What ISIS Really Wants

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I did not read the entire article because it is really long but I did read some of it. I found it to be quite interesting. I wanted to read the entire thing but when I realized how long the article was, I decided I would not read the entire thing.

Islamic State, ISIS, is very interesting to me. Of course it is a very evil organization but its theology and such interest me because I have always had an interest in Islamic theology. I know that most Muslims reject Islamic State but I wonder if they have theological reasons for doing so and if they do, what are those reasons. Also, Islamic State declares itself to be a caliphate and I wonder what their theological justification for doing so is and if that theological justification would be accepted by mainstream Islamic theology.
 
Holly3278 said:
I did not read the entire article because it is really long but I did read some of it. I found it to be quite interesting. I wanted to read the entire thing but when I realized how long the article was, I decided I would not read the entire thing.

Islamic State, ISIS, is very interesting to me. Of course it is a very evil organization but its theology and such interest me because I have always had an interest in Islamic theology. I know that most Muslims reject Islamic State but I wonder if they have theological reasons for doing so and if they do, what are those reasons. Also, Islamic State declares itself to be a caliphate and I wonder what their theological justification for doing so is and if that theological justification would be accepted by mainstream Islamic theology.
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You should find the time to read the article. It is worth your time.
 
article:
…The religion allows many interpretations, and Islamic State supporters are morally on the hook for the one they choose. And yet simply denouncing the Islamic State as un-Islamic can be counterproductive, especially if those who hear the message have read the holy texts and seen the endorsement of many of the caliphate’s practices written plainly within them.

Muslims can say that slavery is not legitimate now, and that crucifixion is wrong at this historical juncture. Many say precisely this. But they cannot condemn slavery or crucifixion outright without contradicting the Koran and the example of the Prophet. “The only principled ground that the Islamic State’s opponents could take is to say that certain core texts and traditional teachings of Islam are no longer valid,” Bernard Haykel says. That really would be an act of apostasy.
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Reform is going to be a real can of worms, whichever way you slice it.
But, that is the problem that Muslims are going to have to deal with, or the Islamists win by default.
 
meltzerboy said:
Well, I did not say that the members of ISIS were not Muslims, but I believe they are adherents to the tenets of Islam in the same way that Westboro Church Baptists are adherents to the tenets of Christianity. Neither group is representative of the ideals of their faith but instead distort those ideals to their own ends. Further, if Islam is varied, as you state, what about Christianity? Quakers, JW’s, Christian Scientists, Seventh-Day Adventists, and Mormons all consider themselves Christians, some even the only true Christians.

I stand by my statement that ISIS is masquerading as the true practitioners of Islam, but it is really power that they crave, as do all the political and military forces of evil throughout history, including Hitler and Stalin. Cloaking that craving for power under the guise of religion is merely a clever ruse on their part in order to recruit more alienated and ignorant followers.

And, for the record, I can categorically state that I am NOT Anglican. LOL
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What you mention about the Protestants is true. The point though is that Islam is like fundamentalist Protestantism. Every cleric is his own authority and interprets the texts his own way.

So even though Christianity isn’t unified as it should be, the Pope still speaks for 1.2 billion Christians. Plus other Christian groups have leaders too which speak for tens and/or hundreds of millions.

Muslims have no unifying (or partly unifying) voice; which btw is exactly what ISIS is trying to become.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
Maybe because the author of the article isn’t arguing that ISIS’s version of Islam is the “real” Islam; but instead is arguing that ISIS’s version of Islam is Islamic (this to counter the arguments put forth that it is un-Islamic).
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Causes repeatedly get hijacked. This is not really about religion. It’s about crime, fear, extortion, kidnapping, ransom, drugs, prostitution… the same old stuff…

But those in control are using the religion to get what they want… money… power…

It’s almost always really about economics.

The ‘haves’… the ‘have nots’…

The ‘have nots’ are usually pretty desperate… impressionable… malleable… and cheap…
 
graciew said:
One thing is faithfulness to the original and something very different is being able to.convince religious people to turn into beasts. These barbarians are beasts and they already were beastlike or very violent personalities in our 21 st century at the time of being recruited to crucify and behead people and children.Supposedly being “sane”…
This is channelling much individual violence in the name.of religion as well.
Ok. No evidence. Just thinking.
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There is a website by Abdullah who was Islamic born and converted to christianity educates the world in his words:
So please unite, stop being politically correct, help to stop the immigration flooding of Muslims to western countries and don’t be deceived by Islam. Because both types of Muslims, that is, Islamic terrorists who use jihad, bombing and explosions and so-called Muslim moderates who use deception, conversion techniques, and mass population explosions by birth and immigration to western countries, are both trying very hard to achieve the same goal, which is to fulfill Quran 8:39 that states there should be only one religion (Islam) for Allah in the whole world.
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The reason behind why Islamist’s kill others:

Islam Review
 
TheHolyTrinity said:
There is a website by Abdullah who was Islamic born and converted to christianity educates the world in his words:

The reason behind why Islamist’s kill others:

Islam Review
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I will read it ,thank you.
There are so many who live peacefully among us , that I hope they do find a peaceful leading voice that represents them.
 
