What is your take on "Jehovah's Witnesses" sect?

[Pronger1]

It’s a lot easier than you think. It’s more of a social gathering for them than preaching. They like to get in large car groups and do “return visits.” They usually only do one or two streets walking door to door. About 90% of the doors stay closed. The ones that do answer simply hear a sales pitch for the current magazines or an invitation to the memorial or convention. Serious Bible discussion is not done because the only people they will engage in conversation with are those they feel will take the magazines. Any confrontation is met with “Well have a nice day.” Then off to return visits. The way they get their hours is return visists. They literally “start their time” as soon as they get to someone’s house and count all the time driving around stopping at houses that again 90% or more are not home. The car group is sometimes as many as 6 because a lot of JWs buy minivans or large SUVs. You can easily get 2 hours of time a weekend only to stop at 1 or 2 of your Return Visits, at which you do not even speak to them.

I wouldn’t admire one thing about JWs if I was you. Their poison offsets any kind of goodness it appears they do. They only do it so that they can boast about it, not an exaggeration. We as Catholics need to strengthen our members, not go knock on random doors pitching a magazine. Get involved with Bible studies, prayer groups, whatever you have to help and be helped.

I have to disagree with this post. Going door to door is not easy. For some probably, but for most it is hard. There are a lot of people that will treat you like ****, threaten you. It isn’t just working one or two streets. There are territory cards that are checked out that contain a chunk of territory covered by that congregation. These are to be completed in about a month and then returned to the congregation.

It is also ignorant to state Jehovah’s Witnesses “only do it so they can boast about it”. There may be some like that, but most do it because they believe they are following God’s instructions. But as I said before, how often they do it in many cases is a matter of expectations by congregation elders and branch representatives.

 

[ShanPO]

In an effort to be fair, I must say I am really in awe of their passion (and the LDS’) about spreading their faith. Think of the door slams, curses, and other unchariatable responses they face. I am not sure I would have the courage or fortitude to go door-to-door for my faith. Their dedication is something I certainly admire.

Not to throw off the thread, but I did door to door ministry as a Catholic with a group called Youth for the Third Millenium. I’m a super introvert, so walking around my super-Baptist Southern Mississippi town knocking on doors and asking folks to pray with our group (that’s all we did, we didn’t push Catholicism, but answered questions if they popped up) for anything they might need prayer for. It was really just a way to get out amongst the people. So there are Catholic groups who do some door to door ministry.

 

[pacloc]

I have to disagree with this post. Going door to door is not easy. For some probably, but for most it is hard. There are a lot of people that will treat you like ****, threaten you. It isn’t just working one or two streets. There are territory cards that are checked out that contain a chunk of territory covered by that congregation. These are to be completed in about a month and then returned to the congregation.

It is also ignorant to state Jehovah’s Witnesses “only do it so they can boast about it”. There may be some like that, but most do it because they believe they are following God’s instructions. But as I said before, how often they do it in many cases is a matter of expectations by congregation elders and branch representatives.

I did it for years, so I do know what I’m talking about friend. You can make it as hard on yourself as you want, but I know for a fact that the ones doing it, at least here in South Texas, milked the time. Little kids did a lot of the work, everyone thinks it’s cute to see a little kid in a suit or dress with magazines. Maybe where your from they are more strict with territory cards, but the average Jdub just shows up on Saturday and get’s assigned to a car group and works a street or two.

I also do not like you calling me ignorant buddy. You may still be under their voodoo, so I’ll cut you some slack, but if you think Jdubs would choose to do this work out of their own free will, you’re insane. I don’t know what your definition of boast is, but it definitely is the motivation for the majority of Jdubs. Read any forum where they comment and it is always the same responses, even at meetings. “Who else is fulfilling Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.” The only reason they give for following an organization that has lied and continues to change their beliefs is this very fact that they are the only ones preaching. They use this as a weopon against anyone that tries to tell them the truth by saying “well, you still don’t go door to door preaching like JWs do”

 

[Logically]

I am an atheist but I have a habit of going to various churches to see what they say and what they are like. I actually took up the Jehovah’s Witnesses on their invitation one time …
… Not all their services are open to the public. Only ones which nonmembers are invited to. (At least, that is the impression that I got …)
… The literature they have is incredibly simplified and one-directional. It asks questions then answers them with simple, Bible-based rationales,…

It is a centralized, secretive system which is designed to attract and control people who are reluctant to think for themselves, in my opinion.

