Thank you for taking the time to lay things out so well
I understand and agree with a lot of what you are saying. I think the different understanding we have lies in where works fit in the picture. The difference is, do our works justify us (make us right with God) or not. My understanding of scripture is that they cannot justify us in any way because in the flesh our works are filthy.
Then what is your response to James 2:14-26, especially verse 24 which say’s:
*You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. *
Your entire understanding of scripture is seen through the filter of Martin Luther’s theology. Do you know what Martin Luther’s response to James was? His response was,
*“This is not inspired, its an epistle full of straws…I mean it has some good things in it but its not inspired so it has no place in my bible” *
So are you going to go by the bible ONLY or Luther ONLY? Which is it?
The only works that are counted righteous are those done in the spirit and if we are not first justified by grace we cannot be born again in the spirit, thus our works are of the flesh.
Well this is a game of semantics. Either you are in the spirit or not.
It seems utterly futile to me to continue to try to earn salvation when it’s already been impuned to those who believe, through the work of Jesus Christ (the Savior).
Salvation is rewarded and not earned. We are not impuned with salvation we are (name removed by moderator)uned with grace, and faithfulness to the grace we are given which requires works for justification is what we will be judged by. Please note that every single scripture verse dealing with the judgment the bible says we will be judged by our works and not our faith. If you don’t have works you are not justified and if you are not justified you are not saved.
If we believe that we have to keep working out our salvation and sin is constantly in the way until the moment we are in heaven,
Then you reject Saint Paul epistle to the Philippians which tells us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Philip 2:12). Sin is constantly knocking on our door but we do not have to open the door. The bible say’s that if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with God and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:1-7). The bible also say’s that if we do fall to sin from temptation that if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). So God has given us all the grace we need to live a righteous life and to continue to do the good works God has called us to do. And at the end of our lives we will be rewarded for what we have done with God’s grace. That is why we are not truly saved until the end of our earthly life. That is Bible ONLY!
I don’t see how anyone would even make it to heaven (actually I think we go to paradise and heaven after the judgement but let’s not go there). Naturally, even after we are born again, saved, redeemed from the curse or which ever one chooses to call it, we are still subject to sinning and that is why Jesus came, to do away with the punishment for the sin, not to immediately transform us into perfect beings.
The transformation is gradual and not complete until we become perfected between mortality and imortality, this nis the concept of purgatory, a purging. Jesus did not lay down his life to excuse our behavior because we cannot help ourselves. Jesus laid down his life to give us the grace so we can help ourselves. Therefore, we must deny ourselves, take up our crosses and follow Christ or we are not worthy of Christ. That’s Bible ONLY!
The difference I see in the two theologies is:
A. You are justified by Jesus’ work on the cross and sactification is a process of walking in that salvation (new born spirit man) and working it out by perservering in your new faith and growing in that faith by growing stronger in the spirit man with good works being the fruit of that.
or
B. You are justified of your sin that you were born with only. You are born again but only until you sin again. Then you must start over and be justified again, every time you sin so you must continue in your own efforts so that you do not sin, in hopes that when you die, you will be sinless so that you may enter Heaven.
The answer is C] None of the above.
Jesus death established a new covenant between man and God. When we first come to God we have nothing to offer him but our sorrow. Baptism is the sacrament which cleanses us from all actual and original sin we have committed before baptism and at this point we are “born again of water and the spirit.” We are transformed gradually as we become united to the cross of Christ by virtue of the sacrament of the altar, the eucharist. The eucharist gives us the grace to be transformed (John 6:40-59), it moves us to the scriptures and to good works of service to others (Matt 25:14-46). The eucharist gives us the life of Christ, it enables us to walk as Jesus walked. When we sin however, we have the sacrament of reconcilliation, we are to confess our sins and reject them, and when we do we are restored to grace and pick up where we left off. So in summary the death and resurrection of Christ established a new and better covenant which empowers us to be transformed from sinners to saints.
Peace,
David