The type of Islam espoused by ISIS is really no different than the one espoused by those who fought the Crusaders, or those who conquered and sacked Spain and tried to do the same to France, or even the “prophet” Muhammed himself.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
I stand by my statement that ISIS is masquerading as the true practitioners of Islam, but it is really power that they crave, as do all the political and military forces of evil throughout history, including Hitler and Stalin. Cloaking that craving for power under the guise of religion is merely a clever ruse on their part in order to recruit more alienated and ignorant followers.
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  1. Perhaps you are merely taking issue with their claim to be the most genuine Muslims but that would be a very unintersting claim unless you are claiming some special knowledge of who is or is not the most genuine.
Do you know more about Islam than Caliph Ibrahim?

I’m pretty sure there is more involved in being declared Caliph than declaring yourself Caliph.

Edit- I have no clue what I did to screw up the quoting thing.

One can reasonably suspect the leaders of ISIS of simply being seekers of power and perhaps wealth. But people don’t blow themselves up for the sake of power or wealth. Undoubtedly some of the “foot soldiers” of ISIS are simply sociopaths who like to kill and rape. But undoubtedly some, perhaps most, think of themselves as “warriors of Allah”.
As such, they cannot be described in any way other than Islamic.
 
Ridgerunner said:
One can reasonably suspect the leaders of ISIS of simply being seekers of power and perhaps wealth. But people don’t blow themselves up for the sake of power or wealth. Undoubtedly some of the “foot soldiers” of ISIS are simply sociopaths who like to kill and rape. But undoubtedly some, perhaps most, think of themselves as “warriors of Allah”.
As such, they cannot be described in any way other than Islamic.
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My comment is in blue and is addressing what is in bold. I believe you are responding to Meltzerboy.
 
They want the establishment of the “lost caliphate” which means, like most terror groups, they are impossible to negotiate with. The IRA had specific demands in regards to British withdrawal from the north of Ireland, or withdrawal of British troops, unfortunately IS are the most extreme and dangerous group on the planet right now.
 
migueltojose said:
Causes repeatedly get hijacked. This is not really about religion. It’s about crime, fear, extortion, kidnapping, ransom, drugs, prostitution… the same old stuff…

But those in control are using the religion to get what they want… money… power…

It’s almost always really about economics.

The ‘haves’… the ‘have nots’…

The ‘have nots’ are usually pretty desperate… impressionable… malleable… and cheap…
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It would be a mistake not to understand how much Islam plays a role in the lives of these Islamists. Everything that they do is justified through their texts and the example of their prophet.

They are amused by those outside of the faith, like Obama for instance, lecturing them on not what the real Islam is, and liken it to getting hygiene lessons from pigs rolilng in their own feces.

As long as the religion is that the Koran is the final prophecy perfectly holy to its jot and iota, and the example of the prophet is perfect to the tiniest of deeds, up to including the way he brushes his teeth, few have as informed an outlook as the Islamists.
This is what is important to them, and life defining.
 
phil19034 said:
What you mention about the Protestants is true. The point though is that Islam is like fundamentalist Protestantism. Every cleric is his own authority and interprets the texts his own way.

So even though Christianity isn’t unified as it should be, the Pope still speaks for 1.2 billion Christians. Plus other Christian groups have leaders too which speak for tens and/or hundreds of millions.

Muslims have no unifying (or partly unifying) voice; which btw is exactly what ISIS is trying to become.
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Jews have no unifying voice either. I don’t see this as an inherent problem of either religion.
 
migueltojose said:
Causes repeatedly get hijacked. This is not really about religion. It’s about crime, fear, extortion, kidnapping, ransom, drugs, prostitution… the same old stuff…

But those in control are using the religion to get what they want… money… power…

It’s almost always really about economics.

The ‘haves’… the ‘have nots’…

The ‘have nots’ are usually pretty desperate… impressionable… malleable… and cheap…
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And I think the author does a good job in placing ISIS outside the category of “hijacking religion to push a non-religious agenda” by highlighting the differences between AQ and ISIS in how they interact with the rest of the world. For all its claims otherwise AQ has a clear non-religious agenda with religion being used to justify the agenda and the actions it takes toward fulfilling it. The same really can’t be said about ISIS.
 
What ISIS Really Wants, according to the Obama administration is to be called Islamic terrorists. He, Holder and the others state they refuse to validate them. Obama wants to help the youth and teach them not to become terrorists here and worldwide. Obama wants to have a moral equivalence public debate while the m-e is looking horrible. Obama is creating terrorist states. 😊
 
meltzerboy said:
Jews have no unifying voice either. I don’t see this as an inherent problem of either religion.
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It is not a problem with Jews. There is no case of anyone ever arguing anybody else to death.

On the other hand, the largest number of victims of murdering Islamists have always been other Muslims, who do not believe the right way.

University professors get chucked out of windows and forced to divorce their Muslim wives due to their apostacy, whether their wives agree or not.

It may not be a big problem with Jews, since getting ones ears talked off is just figurative language after all.
It is a heckuva big problem for Muslims though, because of the issue of blood being spilled in large quantities due to these kinds of disagreements.
 
Darryl1958 said:
It is not a problem with Jews. There is no case of anyone ever arguing anybody else to death.

On the other hand, the largest number of victims of murdering Islamists have always been other Muslims, who do not believe the right way.
University professors get chucked out of windows and forced to divorce their Muslim wives due to their apostacy, whether their wives agree or not.

It may not be a big problem with Jews, since getting ones ears talked off is just figurative language after all.
It is a heckuva big problem for Muslims though, because of the issue of blood being spilled in large quantities due to these kinds of disagreements.
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This is a point that often gets overlooked. The most dangerous enemy of most Muslims is other Muslims.
 
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