It is worth pointing out that some of the criticism I have of the JW is the same as that which I have of the Catholic Church. … I would point out that many of the things which Catholics in this thread have said about the JWs could easily be said about themselves. …any person with some tolerant fair-mindedness will recognize that all religions seem weird or wrong to those who are not practitioners of them. …

Criticize their ethical stances, if you like. Criticize their social systems … their proselytization … their literature, … their centralized, secretive hierarchy, as I have. But criticizing their religious beliefs seems silly and small, at least to a nonbeliever like myself.

Hi Churchatheist.
Your post 166 is the most interesting I have read in a while. Supported by the fact no one else has touched it!

How dare you make sense when the subject has become “Why JW’s are wicked.”!

You sound an open minded person if – even though you don’t believe in God – you are prepared to consider different beliefs.

Though you call us a “secretive system”. We are not.
Apart from some special meetings that are invite only (like for pioneers or elders) all our meetings and assemblies are open to the public. Our literature does not cost and is freely available at JW.org.
How much less secretive could an organisation be than having all it’s members going out publicly and saying: “Can we please explain all our beliefs to you and show you the evidence we think supports it? We will do it free of charge.”

May I ask: Why do you go and investigate different religions? I find it most fascinating.

 

[po18guy]

Hi Churchatheist.
Your post 166 is the most interesting I have read in a while. Supported by the fact no one else has touched it!

Sorry to burst your bubble, but look again.

Catholics here do not (and cannot) deny the problematic history of the Church. What we challenge is the absolute, 100% lack of foundation under the ever-morphing mandated beliefs of the Watchtower Corporation. The litany of 100% failed “prophesies.” The nonsensicality of WT dogma. Its fluid nature. Things like that.

 

[Logically]

What is your take on “Jehovah’s Witnesses” sect other than not considering JESUS as GOD?

Because I personally admire their ethics compared to some other Christian sects:

• Homosexual activity/same-sex marriages are forbidden.
• Abortion is considered a murder.
• Modesty in dress and grooming is frequently emphasized.
• Gambling, drunkenness, illegal drugs, and tobacco use are forbidden.
• Drinking of alcoholic beverages is permitted in moderation.

It is strange isn’t it. You would expect other churches to applaud their insistance on high morals. But instead many (who also claim to follow Jesus) are obsessed with dis-crediting the JW’s.
I have seen ones rake through 100 years of Watchtower articles looking for errors, or who have tried to make the JW’s unique stand against Nazi Germany sound like support!

Why?

The Watchtower actually addressed this in an article a few years ago called:
“Why are Jesus true followers hated?” (assuming JW’s are true followers of Jesus, the principles apply)

You can find the full article here if you want to read it:
wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102011168?q=pilate+jealousy&p=par

But basically it gave three reasons:

quotes from this article in blue
(and since the article is from the WT there are many quotes from the Bible in “speech marks”)

Jesus said to his faithful apostles: “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:20,*21) But why would people hate those who obey Jesus and try to be like him? …

The Bible reveals specific reasons for that hatred. …
Opposers May Act in Ignorance
Jesus said to his followers: “The hour is coming when everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.” (John 16:2,*3) …

So some genuinely believe the JW’s are working against God and therefore speak against them. Or they have heard false reports by critics about how horrible we are and believe those.

Second:

Many who opposed Jesus did so out of envy.
Indeed, Roman governor Pontius Pilate “was aware that because of envy the chief priests had handed [Jesus] over” to be impaled. (Mark 15:9,*10) Why were the Jewish religious leaders envious of Christ? One factor was his popularity with the common people,…

Again. Since the JW’s are having success and are growing in numbers, many are envious of this. (or threatened) No other religion can motivate all it’s members to go and preach about what they believe. And people who listen often become convince also!

