What makes a God who allows eternal suffering worthy of my worship?

[Jaxboy]

Let me start by saying that I am not Catholic, nor am I a Christian. I do believe in God. I do not believe in hell. I ask this question honestly, seeking an answer from the Catholic perspective:

What makes a God who allows eternal suffering worthy of my worship?

 

[Exporter]

Jaxboy,

You say you DO NOT believe in HELL. So why would you ask such a question? You said you do not believe in HELL, then you asked a question about hell.

Try to fix this up.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

He doesn’t “allow” it

we choose it

ya places yer bets and ya takes yer chances

 

[Jaxboy]

Exporter:

Jaxboy,

You say you DO NOT believe in HELL. So why would you ask such a question? You said you do not believe in HELL, then you asked a question about hell.

Try to fix this up.

Fix:

My own answer to my question is “Nothing about a God who allows eternal suffering is worthy of anyone’s worship”. Therefore, the God I believe in does not allow eternal suffering. Therefore, there is no hell.

 

[Jaxboy]

Steve Andersen:

He doesn’t “allow” it

we choose it

ya places yer bets and ya takes yer chances

If God didn’t allow it, how could it exist?

 

[Benadam]

If a person comes to conclude that God exists it follows that God always was and is the source of all things including life and our own lives and the fulfillment of all things including our lives. This being isn’t subject to our judgement of worthiness or in anyway requires worship. ‘We’ need to worship God because in this being we find what sustains and fulfills our lives. It’s not a selfish desire that God wants our worship, it’s the desire that what has been created can fulfill the destiny it was created for.

 

[Darrel]

Jaxboy:

If God didn’t allow it, how could it exist?

He gave us free will so I can either walk with Christ or be Vlad the impaler it’s up to me. If you believe in him then ask him to show you the truth. Only he can cultivate your faith and show you that he is Lord. Suffering is allowed because you’re allowed like I am to inflict harm upon others. God is not a man with an ego, to compare him in human terms is unrealistic.

-D

 

[JohnPaul0]

Jaxboy:

My own answer to my question is “Nothing about a God who allows eternal suffering is worthy of anyone’s worship”. Therefore, the God I believe in does not allow eternal suffering. Therefore, there is no hell.

In life, there are consequences to our actions and decisions, right? That’s reality. If I committ a crime, I open myself to the possibility of jail. If there are consequences in this life, should we not expect them in the next?

Otherwise, God’s reality is totally different from that of the world He created. I respectfully suggest that you are creating your own God if you divorce Him from the reality of consequences.

 

[Exporter]

Jaxboy:

Fix:

My own answer to my question is “Nothing about a God who allows eternal suffering is worthy of anyone’s worship”. Therefore, the God I believe in does not allow eternal suffering. Therefore, there is no hell.

---

Oh, now you have cleared this up. You originally came on this site and ASKED A QUESTION.

But now you dont want to ASK a question …YOU WANT TO PREACH YOUR ARTIFICIAL THEOLOGY. I don’t think it will work.
You never intended to ask a question right from the beginning.

 

[Lorarose]

What makes a God who allows eternal suffering worthy of my worship?

I’m not sure what you mean by “worthy”
It almost seems like He needs to prove to you somehow that He is good enough.

What do you thing of His creation?
What do you think of the good things in your life, and the love you have experienced?
What do you think of your own existence?

God loves you more than you’ll ever know.
He sacrificed His only Son - for you.

But He did not create a bunch of robots who are required to love Him. What good would that have been?
When someone loves you - isn’t it part of the thrill that they have CHOSEN to love you?
Wouldn’t it seem sort of senseless if they were forced to love you?

And so it is with God.
He gave you free will. You can choose to worship Him or not.
If you choose to reject Him - He will not curse you by forcing you to spend eternity with Him. He will allow you to exist without His presence.
And that is what hell is. Hell is a place that is devoid of the presence of God. It is a place where souls can escape His presence because they DON’T WANT His presence!!

It would be more tortuous for these souls to be thrown into heaven and exist with a God they have rejected.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

Jaxboy,

The existence of hell comes from the teachings of our God, and his Son Jesus Christ, which you admittedly reject. If you want to understand why Catholics believe in a God and Hell, then you might want to start with comparing your source of authorty to ours. Our source is the Blessed Trinity. What is yours? You say you are not Christian but believe in God. What God? Can you tell us something about your God? Is he a personal God, or a God of deism?

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

Actually, I think what you might need to understand is the Catholic version of “hell”.

You refer to eternal suffering, so I assume you mean a fire and brimstone place of torture type thing - correct? (Oh How protestant!) This is not what we can confirm as absolute for all in either scripture or tradition.

All we know for certain is that those sent to “hell” are removed from God - this removal from the presence of God is in and of itself hell for us as His children. As our goal should be to be in His presence and to receive His grace - this would be utter devastation and despair enough - with or without fire and brimstone.

Now if you are referring to purgatory, that’s a seperate place/issue! Purgatory and hell are NOT the same! Purgatory is where those not good enough for heaven but not bad enough for hell go to get their soul prepared and “cleansed” to be worthy of Heaven.

EWTN just had a “latte conversation” about this. I’ll try to find the time to post the link tomorrow.

God is worthy of your worship for several reasons, but simpley and mostly because:

“I love Him because He first loved me.” He created you. Surely you, mere human that you are, are a creature of worth created by a master? Is that master creator not then worthy of something in return from you?

