What is your take on "Jehovah's Witnesses" sect?

[Logically]

“No other religion can motivate all it’s members to go and preach about what they believe. And people who listen often become convince also!*”

See Pronger, I just got through talking about this.

Good to see you back Logically, you were gone for a while. What’s your take on the whole resurrection that leads to another life to be judged from. You really buy that?

Hello again.

I have had no internet for over a month so have not had the luxury of going on a forum.

I see my comments have immediately stirred up a hornets nest with the serial “anti-JW’s” people again.
Interestingly many of the same names are here who were fiercely refuting my posts two months ago when I tried to defend the JW’s! Is this their favourite subject? (They have even got some of their stored quotes from their “info to attack JWs” folder on their desktops.) Or do you use the myriad anti-JW’s websites to find them? (some people on those have got excellent collections for all sorts of subjects)

I look for threads discussing JW’s for obvious reasons. - because I love talking about what the Bible says, and to try to answer misconceptions about us or defend false or half-true accusations. (as we can see there are alot of accusations ready to fly at a moments notice!)

may I ask:
Why do some of you guys focus on the same threads? What is your real intention?

Apologies gentle people, but there is no way I can answer all those accusations at once. It would take a week to write all the posts - and this thread is about “other peoples take on JW’s”
I should not dominate it trying to unravel all those accusations.

I will pick one post (from one who seems to be genuinely interested in the answer) and try to explain JW’s understanding. using the Bible as an authority.

All the best friends. Happy posting.
Apologies if what I say gets people angry.

Logically

 

[Logically]

I think the Jehovah’s Witnesses are a well-meaning group of people trying to spread what they see as the word of God. I view them as a ‘quasi-Christian’ faith, and admire their missionary zeal. They are wrong in much of what they believe, but then so are non-Christian faiths, and we ought not to be singling out the Jehovah’s Witness.

Despite their being wrong on much of what they believe, there is also good in some of what they believe. All good comes from God and there will be elements of truth in some of what they preach. We ought to deal with the Jehovah Witnesses in a spirit of charity.

Thank you. That is a nice post.

 

[Logically]

Not to throw off the thread, but I did door to door ministry as a Catholic with a group called Youth for the Third Millenium. I’m a super introvert, so walking around my super-Baptist Southern Mississippi town knocking on doors and asking folks to pray with our group (that’s all we did, we didn’t push Catholicism, but answered questions if they popped up) for anything they might need prayer for. It was really just a way to get out amongst the people. So there are Catholic groups who do some door to door ministry.

Wow. That must have been an experience!

How did it go? Did you get much grief?

 

[ShanPO]

Wow. That must have been an experience!

How did it go? Did you get much grief?

It went well. Since all we wanted to do was pray with people, they tended to be fairly open to us. It’s not often when you see a group of 4 or 5 19 year old guys show up at your door and ask to pray.

 

[waxwings]

Actually Jehovah’s Witnesses are not protestants.

The Bible they read is certainly the Protestant Bible of the heretic Martin Luther,not the true Catholic Jerusalem,you dont claim to be Protestant but idirectly you are a Protestant sect with many Protestant Doctrines,and anti Catholic bias comment in your Watchtower Magazine

here is a link to JW.org where JW’s explain why from the Bible:

I dont read the protestant Bible

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-protestants/

Read,Catholic Truth Society,The Incredible Creed Of Jehovah’s Witnesses,Dr L Rumble MSC

But I guess with language like that I can’t expect you to be open to reason.

I dont call it reason when your heretical sect break uo the happy marriages of those with little faith,I call it going beyond reason why such a sect go round the doors executing such injuries to people in contented happy marriages

 

[benhur]

I think you find you have confused the Jehovah Witnesses with the Mormans - Joseph Smith was the founder of the Mormans, it was Charles Taze Russell who was the founder of the Jehovah Witnesses. That said I don’t believe it is our place to judge another persons belief system.

Pax et Bonum

what do you mean by judge ?

 

[waxwings]

Good. problematic is a polite word for it.

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies. That is because they have made no prophesies at all!
They have simply tried to understand what the Bible says. Never have they claimed to be infallible or speaking directly from Jehovah (like the Bible writers did)

The JW have proclaimed in various times that the world would end,we are still here,your religion is false your doctrines false,your prophets false,all religions prophesise,(example we can go to Heaven)

The WT publications candidly say:

It is not claimed that the explanations in this publication are infallible. Like Joseph of old, we say: “Do not interpretations belong to God?” (Genesis 40:8) (Revelation book)

Sometimes their understanding has not been completely accurate. They have never been afraid to change their understandings if that is the case.
What does the Bible (God’s word) teach? That is what is important.