(We had better find an excuse to discredit them! Say they changed the Bible or something! )

Other enemies resented the good conduct of God’s servants. To fellow Christians, the apostle Peter said: “Because you do not continue running with them [the wicked] in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you.” (1*Peter 4:4)

Many (even religious people) no longer live by the standards set out in the Bible. (I have workmates who say they are Catholic, but live in fornication, get drunk and swear.) But the JW’s will not tolerate such behavior.

Hated for Being “No Part of the World”
“Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world,” the Bible says. (1*John 2:15) …
Jesus said to his apostles: “If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you.”—John 15:19… the Witnesses are convinced that only God’s Kingdom, his government by Christ, will bring lasting peace and happiness to the earth. (Matthew 6:9,*10) Hence, they will continue to proclaim that Kingdom, viewing God’s approval as far more important than that of men.

This was the one that got the witnesses in trouble with the Nazis. (and the USSR, North Korea, and others) All the other churches towed the line, but the JW’s refused to compromise.
Many religious people are very involved in the world today. They vote, stand for office, fight and kill for their political factions . etc…
But the JW’s take seriously Jesus stand of being “no part” of Satans world.

What option is there left but opposition to them?

Am I wrong?

 

[waxwings]

What is your take on “Jehovah’s Witnesses” sect other than not considering JESUS as GOD?

Because I personally admire their ethics compared to some other Christian sects:

• Homosexual activity/same-sex marriages are forbidden.
• Abortion is considered a murder.
• Modesty in dress and grooming is frequently emphasized.
• Gambling, drunkenness, illegal drugs, and tobacco use are forbidden.
• Drinking of alcoholic beverages is permitted in moderation.

My only take on them that they emphasis on the name of GOD to be “Jehovah”, which I believe it should not, because GOD is universal, every nation could call Him by their native language!

Yet another anti Catholic Protestant heretical self made sect of the highest heretical degree.

I just wonder how many marriages these heretics have broken up going around the doors,spreading their evil false doctrines ,to those in a happy marriage who dont have much knowledge of Christian Faith.

They and the Mormons must be the most false of the false Protestant prophet sects ,which Jesus told us to beware of.

Faith of our Fathers living still,in spite of dungeon fire and sword.
St John Ogilvie,Pray For Us

 

[Logically]

Yet another anti Catholic Protestant heretical self made sect of the highest heretical degree.

Actually Jehovah’s Witnesses are not protestants.

here is a link to JW.org where JW’s explain why from the Bible:

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-protestants/

…how many marriages these heretics have broken up going around the doors,spreading their evil false doctrines…
… the most false of the false Protestant prophet sects …
…

But I guess with language like that I can’t expect you to be open to reason.

 

[Logically]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but look again.

Catholics here do not (and cannot) deny the problematic history of the Church.

Good. problematic is a polite word for it.

What we challenge is the absolute, 100% lack of foundation under the ever-morphing mandated beliefs of the Watchtower Corporation. The litany of 100% failed “prophesies.” The nonsensicality of WT dogma. Its fluid nature. Things like that.

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies. That is because they have made no prophesies at all!
They have simply tried to understand what the Bible says. Never have they claimed to be infallible or speaking directly from Jehovah (like the Bible writers did)

The WT publications candidly say:

It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) (Revelation book)

Sometimes their understanding has not been completely accurate. They have never been afraid to change their understandings if that is the case.
What does the Bible (God’s word) teach? That is what is important.

The rediculous alternative would be to keep teaching things after the religion has realized they are not in the Bible!
That would really create a problematic history!

 

[po18guy]

Good. problematic is a polite word for it.

Even that horrible history is far more forgivable than leading souls to the very same hell that they are told not to believe in! If there is no hell, what in hell was Jesus talking about?

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies. That is because they have made no prophesies at all!

