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Big_Dummy
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what languagues did Moses and Elijah speak?
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Biedrik
Guest
Probably some very ancient form of Hebrew, particularly Moses. Although they might have been multi-lingual, which isn’t much of a stretch.
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gus
Guest
After living in Egypt for 200 years. I would suspect that the local language would have been the primary one. 10 generations is a long time to maintain your native tongue. However since Egypt was located so close to to the Semetic peoples who they traded with its not a stretch for people to keep some understanding of that language
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PAboy57
Guest
We see 2nd and 3rd generation Spanish folks in the US that speak very little of their native language. 10 generations would be difficult but with a little help from Above they could pick up their language again.
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ChadS
Guest
I think it’s quite reasonable to assume that Moses could both speak and write Egyptian since he grew up in the Pharoah’s household But I suppose it’s also reasonable to assume he spoke Hebrew also.
Perhaps what happened with Hebrew is it became a language only for worship and prayer, but in the day to day lives perhaps the Hebrews spoke Egyptian.
I really don’t know though I’m just speculating.
ChadS
Perhaps what happened with Hebrew is it became a language only for worship and prayer, but in the day to day lives perhaps the Hebrews spoke Egyptian.
I really don’t know though I’m just speculating.
ChadS
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ConstantineTG
Guest
I think this is not a good comparison. The culture in the US today is not representative of the middle east 4000 years ago. If you look at Africans today, most of them would speak a good number of languages because of the close proximity to other tribes/countries that speak other languages. Its quite possible that those who lived at the time of Moses and even Elijah that they more around between their land and interact with many other people, that they would speak a number of languages.
Also anticipate that the languages they use are very different than the ones in use today.
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roelblomsma
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Moses ofcourse spoke Egypcian as he grew up in the Farao’s Household. Afther that he fled into the dessert and lived with some beduins for a couple of years. There he should have picked up some sort of Arabian. When he came back to Egypt he communicated mainly with the Jewish people, thus he should have know or learned some Hebrew to.
I do think the Hebrews maintained their own language during their captivity in Egypt. I mean, many Mayen or Aztec tribes still speak their thong in combination with Spanish and they have been integrated under Spanish domination for 500 years now.
As for Elijah…I don’t know…Hebrew aslo. I think it is possible to state that Hewbrew does not differ that much from Arabian, considering that the Arabs also believe they are decendents of Abraham (Ibrahim). Maybe there was some kind of proto-Middle East Language that was spoken throughout the region at that time. Only the Egyptians would have spoken a distinguished language.
I do think the Hebrews maintained their own language during their captivity in Egypt. I mean, many Mayen or Aztec tribes still speak their thong in combination with Spanish and they have been integrated under Spanish domination for 500 years now.
As for Elijah…I don’t know…Hebrew aslo. I think it is possible to state that Hewbrew does not differ that much from Arabian, considering that the Arabs also believe they are decendents of Abraham (Ibrahim). Maybe there was some kind of proto-Middle East Language that was spoken throughout the region at that time. Only the Egyptians would have spoken a distinguished language.
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Big_Dummy
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So, what language did Jesus use with them?
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NotWorthy
Guest
Aramaic at times (Matthew 16, for instance). He probably addressed the crowds in Greek and Aramaic, depending on the number of gentiles in the audience, I presume.
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
If you are referring to the transfiguration on the mountain – where all three were together – it is noted that what was witnessed was a “vision” in one account; eg: Jesus tells them not to reveal the “vision” until after the crucifixion. A vision doesn’t have the same rules of dialog that people would normally have in the flesh. The language that was heard is not necessarily the language that was spoken – eg: the speaking in tongues is a similar situation. (See acts 2:9 and count the languages listed, there are clearly more languages and dialects than disciples speaking.)
At the transfiguration, the ones who witnessed it spoke at least Aramaic, and possibly Greek – so If the conversation was heard – I would expect that the conversation was heard in Aramaic. (by Peter James & John). As there is no recording of the actual words of the conversation – it might not have been heard at all.
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Big_Dummy
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what lanuage did paul hear either on the road and in heaven?
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
That one’s easier than the last question! God called “SAUL” – so one language he heard was clearly Hebrew on the Road. I don’t recall PAUL (Greek) telling us any words he heard in heaven, even the third heaven.
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NotWorthy
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I don’t think that “Paul” is the Greek transliteration of “Saul” in Hebrew. Of course, I’m wondering if I’m putting my foot in my mouth, as I remember that you have a pretty firm grasp of ancient Greek, eh?That one’s easier than the last question! God called “SAUL” – so one language he heard was clearly Hebrew on the Road. I don’t recall PAUL (Greek) telling us any words he heard in heaven, even the third heaven.
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Huiou_Theou
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I never claimed it was.
Saul is transliterated into Greek letter for letter. Where exactly the name change to Paul comes from, I am not sure. Some people had Hebrew names, but so the Greeks could pronounce a name – often a Greek “nick” name would be used instead. It seems to me, however, that Saul changed his name to Paul, as he is called Saul up and until a short period of time after being knocked off his horse. Perhaps it was to indicate that God had changed him, and had power over him – ? I’d have to look it up, or study it to be sure – but I’m too tired tonight; Possibly both of them are non-Greek names and trans-lettered (transliterated) into Greek … hmm… good question.
God bless you,
–Andrew.
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patrick457
Guest
To be more specific, it would have probably been the Galilean dialect of Western Aramaic, one of the many dialects that existed in the region (the Samaritans, the Judaeans, and folks east of the Jordan have their own peculiar lingoes as well). It is by the way now long extinct, as most dialects of the Western Aramaic family are now. The sole exception here is Western Neo-Aramaic, spoken nowadays in only three villages in the Anti-Lebanon mountains of western Syria.