The rediculous alternative would be to keep teaching things after the religion has realized they are not in the Bible!
That would really create a problematic history!

 

[Logically]

That article in your link is quite a bit misleading. Especially this quote.

“We do not protest against or attempt to reform the Catholic Church or any other religious group.”

You can hear yourself from the mouth of Judge Rutherford, his own words bashing religion
…

Here also is an image of Jehovah’s Witnesses marching while holding signs in protest against religion.

s24.postimg.org/e35p20e39/religionsnareracket.jpg

Hi Pronger1.

yes. Those were the days!

The JW’s would set up and declare what the churches taught as false with scathing language. (lets see if I can post an image)
https://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1290&bih=683&q=jehovah+preaching+signs&oq=jehovah+preaching+signs&gs_l=img.3...961.20558.0.21278.29.18.1.10.0.3.577.5879.2j3j3j1j6j3.18.0....0...1ac.1.38.img..20.9.1670.LUsA6X9bheo#hl=en&q=jehovah%20snare%20racket&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgrc=t2pKaHcwv0Q0dM%3A%3BhGf9pBUQRS4o_M%3Bhttp%3A%2F%2Fhomepage.ntlworld.com%2Fjuniorelvis%2Fprivate%2Freligion%2520is%2520a%2520snare%2520and%2520a%2520racket.jpg%

The clergy would organise mobs to beat them up.

https://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=...#hl=en&q=jehovah snare racket&tbm=isch&facrc=&imgdii=&imgrc=ROxX1iSEMXYHyM%253A%3BNETyF6FXu9Dd1M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ffiles.abovetopsecret.com%252Fimages%252Fmember%252Ffdec339a97e6.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.abovetopsecret.com%252Fforum%252Fthread668332%252Fpg1%3B1024%3B687

Both sides tactics would not be approved of today. I guess we have all become a bit more polite.

But the JW’s have never been afraid to change their beliefs if they realise they are not correct.
(the rediculous alternative would be to keep believing something you now realise is wrong)

That is acknowledged here in a recent article on JW.org.

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/changed-bible-beliefs/

Incidentally, did you know JW.org is now the most translated website in the world? The UN site has 6 languages. Google 71, Wikipedia 287 – but JW.org over 300!

And of course their preaching work still dwarfs anything any other religion attempts. I’m not trying to show off here, but what does this mean?
Jesus prophesied (not the WT, though they try to understand what he was talking about) at Matt 24:14 “that the good news of the kingdom would be preached in all the earth before the end.”
Is that happening now?

I’m afraid I find that hard to explain away. (Maybe another religion will start doing an even greater teaching work soon? Maybe baptising a billion at birth is the preaching work Jesus was talking about? )
Actually another change in doctrine the JW’s made: in Russels day they thought the fact the Bible was available in most languages was the preaching work. Partly because they could not have imagined 8 million active in the work 100 years later.

Anyway. What about yourself? You seem to have lost faith in the JW religion for various reasons.
May I ask: Have you found the real true religion?

 

[benhur]

Good. problematic

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies

 

[Logically]

It went well. Since all we wanted to do was pray with people, they tended to be fairly open to us. It’s not often when you see a group of 4 or 5 19 year old guys show up at your door and ask to pray.

Certainly not. Very impressive. I think few would be that brave.

Apart from Mormons, I have never seen another religion call on peoples houses.

Does your group do it often?

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Certainly not. Very impressive. I think few would be that brave.

Apart from Mormons, I have never seen another religion call on peoples houses.

Does your group do it often?

A few kids from either a Baptist or non-denom church knocked at my door one day.

 

[waxwings]

Neither group is Christian, as they deny the eternal and divine nature of Christ, just as the devil did (Matthew 4:3, Luke 4:3). They are merely name-droppers.

Mormon Joseph Smith grew up in atmosphere of Protestant revivalism and declared that he was left bewildered by claims of other Protestant sects.Like so many protestants before him he sought a solution by abandoning all others and setting up a Church of his own thus adding one more outcrop of Protestantism.Mormonism is entirely the result of Protestant principles of private judgement operating in a purely Protestant environment His movement was reaction against confusion of Protestantism ,a fundamentalist Protestantism type.the only religion he knew,that he added the book of Mormon and other revelations he imagned were granted to himself----The Mormons,By Dr.L. Rumble.MSC. Catholic Truth Society.

JW indirectly are Protestant as many of their false doctrines are interpreted from Proteststant Bible.

Both sects may? or may not be Christian? but many of their false doctrines are false and interpreted from Protestant Bible

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Hi Churchatheist.
Your post 166 is the most interesting I have read in a while. Supported by the fact no one else has touched it!

I touched on it, on post 175.

 

[po18guy]

JW indirectly are Protestant as many of their false doctrines are interpreted from Proteststant Bible.