Is this the spin that the Corporation has told you? Pure nonsense. As I see it, a corporation which is so chronically and utterly incompetent at understanding scripture does not warrant your faith! But, as we regularly see, logic, reason and truth do not matter to the “true believer.”

Catholic Answers founder Karl Keating once described a debate he was involved in with members of the Iglesia ni Cristo (a secretive, JW-like cult in the Philippines). As their beliefs were disproved, the suddenly threatening, glassy-eyed stares of the true believers was frightening.

 

[po18guy]

They and the Mormons must be the most false of the false Protestant prophet sects ,which Jesus told us to beware of.

Neither group is Christian, as they deny the eternal and divine nature of Christ, just as the devil did (Matthew 4:3, Luke 4:3). They are merely name-droppers.

Faith of our Fathers living still, in spite of dungeon, fire and sword.
St John Ogilvie,Pray For Us

 

[Matt_Guitar_Man]

Good. problematic is a polite word for it.

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies. That is because they have made no prophesies at all!
They have simply tried to understand what the Bible says. Never have they claimed to be infallible or speaking directly from Jehovah (like the Bible writers did)

The WT publications candidly say:

It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) (Revelation book)

Sometimes their understanding has not been completely accurate. They have never been afraid to change their understandings if that is the case.
What does the Bible (God’s word) teach? That is what is important.

The rediculous alternative would be to keep teaching things after the religion has realized they are not in the Bible!
That would really create a problematic history!

Ahh Logically your back! The one big problem with what you have written here Logically is that the JW’s make a very big deal of being the sole possess of the “Truth” and teaching the truth when in fact from what your saying is that they teach what they believe to be the truth at the time and that this truth is subject to change. One cant have it both ways. And from what you are saying they really teach an ideology that is subject to mutation and variation. Which is not the same as teaching the eternal truth of God at all.
Also in your last few posts just like the parent body the, Watch Tower ,a lot of what you have said is skewed for example the JW’s and Nazi Germany. The JW’s were imprisoned by the legally elected government not because of their religious views but because of subversive activities against the state, they same way they were outlawed in Aus and NZ during WW2 not because of religion but because of subversive undermining activities at a time of national emergency. There is a big difference.
I think you will find that most here at this forum could not give two hoots about what JW’s choose to believe however I think all at this forum feel compelled to challenge dishonesty, and it is the dishonest way that JW’s present there own teaching and history and the dishonest way they misrepresent other religious beliefs and in particular the Catholic Faith that can not go unaddressed. And I am sure we would all have a lot less criticism of the JW’s if they came to our doors and told the truth which from what you say is " We have a belief about the Bible and God which at this point in time we hold to be true however it may change in the future, so in truth we can not be 100% sure that what we are teaching at the moment is truth because it may actually turn out to be error".

 

[Pronger1]

Due to the length, this is part one of three in response to “Logically”.

It is strange isn’t it. You would expect other churches to applaud their insistance on high morals. But instead many (who also claim to follow Jesus) are obsessed with dis-crediting the JW’s.

Jehovah’s Witnesses do the exact same thing even going as far as calling all other religions the WHORE OF BABYLON.

I have seen ones rake through 100 years of Watchtower articles looking for errors, or who have tried to make the JW’s unique stand against Nazi Germany sound like support!

Why?

I’d suggest you look in the 1934 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses and read the Declaration of Facts written by Judge Rutherford to Adolf Hilter. It is most blatantly an attempt to appease Nazi Germany.

I’ll save you a bit of time by pasting a large portion of it below. I will also underline the most disgusting of statements by Rutherford.

"It is falsely charged by our enemies that we have received financial support for our work from the Jews. Nothing is farther from the truth. Up to this hour there never has been the slightest bit of money contributed to our work by Jews. We are the faithful followers of Christ Jesus and believe upon Him as the Savior of the world, whereas the Jews entirely reject Jesus Christ and emphatically deny that he is the Savior of the world sent of God for man’s good. This of itself should be sufficient proof to show that we receive no support from Jews and that therefore the charges against us are maliciously false and could proceed only from Satan, our great enemy. The greatest and the most oppressive empire on earth is the Anglo-American empire. By that is meant the British Empire, of which the United States of America forms a part. It has been the commercial Jews of the British-American empire that have built up and carried on Big Business as a means of exploiting and oppressing the peoples of many nations. This fact particularly applies to the cities of London and New York, the stronghold of Big Business. This fact is so manifest in America that there is a proverb concerning the city of New York which says: The Jews own it, the Irish Catholics rule it, and the Americans pay the bills.