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patrick457
Guest
Well, there is a Latin word paulus meaning ‘small’…I never claimed it was.
Saul is transliterated into Greek letter for letter. Where exactly the name change to Paul comes from, I am not sure. Some people had Hebrew names, but so the Greeks could pronounce a name – often a Greek “nick” name would be used instead. It seems to me, however, that Saul changed his name to Paul, as he is called Saul up and until a short period of time after being knocked off his horse. Perhaps it was to indicate that God had changed him, and had power over him – ? I’d have to look it up, or study it to be sure – but I’m too tired tonight; Possibly both of them are non-Greek names and trans-lettered (transliterated) into Greek … hmm… good question.
God bless you,
–Andrew.
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NotWorthy
Guest
I’m sorry, I thought you were indicating with your parenthesis (Hebrew) and (Greek) that the two names were simply different languages. My bad.I never claimed it was.
Saul is transliterated into Greek letter for letter. Where exactly the name change to Paul comes from, I am not sure. Some people had Hebrew names, but so the Greeks could pronounce a name – often a Greek “nick” name would be used instead. It seems to me, however, that Saul changed his name to Paul, as he is called Saul up and until a short period of time after being knocked off his horse. Perhaps it was to indicate that God had changed him, and had power over him – ? I’d have to look it up, or study it to be sure – but I’m too tired tonight; Possibly both of them are non-Greek names and trans-lettered (transliterated) into Greek … hmm… good question.
God bless you,
–Andrew.
Regarding the name change, you’ll notice that Saul is not called “Paul” until the Holy Spirit sets apart Saul and Barnabas to send them to Crete. In other words, He is not called “Paul” until he become and Apostle (is Sent).
In Acts 13:
2 While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
…4 So they, sent forth by the holy Spirit, went down to Seleucia and from there sailed to Cyprus
…9 But Saul, also known as Paul, filled with the holy Spirit, looked intently at him
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NotWorthy
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Wow!!! Thanks for that info. Sometimes I forget that the United States is NOT the only place that has dialects.To be more specific, it would have probably been the Galilean dialect of Western Aramaic, one of the many dialects that existed in the region (the Samaritans, the Judaeans, and folks east of the Jordan have their own peculiar lingoes as well). It is by the way now long extinct, as most dialects of the Western Aramaic family are now. The sole exception here is Western Neo-Aramaic, spoken nowadays in only three villages in the Anti-Lebanon mountains of western Syria.
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Eugene_Simms
Guest
I don’t know about that. Such seems to require that there would have been a base language in the first place. However, we should, as always, consider what scripture has to say on the matter.
Let’s start by asking what the language of Abraham could have been. While there is some disagreement of his specific birthplace, it was nearly sure that it would be in what we call southern Iraq. So he would have started with some dialect that was related to the language that eventially was dominant in the later Babylon. Past that, he was also a seasoned traveler who probably spoke the languages of the various places that he spent a fair amount of time in.
Eventually, he settled down to raise his family but his chosen location was right where travelers between the various ancient cultures all came together. It seems to me that people in that area in general (and by extension Abraham’s children) would be capable of handling a few languages with varying proficiency. Further, if there was a base language for this family, it would probably have been Ugaritic. Certainly, by the time that his grandson Jacob came into the picture, it would have been Ugaritic, possibly with loan words from the other languages.
Also, it would do well to note that the area is only a couple of hundred miles from the center of Egypt. So when Jacob brought his family in, they likely would not have too much trouble adapting to the local language.
That and the actual number of people who moved in from Cannan was not large to begin with. Jacob, sons, wives and kids as existed. Really, 50~60 people made up the base at this point.
So yah, a couple of centuries later, it makes sense that everyone spoke Egyptian. Possibly whatever else may have been needed to deal with the international crowd that would have been coming through the area as well.
As far as the language of Elijah, that would be harder to fix as we really don’t have biographical information to work with. What we do know is that that was well over a thousand years later, so it must have been a very different language.
Right, if that is the basic question, then it seems to me that all bets are off on this. Those events are miracles. Um, not much to work with for those scenes just on that basis alone.
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Huiou_Theou
Guest
It was sloppy of me none the less. You were right to ask.
I agree, that fits with my expectation of a name change. It doesn’t quite explain why “P” is used in place of S. There is no etymology (history of the name) given in those verses .
Looking back at the Greek of Acts 13,8. I would think that the name Elymas is transliterated from another language because the name is explained as meaning magician. I assume that name is Aramaic; Sergius Paulus — is clearly a Roman appointee over the Island Barnabas and Paul are on. Sergius is a very Etruscan(Italy/Rome) name.
Considering the name Paul is spelled the same as Segius Paulus of the island, I don’t think it too far fetched to expect Paul is a Roman name used identically in Greek.
At the time, Koine Greek was still the official language of the documents in Rome.
Doing some searching, there is a Greek word which is the same root in 2Macc 4:4. but no one translates it clearly. I, unfortunately, can’t search my larger databases where I am now.
The Greek word polis (city) – from which we get metropolis in English – has a similar Greek sounding word e-paul-es-in; that usually refers to a small city – eg: a villiage.
The formation of the other word has some similarity to verb usage – so I am not sure that Paul isn’t a Greek word with a meaning as well as Roman.
Saul is a very tribe of Benjamin name – as in King Saul – so St. Paul, a Pharisee who is from the tribe of Benjamin is just inheriting a traditional Hebrew name when he is known as “Saul”. Well, I guess I’ll just have to search out the full answer later when I have the tools handy – sorry I can’t be more decisive.
–Andrew.
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