Now it’s late and I’ve got to go to bed so the baby will wake up for a feeding.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

You contend that you believe in a “god” but not one that allow eternal sufferring,so with this concept you stated in mind,how do you explain temporal sufferring?God Bless

 

[Jaxboy]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Let me take your response one step at a time

“If a person comes to conclude that God exists it follows that God always was and is the source of all things including life and our own lives and the fulfillment of all things including our lives.”

I agree with this, except, perhaps, the idea that God is the fulfillment of all things, because I’m not sure what that means.

“This being isn’t subject to our judgement of worthiness or in anyway requires worship. ‘We’ need to worship God because in this being we find what sustains and fulfills our lives.”

I agree that God does not require our worship. He is not subject to our judgement of worthiness, however, we are free to judge Him. Now, if we are to believe the God of the Bible is the true God, then He is capable of many things both merciful and wrathful. One of these is allowing hell to exist. I do not believe myself heartless enough to allow someone to suffer eternal torment. Am I, therefore, more merciful than God? If so, I choose not to worship that God.

“It’s not a selfish desire that God wants our worship, it’s the desire that what has been created can fulfill the destiny it was created for.”

I believe that what you are saying here is that God did not put us here to worship Him, but to fulfill our destiny. That’s a whole other discussion

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Jaybox,Hello God who is all merciful and equally just did not wish for us to suffer in any way.This is the first thing.He created us with free will,to love Him or not to love Him.Free will is a sticky subject for some,because it allows us to not love Him or obey Him.That begs the question do you choose to love your husband or wife out of you free will or does your husband or wife hold a gun to your head?Some people choose against God who is love they do not want to be with Him they want to suffer as strange as that sounds it is true.Our free cooperation with satan brought hell into existance,as well as death and sufferring.God and His love and mercy became Man to allow those who wanted the good,who wanted to be with God who is love,and took upon Himself the sins of the world,He voluntarily was humiliated,tortured,and crucified so the gates of Heaven would be open to all,who would freely choose him.He is definately worthy,it is we who are not worthy.God Bless

 

[Darrel]

Am I, therefore, more merciful than God?

Your logic seems to continue to look at God as if he is a man in your comparison. God does not sit in heaven going Muahahahahaha I’m God I created hell because I can!!!. That is something the male ego in all its ignorance could manufacture.

God loves all of his children and yes all of them are accountable as they should be. There can only be one truth and that truth can never be created out of ones own personal preference because … Oh I think this feels a little more nice. Seek and ye shall find… Knock and it shall be opened unto you… it’s not … Make it up as you go.

-D

 

[Lorarose]

I personally believe God is heartbroken when the souls he loves and created choose hell over Him.

I don’t believe God sends souls to hell.

I believe they send themselves to hell.
I believe they prefer hell over accepting God.

 

[Jimmy_B]

itsjustdave1988:

Jaxboy,

The existence of hell comes from the teachings of our God, and his Son Jesus Christ, which you admittedly reject. If you want to understand why Catholics believe in a God and Hell, then you might want to start with comparing your source of authorty to ours. Our source is the Blessed Trinity. What is yours? You say you are not Christian but believe in God. What God? Can you tell us something about your God? Is he a personal God, or a God of deism?

I would also add, what religion are you, if any?

 

[Benadam]

“If a person comes to conclude that God exists it follows that God always was and is the source of all things including life and our own lives and the fulfillment of all things including our lives.”

I agree with this, except, perhaps, the idea that God is the fulfillment of all things, because I’m not sure what that means.

what that means is if you acknowledge another being as your creator then your purpose for existing is whatever that being’s reason was for creating you. That reason is your purpose to fulfill.

"This being isn’t subject to our judgement of worthiness or in anyway requires worship. ‘We’ need to worship God because in this being we find what sustains and fulfills our lives."

I agree that God does not require our worship. He is not subject to our judgement of worthiness, however, we are free to judge Him. Now, if we are to believe the God of the Bible is the true God, then He is capable of many things both merciful and wrathful. One of these is allowing hell to exist. I do not believe myself heartless enough to allow someone to suffer eternal torment. Am I, therefore, more merciful than God? If so, I choose not to worship that God.

Love requires freedom, and that freedom includes to choose eternal seperation from life and fulfillment rather than make a choice that another has also made for us. Don’t be mistaken, people in hell wouldn’t change their mind about what they choose. Would you as God all powerfull, source of love put yourself in the ultimately vulnerable state of a fetus in a womans womb? No longer existing as all powerfull but powerless and in need of love. I think if you consider that this all powerfull God is also good you’ll find that God couldn’t stoop any lower to save us from ourselves. In fact what God did was worship us. God bowed down, touched His forehehad to the ground and worshipped man with the sacrifice of His own life.

“It’s not a selfish desire that God wants our worship, it’s the desire that what has been created can fulfill the destiny it was created for.”

I believe that what you are saying here is that God did not put us here to worship Him, but to fulfill our destiny. That’s a whole other discussion

Not really, because your question hinges on a reason to worship God. Suffering is not caused by sin but intensified by it.

 

[Genesis315]

I like to think of Heaven and Hell this way:

God is perfect good and perfect love. In order to love, we need freewill. Therefore He gives us freewill. With this freewill, we can choose to unite ourselves with Him or to separate from Him. If we choose to unite ourselves with Him, we spend eternity with Him. We spend an eternity united to perfect good and perfect love. Just attempt to imagine how happy you would be and how good it would feel to be united to total, complete, and eternal good and love. You would be perfectly and infinitely happy–Heaven.

Now imagine yourself totally separated from God. You are totally, completely, and eternally separated form all good and all love. Just attempt to imagine how horrible this would be. You would be infinitely unhappy–Hell.