What is your response to Anti-Pope Christians....

[Tiffany_M_S]

What I don’t understand is why people have a notion to attack the Catholic Church concerning this issue. Nothing here is written that the Pope will become the anti-Christ. If they are so willing to look to the original and true church to blame someone, shouldn’t they also be willing to look to themselves?

I’m sorry if this offends some of the people on here. I’m not looking to start a fight. But Catholics have the right to worship and the right to exist just as much as anybody else. I once read somewhere: “The Bride is not perfect, but the Bride is beautiful.”

Yes, I know that there have been times where the people of the Church have made mistakes. Still, from what I understand, other Churches only splintered off from the original Church because they didn’t like the way that the Catholic Church did things.

I don’t always like the way my Church does things either. No invitro fertilization. Homosexuality is a sin. Liberalism is a sin. No birth control.

No, I do not like these things, and there are others that I don’t like. But I can’t just ignore my calling to be a part of the true Church just because I don’t always like the way they do things. It may mean that we disagree, but I still have to follow God’s rules.

Just because the Catholic Church does things a certain way and other churches don’t appreciate this does not mean that the Catholic Church is evil and will be turned on its head at the end of days. It just means that they have different rules for different reasons, different ways of worship for different reasons, and that it must be understood that, for whatever reason, God prefers that things are to be done in that manner. If it cannot be understood why, it must be put on faith that God is only doing what is best for His children, and that, even though we don’t understand, we still have to listen to Him.

Does a child always understand why his parents are angry when he breaks a rule? No. But upon learning that there is a specific rule going against this behavior, and that for whatever reason, this rule cannot be broken; upon learning not to break that rule, is the child not a better person for it?

The way I see it, Protestantism occurred because they didn’t appreciate the Church’s authority, so they decided to break some rules, and make some other rules of their own.

Sorry for the inflamatory remark, but I think it’s true. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, feel free to tell me.

 

[bok1]

What is your response to Christians who say that in the Book of Revelation the AntiChrist refers to the entire Papacy? I know this is a Protestant idea, I think Luther first started it, but I am interested in any responses.

7DA are leading this anti-Christ - pope attack. I advised them to study what the Bible say especially Matthew Gospel. Everything is laid out there and if these people truly believe in the word of God, rather than cling to their twisted interpretation they’ll learn the Truth.

 

[JonNC]

The way I see it, Protestantism occurred because they didn’t appreciate the Church’s authority, so they decided to break some rules, and make some other rules of their own.

Sorry for the inflamatory remark, but I think it’s true. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, feel free to tell me.

I don’t think your remarks are inflammatory, but here is my evidence to the contrary.
From the Augsburg Confessions:

Conclusion.

1] These are the chief articles which seem to be in controversy. For although we might have spoken of more abuses, yet, to avoid undue length, we have set forth the chief points, from which the rest may be readily judged. 2] There have been great complaints concerning indulgences, pilgrimages, and the abuse of excommunications. The parishes have been vexed in many ways by the dealers in indulgences. There were endless contentions between the pastors and the monks concerning the parochial right, confessions, burials, sermons on extraordinary occasions, and 3] innumerable other things. Issues of this sort we have passed over so that the chief points in this matter, having been briefly set forth, might be the more readily understood. 4] Nor has anything been here said or adduced to the reproach of any one. 5] Only those things have been recounted whereof we thought that it was necessary to speak, in order that it might be understood that in doctrine and ceremonies nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic. For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.

Clearly, they did respect Church authority, and clearly it was not a simple, “hey, let’s break some rules.”
I think, however, it is safe to say that rules were broken on both sides.

Jon

 

[Tiffany_M_S]

Okay. Fair enough. I don’t know if anything you’ve written is credible, but I’ll consider it. Then again, my one little opinion doesn’t matter in the face of millions.

 

[JonNC]

Okay. Fair enough. I don’t know if anything you’ve written is credible, but I’ll consider it. Then again, my one little opinion doesn’t matter in the face of millions.

Its a reasonable position, that you consider it, Tiffany. As to the credibility of what I written, I consider it credible that this is what the Lutheran reformers wrote, and I see no reason to doubt their honesty, even if one disagrees with their positions. As for my comment that people on both sides broke rules, I cite the Catholic Catechism 817:

But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church—for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.

