christians, i just point out the justification in the bible, and after the inevitable back and forth on this i then move on to the historical facts regarding protestantism (if protestant)

I basically tell them that if Christ promised to be with us always, then where was he for all those thousands of years before the “one true church” came along. Usually the discussion then moves on to various other points of contention. I try to remain civil the whole way through despite the temperament of the other party in the conversation as well considering I want to give a good impression to them about the Catholic Church.
 
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