Both sects may? or may not be Christian? but many of their false doctrines are false and interpreted from Protestant Bible

The Church recognizes neither baptism, since an eternal, divine Christ is not invoked in either. Thus, if it is not a Christian baptism, those groups are not Christian. The evil one leads astray by inciting them to use the Name.

 

[po18guy]

I touched on it, on post 175.

I pointed this out to him/her (post 184), but I suspect that you may no longer exist, as a “turncoat” to their organization. I offered to cut and paste or paraphrase your post if that would make it acceptable, but still no response. This, after he/she mused about no alleged Catholic response to post 166.

Poor souls.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

In fact, the Witnesses have made no false prophecies. That is because they have made no prophesies at all!

They have simply tried to understand what the Bible says. Never have they claimed to be infallible or speaking directly from Jehovah (like the Bible writers did)

They don’t use those words, but they don’t allow you to believe otherwise. The definition of “infallible” is: “incapable of making mistakes or being wrong.” But if you use synonyms for the word and outwardly claim that the Governing Body’s teachings are incorrect, won’t you get disfellowshipped for it?

What happens if you, Logically, stand up in front of the congregation and say:

“I believe the current teaching of the Governing Body is mistaken and wrong and that God is not using them to teach us.”

Don’t you have to accept what they teach as coming from God? Yes or no?

The Watchtower April 1, 1972, pp.197-199 has an article entitled, “They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them.” In it the Watchtower teaches that once Armageddon begins, people will know that Jehovah’s Witnesses were speaking for God, that the

“group of anointed followers of Jesus Christ, doing a work in Christendom paralleling Ezekiel’s work among the Jews, were manifestly the modern-day Ezekiel, the ‘prophet’ commissioned by Jehovah to declare the good news of God’s Messianic kingdom and to give warning to Christendom.”

In a previous thread, Logically had stated that his religion never claimed to be a prophet, so that it was okay that they have been wrong about so many dates they have set for time in which they claimed Jehovah would act.

But as this Watchtower article and the 1971 book published by the Witnesses entitled, “The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah–How?” clearly state, the Witnesses have claimed that they are Jehovah’s modern-day prophet, the sole mouthpiece for God.

Regardless if they use the word “infallible,” “inspired” or not, they do claim to be God’s sole channel, God’s mouthpiece, God’s prophet.

And when a prophet speaks, regardless if it is about the future, isn’t still considered prophesying? Don’t the Witnesses claim that the “anointed” are the “two witnesses” of Revelation 11 who “prophesy for 1,260” days? Was that prophesying in Revelation chapter 11 about foretelling the future, or isn’t it just speaking God’s message?

Since the Witnesses claim to be the modern-day Ezekiel prophet, connect themselves to fulfillment of Revelation 11’s two witnesses who “prophesy,” then how can Logically’s statements be made to coincide with what the Governing Body really teaches?

Either Logically is not a true JW, or he doesn’t know his religion well, because Watchtower publications clearly teach that the Anointed Remnant is God’s modern-day prophet, and that they are the only ones who speak the truth from Jehovah.

You can’t claim to be the sole channel of communication of Jehovah and at the same time say you do not get your information directly from Jehovah.

 

[adf417]

Hello again.

I have had no internet for over a month so have not had the luxury of going on a forum.

Hi and great to see you back again. I hope you can stay with us this time.

I see my comments have immediately stirred up a hornets nest with the serial “anti-JW’s” people again.
Interestingly many of the same names are here who were fiercely refuting my posts two months ago when I tried to defend the JW’s! Is this their favourite subject? (They have even got some of their stored quotes from their “info to attack JWs” folder on their desktops.) Or do you use the myriad anti-JW’s websites to find them? (some people on those have got excellent collections for all sorts of subjects)

This hornet would STILL like answers to questions you promised months ago. No. I wont re-post them here as you have proven on the last two threads by not answering them on one thread and moving to another thread it is difficult to keep up with referring back to previous thread posts and then you just drop out. The previous threads are still open for posting and rebuttals.

may I ask:
Why do some of you guys focus on the same threads? What is your real intention?

Hmmmm! Answers?

Apologies gentle people, but there is no way I can answer all those accusations at once. It would take a week to write all the posts - and this thread is about “other peoples take on JW’s”
I should not dominate it trying to unravel all those accusations.

I truly am sorry if I sound a bit apathetic here, but this is exactly what you have said before. My being understanding and patient at the time did not result in answers then.

All the best friends. Happy posting.
Apologies if what I say gets people angry.

And I will try to glean actual answers from what you do say.

Peace!!!

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Incidentally, did you know JW.org is now the most translated website in the world? The UN site has 6 languages. Google 71, Wikipedia 287 – but JW.org over 300!