I consider it credible, too.
Jon

 

[Rascalking]

My response is, “Well, your entitled your opinion. One day, we will all find out who is right and who is wrong. Until then, walk beside me and be my brother/sister in Christ!”

 

[Rence]

You’re charitable and kind Rascalking

 

[Rascalking]

You’re charitable and kind Rascalking

That was very nice of you to say. Thank you.

 

[Nicea325]

My response is, “Well, your entitled your opinion. One day, we will all find out who is right and who is wrong. Until then, walk beside me and be my brother/sister in Christ!”

It is not such much about who is right or wrong,but moreover,about the TRUTH…

 

[Rascalking]

It is not such much about who is right or wrong,but moreover,about the TRUTH…

Oh, I agree. But that doesn’t mean you should forget your manners or be nasty about anything. Remember that even athiests are loved by God. Sometimes Catholics seems more upset at other Christians than at pro-choice radicals!

 

[Nicea325]

Oh, I agree. But that doesn’t mean you should forget your manners or be nasty about anything. Remember that even athiests are loved by God. Sometimes Catholics seems more upset at other Christians than at pro-choice radicals!

Indeed my brother in Christ! I am not upset at other Christians,but more upset at Catholics who do not practice their faith…

 

[larkin31]

My response: “Are you serious?”

 

[Tiffany_M_S]

I’m sorry that my opinion is creating such a problem in this thread. Indeed, when we die, we will all know the truth. Someone once told me, “Nobody knows until they’re dead.” What I take from that is that we all have to have a little faith. We are not meant to know. Only God knows. The way I see it, what I said was wrong, and I’m sorry. But, once you think about it, we all love and believe in Christ, so, aren’t we all on the same side?

I’m sorry that my remarks caused any problems. It was not my intention.

 

[gamewell45]

What is your response to Christians who say that in the Book of Revelation the AntiChrist refers to the entire Papacy? I know this is a Protestant idea, I think Luther first started it, but I am interested in any responses.

I tell them that they should be tolerant of others who believe differently then we do.

 

[Tiffany_M_S]

I tell them that they should be tolerant of others who believe differently then we do.

I have to agree. We, as human-beings, might have our differences, but, ultimately, we have to come to God on our own. A person who once lived in my town said, “Each person must find his own salvation.”

I was a pagan for a little over ten years. I studied and practiced witchcraft, and worshiped what many would consider false gods. Often, I felt persecuted for my religion, and there was once a time where I was cornered by two people and yelled at. It was not an easy life. The man who yelled at me still lives in my apartment complex and condemns Catholics. He insists that he is right.

However, I do not believe that this is the way to approach things. God, Himself, made it known that a man or woman had to come to Him not with a knowledge of salvation, but a faith that it was there. Nobody is ever meant to know for certain, until they died and met him face to face.

Look at the examples of Mary Magdalene and St. Thomas. Mary had faith that Jesus was the true savior, and worshiped Him by bowing to Him and washing His feet with her hair, whereas Thomas wanted proof.

God does not give us scientific proof that He is here. He gives us the gifts of trust and faith.

Trust and faith are greater than any knowledge ever could be. Whereas knowledge will only inform you to prepare you that something bad is about to happen, trust and faith will get you through it.

It is my personal belief that God gave us these two gifts for that reason: that trust and faith in Him would lead to our salvation, rather, as knowledge of Him might have us come to think, “I know He is there, but I don’t like the way things are going. What if this knowledge is false? Why should I believe? Perhaps I should go down a different path, and see where it takes me?”

Yes, God gives us knowledge to prepare ourselves, but when you have trust and faith, you stand on solid ground, and you let God in, so that He will help to weather you through the storm. That’s why these two gifts are so important.

If a person is forced to attend Mass, but has not trust and faith in the Catholic Church, then it will do no good. He or she must come to know God on his or her own on their terms, on their own personal level. Only then can they open their hearts to Christ and come to realize that the Catholic Church is the true Church. Otherwise, you’re wasting their time, and they are wasting the Church’s time, as well as space in the pews.