The present government of Germany has declared emphatically against Big Business oppressors and in opposition to the wrongful religious influence in the political affairs of the nations. Such is exactly our position.

Instead of being against the principles advocated by the government of Germany, we stand squarely for such principles, and point out that Jehovah God through Christ Jesus will bring about the full realization of these principles and will give to the people peace and prosperity and the greatest desire of every honest heart.

A careful examination of our books and literature will disclose the fact that the very high ideals held and promulgated by the present national government are set forth in and endorsed and strongly emphasized in our publications and show that Jehovah God will see to it that these high ideals in due time will be attained by all persons who love righteousness.

Let us remind the government and the people of Germany, that it was the League of Nations compact that laid upon the shoulders of the German people the great unjust and unbearable burdens. That the League of Nations compact was not brought forth by the friends of Germany." *Yearbook 1934 pp.134-138 (English Edition) *

 

[Pronger1]

The Watchtower actually addressed this in an article a few years ago called:
“Why are Jesus true followers hated?” (assuming JW’s are true followers of Jesus, the principles apply)

You can find the full article here if you want to read it:
wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102011168?q=pilate+jealousy&p=par

But basically it gave three reasons:

quotes from this article in blue
(and since the article is from the WT there are many quotes from the Bible in “speech marks”)

Jesus said to his faithful apostles: “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” (John 15:20,*21) But why would people hate those who obey Jesus and try to be like him? …

The Bible reveals specific reasons for that hatred. …
Opposers May Act in Ignorance
Jesus said to his followers: “The hour is coming when everyone that kills you will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me.” (John 16:2,*3) …

None of this is unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Other faiths have been persecuted for their beliefs long before the Jehovah’s Witness religion was ever formed.

So some genuinely believe the JW’s are working against God and therefore speak against them. Or they have heard false reports by critics about how horrible we are and believe those.

Again, nothing unique about Jehovah’s Witnesses here. Jehovah’s Witnesses are also guilty of false claims about others and themselves.

“Third, unlike the Protestant movement, which has splintered into hundreds of denominations, Jehovah’s Witnesses have maintained a united global brotherhood.” Watchtower 2009 Nov 1 p.19

This statement is completely false. There are multiple splinter groups from Jehovah’s Witnesses. Here are just a few:

•The True Faith Jehovah’s Witnesses
•Bible Fellowship Union
•God’s Kingdom Society
•Christian Witnesses
•The Lord’s Witnesses
•Phoenix Bible Students
•Chicago Bible Students
•Baltimore Bible Students

Second:

Many who opposed Jesus did so out of envy

.
Indeed, Roman governor Pontius Pilate “was aware that because of envy the chief priests had handed [Jesus] over” to be impaled. (Mark 15:9,*10) Why were the Jewish religious leaders envious of Christ? One factor was his popularity with the common people,…

Again. Since the JW’s are having success and are growing in numbers, many are envious of this. (or threatened) No other religion can motivate all it’s members to go and preach about what they believe. And people who listen often become convince also!

Not even all of Jehovah’s Witnesses go door to door.

Between 2006-2010 there were 1,406,910 baptized. Yet there was only an increase of 733,155 publishers. Total preaching hours over this 5 year period were 8,107,002,998. That means there were an average of 5,762 hours preaching for each new baptized member and 11,058 hours preaching for each new publisher. These numbers don’t exactly back your claim of “people who listen often become convince also!” Often is far from the correct word.

Also the Bible states in Ephesians 4:11, that not even Jesus thought everyone is cut out for door to door ministry.

