Jesus said the opposite of this consistently through every single one of His Gospels. He said it directly and in parables.
Now David, TSK, TSK!
“Are saints saved?”!!! Is a fat hog heavy!!!
Quickcat your post here is non sensical because it is not clear to me what your argument is. From what I can gather you are using scripture out of context. If Jesus mission was only to save the Jews then his death on the cross does not apply to Gentiles. So your point here is moot. Jesus was making a reference to the Mosaic covenant in light of the New Covenant he was about to mediate. Up until Christ God had only made a covenant with Israel but the new covenant was for all of humanity. The Gentiles would be grafted into the children of Abraham. The parable of the sheep and the goats is a reference to the judgment. The sheep and the goats all knew Christ but only the ones who did the works were the ones who were saved. Hence, we are not justified by faith alone but by works (James 2:24). That’s bible ONLY
What we know is, Jesus sought out gentiles and healed them and recognized a pagan as having greater faith than He had seen in Israel. We want to be careful not to misinterpret an English word in a single verse in an ancient Greek document as telling us Jesus Christ was sent exclusively for one group instead of for the whole world.
To me, it seems like you are giving license to sin. Afterall, if there is no eternal consequence to sin, then it’s not really a big deal. If life gets too tough you could always just kill yourself and reap your Heavenly rewards, right?
Good ones or bad ones Leadee? It seems to me that many of the sinners in this life have it very easy by their sins.
This is hard to reconcile with much of the Scripture we have been examining. It seems to me that you start with this narrow construct and then interpret much of the NT through it to rationalize your beliefs.
But this contradicts your claim above that “it no longer has eternal consequences”! You started with “no eternal consequence” and have now ended with an eternal consequence - our inheritance is an eternal reality, Leadee. If our inheritance is affected, then our eternity is affected.
You are talking about our initial salvation, Leadee. Persevering in the state of grace(ongoing slavation), dying in that state and actually inheriting the KofG/going to Heaven (final salvation) is not by faith alone. In addition to faith, these other aspects of salvation involve things like good works and avoiding serious sin. Why else do you think Paul mentions them? So that we can have an easier life here on earth?! Thats downright silly…If you think I am mistaken on this, please provide some Scripture to indicate that going to Heaven or inheriting the KofG is by faith alone! I’ll give you a heads up: there isn’t any!
It is an act of faith Leadee, just like doing good works. Obedience is another entirely appropriate term, but they all represent acts of faith. You are mistaken in believing that there is a thing called faith that is somehow not united to our actions. Faith, like the tree, is known by its fruit. Fruit can witness to faith, lack of fruit can witness to lack of faith.
Hi Julia: Our Lord’s earthly ministry was to one people - Israel. He says so in Mt. 15:24. When He sent the 12 out to preach the gospel of the kingdom, He sent them ONLY to the “lost sheep of the house of Israel” Mt. 10:6. He cautioned them “not to go to the Gentiles” Mt. 10:5.
It is curious that Jesus did not say here, “Salvation is FOR the Jews”.
I’m not saying that what we do doesn’t have eternal consequences. We will be judged on our works as believers. However, we will not be judged on our sins because Jesus took care of that penalty on th cross.
Pastor David: “Out of context?” Not at all! IN CONTEXT! Our Lord Jesus Christ, in His first advent, tells us clearly that He was "Sent ONLY to the LOST SHEEP of I-S-R-A-E-L [Mt. 15:24]. He sent the 12 “ONLY to the LOST SHEEP of ISRAEL” Mt. 10:5,6. We now know, through Paul’s epistles, that our Lord Jesus Christ “Gave Himself a ransom for ALL, TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME!” At the time of our Lord’s earthly ministry the Gentiles were “…Without Christ, being aliens from the Commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and WITHOUT GOD in the world.” But now - God raises up Saul of Tarsus, renames him Paul, and makes him the apostle to the Gentiles [Rom. 11:13]. Now that is the Bible “rightly divided” 2 Tim. 2:15.
Can you give an example of what this looks like, Leadee?
Wrong. The term “saint” is not defined in the bible and so we don’t “know” what was meant by it. In addition, there is the general term “saint” and the more specific term “Saint”, which have different meanings. Furthermore, you add considerable confusion using the somewhat ambiguous term “saved”.
Jesus clearly defines who the sheep and goats are: those who did good works those who failed to do good works. There may be an element of truth to what you say, however, but not in the nationalistic sense you mean it. In the NT a descendant of Abraham, ie a Jew, is anyone who shares in Abraham’s faith (it is not by circumcision) and such a person has entered into the New Covenant through faith in Christ. Those who do the good works through faith in Christ are His sheep and (in a lesser sense) are true Jews by virtue of that fact.
I suppose you are familiar with the rest of Mt 15 where Jesus heeds the womans request based upon her “great faith”? That fact obviates whatever implication you intended to make regarding the exclusivity of his mission. Understand that her “great faith” is what unites her to Abraham and Israel (Jews) under the New Covenant according to what I explained above, and you will come to see that Christ is not attempting to be exclusive, but is actually revealing what the “House of Israel” is truly built upon: faith in Him.
Ok Leadee, I think this above underlined part highlights the possible error in your thinking.
I have started a new thread on this, as it is important that you and the others who may be lurking understand: Catholics cannot divorce and re-marry.
Jesus’ entire ministry was to as many people and types of people as He could reach and He went purposefully to the Gentiles. The entire book of Mark says so, among others.
That’s correct. When sending them out by themselves as"Apostles in training" He circumscribed their actions. He, Himself, had already shown them, by purposely seeking out Gentiles, that His message and salvation were for all people. He did not wish the Apostles to go to the Decapolis or to Perea as He had. He wished to keep them close.
I think it would be more helpful to you, if you got a map of the Holy land at the time of the Incarnation and traced Jesus’ movements and understood what lands He went to and who lived there. If they allowed me to post an image here I would to help you understand how obvious your error is.