I will say that it is helpful for one to go to Mass, so that they might get an idea as to what the Catholic Church believes. I will also say that if they have no intention, whatsoever, as to believing in the true Church and it’s doctrines, then perhaps it is not time, yet, for them to start coming to Mass.

It is a matter of personal growth, and everybody reaches their spiritual maturity at different times in their life. No one person is the same as another. The beauty of this is that we are all God’s children, and we are all unique and different individuals with different opinions and ideals as to how the world should work. Sometimes, this is good, and sometimes, this is bad, but if God intended that we all be the same, there would be no unique characteristics about any of us, and life would be meaningless. We would not learn, because nobody would be different from anybody else, and therefore, there would be no teachers. God made us all different and beautiful, and it is up to us to exercise that difference and beauty for the greater good, rather than abuse the gifts that God has given us.

Yes, it would be wonderful if all individuals would be a part of the Catholic Church. However, maybe they are not ready, and, perhaps, they need a little more time to think, ponder, consider, or to do whatever their level of growth calls for to come to God. After all, a man can only come to God on his own time on his own terms. He cannot be forced. We can, however, pray for his conversion, and know that God has a plan for this individual, and that, hopefully, sooner or later, that man will see the light of God’s wonderful plan for him. Until then, all we can do is be kind to him, understanding of him, and try to guide him to, at least, be a decent individual that does not seek to harm others. After all, isn’t that what human-beings are supposed to do? Help each other, and perhaps make each other’s lives a little better?

 

[MarkBrown]

What is your response to Christians who say that in the Book of Revelation the AntiChrist refers to the entire Papacy? I know this is a Protestant idea, I think Luther first started it, but I am interested in any responses.

My response is “The word and title Anti-Christ does not appear in the book known as The Revelation of Jesus Christ”. The title appears in the Epistles of John, usually in connection with those who deny Jesus and God are one.

Then I ask them to show me in The Revelation the Scripture verse where the word Anti-Christ is found and the verse or verses showing Anti-Christ refers to the Papacy.

Peace

Mark+

 

[Tiffany_M_S]

My response is “The word and title Anti-Christ does not appear in the book known as The Revelation of Jesus Christ”. The title appears in the Epistles of John, usually in connection with those who deny Jesus and God are one.

Then I ask them to show me in The Revelation the Scripture verse where the word Anti-Christ is found and the verse or verses showing Anti-Christ refers to the Papacy.

Peace

Mark+

Quite clever, MarkBrown. Education is one of the greatest tools that God has given us. It is a step beneath trust and faith. Education prepares us to not only give the answers needed and the research to back them up, but it also prepares us for things to come. If we were not educated about the End of Days, how would we know about the ‘Anti-Christ’ to begin with?

We know that someone evil is coming. In fact, in a way, he has always been here among us. However, the Book of Revelations acts as our armor against such a being. It prepares us for what is to come, and reminds us that trust and faith in God is our strength.

I believe that, since trust in God and faith in God are our strengths, would not also God’s Church and the way it’s set up be our strengths as well? If you look at it logically, God did not create a system that was meant to be torn down. God built this Church so that, while we are here, and when this time comes, we will be able to worship Him properly and we will be safe from evil when the lord of lies walks among us.

I guess, in a way, this is the “end game” of mankind. Those who are at the right hand of God will live. Those who are at the left hand of God will be eternally damned.

 

[Nicea325]

My response is “The word and title Anti-Christ does not appear in the book known as The Revelation of Jesus Christ”. The title appears in the Epistles of John, usually in connection with those who deny Jesus and God are one.

Then I ask them to show me in The Revelation the Scripture verse where the word Anti-Christ is found and the verse or verses showing Anti-Christ refers to the Papacy.

Peace

Mark+

Isn’t amazing what ignorance can cause people to believe? :whacky:

 

[Tiffany_M_S]

You would be surprised.

 

[MarkBrown]

I then point them to 1 John 4:3. Which plainly tells them the Anti-Christ has already appeared. Not in the future, but in the 1st Century according to the scriptures.

Some can’t handle it as accuse me of all sorts of “devilish twisting” of scripture.

Peace

Mark+