E
Eruvande
Guest
It’s the question they asked Peter on Pentecost and it still bothers me today, especially now I’m looking seriously at Catholicism. Can I have assurance of salvation or do I have to live with uncertainty?
- Status
J
jonathan_hili
Guest
You can have a moral assurance of salvation, yes. If you have faith in God, hope in God, love in God, you will be saved.
D
dshix
Guest
Faith, hope, and love in God do not give moral assurance of salvation. Joining the structured religion which Jesus founded while He was on earth gives moral assurance of salvation.
J
jonathan_hili
Guest
I know that, but that’s not what he’s asking. He’s asking if (if I’m not mistaken), as a Catholic, he could have such assurance. I assumed, when you join the Church, you’re Catholic!
D
dshix
Guest
Ah, I agree, but the poster has said he is not Catholic YET.I know that, but that’s not what he’s asking. He’s asking if (if I’m not mistaken), as a Catholic, he could have such assurance. I assumed, when you join the Church, you’re Catholic!
M
mountee
Guest
As a Catholic we have assurance of an eternal life by following the Truths of our faith. If you were to study the faith and choose to become Catholic you would see over and over again the opportunities to be assured of eternal life as a practicing Catholic. I hope and pray you will take those steps:thumbsup:
M
MalaysianDan
Guest
Be friends with God from now on until you breathe your last. Its easier said than done, trust me. >.<
D
Della
Guest
The passage you are referring to in the RSV:
Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
[38] And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
[39] For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him."
[40] And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
[41] So** those who received his word were baptized**, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
[42] And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
It’s all laid out there. Peter never says to simply give assent to the Gospel nor to “accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior”. He says what I highlighted and they did what I highlighted. We are saved by cooperating with what God expects us to do–by utilizing the grace he has given us. It’s a life long journey to union with God not a one time experience. We must be holy and we must do good and both through the grace of God which is his free gift to us in the Sacraments Christ established in his Church, as we see in the passage cited.
E
Eruvande
Guest
Thank you all for your replies (I’m a she btw, not a he). Looking at the passage in context is quite powerful, thank you Della. I’m always told by my protestant friends that Catholics don’t have assurance they just have an endless round of works, but I’m also aware that we have to live out our faith, that it’s not just a mental thing. So much to think about!
P
paul_c
Guest
To be saved, you need to be baptized into the church,which puts you in the state of grace. To enter heaven, you must die in the state of grace so the challenge is to stay in the state of grace. You do that by doing God’s will, which is to love God and your neighbor as yourself. Note, Jesus discusses the last judgement in Matthew 25: 31-46. What differentiates those that enter heaven (the sheep) and those that are condemned to hell (the goats) are their love (or lack of love) for the least of their neighbors. And of course, as a Catholic, if you sin and fall from grace, you can be reconciled to God through the sacrament of reconciliation (sacramental confession). So you see, if you choose to love, you can be assured of heaven. In CAtholic teaching, going to heaven is a choice. its surprising how few actually chose to love others, instead serving only themselves.
S
snarflemike
Guest
Did this former evangelical pastor have assurance of salvation? You KNOW he thought he did, at one time.
amazon.com/Losing-Faith-From-Preacher-Atheist/dp/187773313X
If he could fall away so fully, can you be assured you could not?
S
SaintFrancis333
Guest
Not quite. While those are essential components you forget about the part where we must struggle every day and work out our salvation in fear and trembling. We are not saved by faith alone.
R
R_C
Guest
Such is the ordinary journey of the Christian: “A man of sorrows accustomed to sufferings”. Such was the journey of the Lord: thirty years spent, first subject to his parents, then working at a humble carpenter’s workshop in a somewhat despised city. A journey that ended in a most sorrowful Way up a rocky hill, crowned with thorns, striped with the marks of the flagellum, nailed to a cursed wood reserved for the worst criminals, despised and abandoned by all but His mother.
What assurance can there be, other than that of Tradition, which tells us that this is how the Church has always been, and that we are entrusted with the plenitude of the Sacraments through which Christ the Head makes Himself present and visible through His ordained ministers? We hold on to what was passed onto us, add nothing to it, remove nothing from it. What we do today is what they did yesterday.