11 And he gave some as apostles, some as prophets, some as evangelizers, some as shepherds and teachers

It doesn’t say everyone would be evangelizers.

(We had better find an excuse to discredit them! Say they changed the Bible or something! )

Now that you mention it, lol. Just to name a few experts.

Dr. Jason Debuhn in his 2004 study Truth in Translation: Accuracy and Bias in English Translations of the New Testament said the introduction of the name “Jehovah” into the New Testament 237 times was “not accurate translation by the most basic principle of accuracy”, and that it “violate accuracy in favor of denominationally preferred expressions for God”, adding that for the NWT to gain wider acceptance and prove its worth its translators might have to abandon the use of “Jehovah” in the New Testament.

Dr. William Barclay said “the deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in the New Testament translation. … It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest.”

Other enemies resented the good conduct of God’s servants. To fellow Christians, the apostle Peter said: “Because you do not continue running with them [the wicked] in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you.” (1*Peter 4:4)

Many (even religious people) no longer live by the standards set out in the Bible. (I have workmates who say they are Catholic, but live in fornication, get drunk and swear.) But the JW’s will not tolerate such behavior.

It is obvious from the great number of Jehovah’s Witnesses disfellowshipped every year that not all Jehovah’s Witnesses “live by the standards set out in the Bible.”

We are all sinners, even Jehovah’s Witnesses. Not a single one of us lives up to the standards of the Bible. It takes great pride for any imperfect person to make a claim that they do. That in itself is a sin as only Jesus has done so.

 

[Pronger1]

Hated for Being “No Part of the World”
“Do not be loving either the world or the things in the world,” the Bible says. (1*John 2:15) …
Jesus said to his apostles: “If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you.”—John 15:19… the Witnesses are convinced that only God’s Kingdom, his government by Christ, will bring lasting peace and happiness to the earth. (Matthew 6:9,*10) Hence, they will continue to proclaim that Kingdom, viewing God’s approval as far more important than that of men.

This was the one that got the witnesses in trouble with the Nazis. (and the USSR, North Korea, and others) All the other churches towed the line, but the JW’s refused to compromise.

See the Declaration of Facts written to Adolph Hilter that I mentioned above.

Also there was another gem written in 1943 by the President (Gammenthaler) and the Secretary (Wiedenmann) of the Swiss branch to the Nazis which in part stated:

"We expressly state, that our association neither commands nor recommends, nor in any other way suggests, acting against military orders. Questions of that sort are dealt with neither by our congregations nor in the Society’s published literature. We do not at all concern ourselves with such questions. We view our business to be solely that of rendering a witness to Jehovah God and to proclaim bible truth to all peoples. Hundreds of our members and fellow believers have performed their military duty and continue to do so.

We have at no time presumed and at no time shall do so, to view the performance of military duty, as laid down by your statutes, as an offence against the principles and aspirations of the association of Jehovah’s Witnesses. "

That is clearly another appeasement attempt.

Many religious people are very involved in the world today. They vote, stand for office, fight and kill for their political factions . etc…
But the JW’s take seriously Jesus stand of being “no part” of Satans world.

What option is there left but opposition to them?

Regarding voting, the 1999 11/1 Watchtower pg 28-29 Questions from the Readers states it is a matter of conscience. You can look this up, but again I will quote from it in part.

"In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah’s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator. "

"There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12. "

Considering the Watchtower Society changes their beliefs at a drop of the hat, and that voting has flopped back and for between being banned and being a conscience matter multiple times over the decades, perhaps there is a different view in 2014.

What did John the Baptist say in the 3rd chapter of Luke? Taken from your own Bible…

12 Even tax collectors came to be baptized, and they said to him: “Teacher, what should we do?” 13 He said to them: “Do not demand* anything more than the tax rate.” 14 Also, those in military service were asking him: “What should we do?” And he said to them: “Do not harass* anybody or accuse anybody falsely, but be satisfied with your provisions.”

Do the scriptures say that John told those in the military service to quit after they were baptized? No he did not.

Also read Romans 13:1-3, again taken from your Bible.