This is not correct. Neither JW.org or the Governing Body ever stated this. Nor is there a site that is “the most translated website in the world.”

The JW.org merely states:

If you click on the jw.org site language list on this page, you will see a list of over 300 languages—something that you are unlikely to find on any other website!

How does that number compare to other well-known sites? Consider: As of July 2013, the United Nations website was available in six languages. Europa, the official website of the European Union, could be read in 24 languages. Google supported 71 languages, while Wikipedia supported 287.

Did you note how Logically MISREPRESENTED the information to read as if it is “the most translated in the world”?

And of course their preaching work still dwarfs anything any other religion attempts. I’m not trying to show off here, but what does this mean?
Jesus prophesied (not the WT, though they try to understand what he was talking about) at Matt 24:14 “that the good news of the kingdom would be preached in all the earth before the end.”
Is that happening now?

According to the Pontifical Yearbook records reporting on the the 2,956 church jurisdictions in the world, the number of new Catholics jumped by 15 million from 2008 to 2011. The total number of living baptized Catholics on the globe in 2009 reached 1,181,000,000.

IN 2013, the Jehovah’s Witnesses claimed a grand total of 277,344 newly baptized ones.

According to the Pontifical reports, the Church baptizes on average 400,000 people each month.

I’m afraid I find that hard to explain away. (Maybe another religion will start doing an even greater teaching work soon? Maybe baptising a billion at birth is the preaching work Jesus was talking about? )

While the JWs may count only newly baptized ones as new members, the numbers above from the Pontifical report* are not limited to* “baptising a billion at birth,” as Logically puts it. These numbers include the millions of adults around the world who have joined the Church through the RCIA program, many of whom do not get baptized at all since they had already undergone a baptism previously from another denomination or individual that is seen by the Church as valid.

Actually another change in doctrine the JW’s made: in Russels day they thought the fact the Bible was available in most languages was the preaching work. Partly because they could not have imagined 8 million active in the work 100 years later.

Russell did not even believe the preaching work would continue much past 1914. In fact, like they taught in my day when I was a Jehovah’s Witness, they believed the world would soon end. Even when they connected the 1975 date/6000 years dates to Armageddon, they claimed that any difference between the dates they set “may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.”–The Watchtower, August 15, 1968, p 499.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Interestingly many of the same names are here who were fiercely refuting my posts two months ago when I tried to defend the JW’s! Is this their favourite subject? (They have even got some of their stored quotes from their “info to attack JWs” folder on their desktops.) Or do you use the myriad anti-JW’s websites to find them? (some people on those have got excellent collections for all sorts of subjects)

Actually I have an eidetic memory, which I used to a great degree when I was a Jehovah’s Witness. While a member I built a large library of Watchtower publications, hard copy and electronic when that became available. JWs go door to door wanting us to read and use their publications, and when we use them here you criticise us!

I am here discussing this subject because I’ve been asked to and invited to by members of this forum and many non-Catholics since, as a former Witness, I can offer an insight others do not have.

I look for threads discussing JW’s for obvious reasons. - because I love talking about what the Bible says, and to try to answer misconceptions about us or defend false or half-true accusations. (as we can see there are alot of accusations ready to fly at a moments notice!)

The Governing Body has instructed all Jehovah’s Witnesses:

It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. (2 Timothy 2:16, 17) Rather, imitate God’s response to apostates. Job said of Jehovah: “Before him no apostate will come in.” - Job 13:16.

• --The Watchtower, February 15, 2004, p. 28.*

True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas.

• --The Watchtower, November 1, 1993, p. 19*.

may I ask:
Why do some of you guys focus on the same threads? What is your real intention?

To defend the teachings of the Catholic Church, the practice of her people, and others.

This includes defending Jews, Muslims, other Christians, even agnostics and atheists and those who make claim to the plethora of convictions that Jehovah’s Witnesses regularly condemn in their preaching work, their literature, their meetings, and in their daily lives.

Witnesses spread many lies about humanity in general claiming we are not God’s people, that we do not worship the true God.

I do this to stand up for all these people, whether they subscribe to my religion or do not. I do not condemn people because they are not like me. I do not even condemn Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Because the Witnesses preach that we are on Satan’s side if we are not with you, and because this is a lie, this is why I do this.

 

[Logically]

This is not correct. Neither JW.org or the Governing Body ever stated this. Nor is there a site that is “the most translated website in the world.”…

Did you note how Logically MISREPRESENTED the information to read as if it is “the most translated in the world”?

.

Oh relax.

Here is the link. Sorry to disturb you.

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/publishing/jw-org-over-300-languages/#?insight

I see the Holy See website has 8. (one is Latin)

vatican.va/