13 Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2 Therefore, whoever opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. 3 For those rulers are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it;

Am I wrong?

Yes, about a great many things in your post.

I had originally composed a much longer and detailed response, but I lost it in the submission process and had to start over again. This however I believe is an adequate response.

 

[po18guy]

I think that we should take it easy on the JWs. I mean, with that new bible version and the reform movement gaining, they’ll have new beliefs in a couple of years anyway.

 

[Pronger1]

Good. problematic is a polite word for it.

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies. That is because they have made no prophesies at all!
They have simply tried to understand what the Bible says. Never have they claimed to be infallible or speaking directly from Jehovah (like the Bible writers did)

The WT publications candidly say:

It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) (Revelation book)

Sometimes their understanding has not been completely accurate. They have never been afraid to change their understandings if that is the case.
What does the Bible (God’s word) teach? That is what is important.

The rediculous alternative would be to keep teaching things after the religion has realized they are not in the Bible!
That would really create a problematic history!

No prophecies? Charles Russell published a timeline showing Armageddon would come in 1914 and that the 1000 year reign would end in 2914.

Seems like I can’t paste an image directly so here is a link.

s10.postimg.org/tdqqo11g9/russell_timetable.jpg

In the January 1, 1989 Watchtower page 12, the Watchtower Society said the preaching work would end in the 20th century.
[s11.postimg.org/52erqjtv7/watchtower_1989_jan_1_p12_mag.jpg](http://s11.postimg.org/52erqjtv7/watchtower_1989_jan_1_p12_mag.jpg)
But then later in the published bound volume, they tried to hide this teaching.
[s17.postimg.org/fn79ehqjz/watchtower_1989_jan_1_p12_bound.jpg](http://s17.postimg.org/fn79ehqjz/watchtower_1989_jan_1_p12_bound.jpg)
That is blatantly dishonest to go back and edit the text without making mention of the change.

These are just a couple examples of prophecies made by the Watchtower Society.

Just as disturbing is their placing a higher value on their publications than the Bible.

“Not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the Scripture Studies aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years - if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and had not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures.” - Watchtower 9/15/1910 pg. 298

“From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah’s people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude… They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,’ they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom’s clergy were teaching 100 years ago…” (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981, p. 29).

It is clear that the Watchtower Society believes it is more important to read their publications than the Bible. Repeatedly they have published that if one relies on reading the Bible without the Watchtower publications they begin believing what “Christendom” does.

 

[Pronger1]

Actually Jehovah’s Witnesses are not protestants.

here is a link to JW.org where JW’s explain why from the Bible:

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-protestants/

But I guess with language like that I can’t expect you to be open to reason.

That article in your link is quite a bit misleading. Especially this quote.

“We do not protest against or attempt to reform the Catholic Church or any other religious group.”

You can hear yourself from the mouth of Judge Rutherford, his own words bashing religion.

archive.org/details/ReligionIsASnareAndARacket

That lecture was recording was played on phonographs and from sound cards to people at their homes and on the streets.

Here is an image of a sound car.

s12.postimg.org/4eu831dv1/soundcar.jpg

Here also is an image of Jehovah’s Witnesses marching while holding signs in protest against religion.

s24.postimg.org/e35p20e39/religionsnareracket.jpg

 

[Brendan_64]

I think the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a well-meaning group of people trying to spread what they see as the word of God. I view them as a ‘quasi-Christian’ faith, and admire their missionary zeal. They are wrong in much of what they believe, but then so are non-Christian faiths, and we ought not to be singling out the Jehovah’s Witness.

Despite their being wrong on much of what they believe, there is also good in some of what they believe. All good comes from God and there will be elements of truth in some of what they preach. We ought to deal with the Jehovah Witnesses in a spirit of charity.

 

[pacloc]

“No other religion can motivate all it’s members to go and preach about what they believe. And people who listen often become convince also!*”

See Pronger, I just got through talking about this.

Good to see you back Logically, you were gone for a while. What’s your take on the whole resurrection that leads to another life to be judged from. You really buy that?