Communities separated from the Catholic Church exist as far as we know since 90 AD (as reported by a remark from the third bishop of Rome, Clement), and even before (as the letters of the Apostles in Sacred Scriptures witness, admonishing us to beware of those who cause divisions and follow something other than the tradition handed down to them).
Church Father Tertullian would write somewhere between 100 and 200 AD about these communities:
So would speak s. Cyprian of Carthage in the III Century:
Church Father Jerome, the greatest biblical scholar of his age, translator of the Sacred Scripture into Latin (the definitive and officially promulgated Latin version of the Bible in the Church until this very day), would write in the IV Century:
And the great s. Ambrose of Milan, the bishop who greatly influenced and eventually baptized s. Augustine, would remark around the same time about a separated community:
Ah, the Sacrament of Confession, this blessed life-saving Sacrament, of whom the disciple of the Apostle John, the illustrious s. Ignatius of Antioch, described as follows:
And we may quote two of the Three Holy Hierarchs: Basil the Great and John Chrysostom:
What must we do to be saved? Love. Love Christ. Love our neighbor. Love the Church. As the disciple of John, s. Ignatius, once wrote: “See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God.”. With such simplicity, by the sanctification of the Eucharist and the forgiveness of Confession, our cross becomes a burden that is light and our journey in the valley of tears and of the shades of death becomes a peaceful one, even amidst tribulation.
E
Eruvande
Guest
I have very little assurance as a protestant, but I am terrified of losing my salvation. It seriously consumes me with worry. I am frightened of getting it wrong and being in the wrong church, believing the wrong things and having Christ say ‘I never knew you’.
S
snowflakeinlove
Guest
Just because Catholics don’t believe in once saved always saved / assurance of salvation doesn’t mean that we’re constantly despairing and worrying about going to hell or being abandoned by God. God, not an “endless round of works or our holiness” establishes security in a relationship between us and God, but the reason we don’t agree with “assurance of salvation” is that we can always choose to turn our back on God and leave him, through sin. So the point is, God doesn’t abandon us, but we can abandon him
R
Robyn_p
Guest
You will have the assurance of the Sacraments. When you hear the priest in confession say the words of absolution, you’re sins are forgiven!! They are history. I know whenever I hear those words, personally I feel a great weight lifted. There’s something in human nature that needs that closure that only those words can give, which is why Jesus established this sacrament. And all the others are similarly freeing.
You also get the assurance of truth. Not mere opinions of scripture, but the real deal. That right there is why I’m Catholic, no more guessing, only living!
P.S.
Catholics don’t live in constant fear of hell because they don’t believe in eternal security or OSAS by the way. I realize you didn’t say that, I just know there are some people out there who are under that impression, so I just wanted to clear that up just in case
) Yes, we believe someone can still turn their back on God even after accepting Him, but we also believe that if someone has sanctifying grace in their souls, they will go to heaven. And how do we receive sanctifying grace? Through the sacraments! And no matter how long or how far someone falls, they can always come back to Confession.
Catholics just want to make sure not to forget that faith is a gift, and if we don’t nourish it or strengthen it, we can lose it. Which is why Paul said to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12) Not a servile fear of “am I saved, am I saved, am I really saved?” But more of a, “if I start to take this for granted, I can lose it.” Or as St. Paul also put it,
You also get the assurance of truth. Not mere opinions of scripture, but the real deal. That right there is why I’m Catholic, no more guessing, only living!
P.S.
Catholics don’t live in constant fear of hell because they don’t believe in eternal security or OSAS by the way. I realize you didn’t say that, I just know there are some people out there who are under that impression, so I just wanted to clear that up just in case
) Yes, we believe someone can still turn their back on God even after accepting Him, but we also believe that if someone has sanctifying grace in their souls, they will go to heaven. And how do we receive sanctifying grace? Through the sacraments! And no matter how long or how far someone falls, they can always come back to Confession. Catholics just want to make sure not to forget that faith is a gift, and if we don’t nourish it or strengthen it, we can lose it. Which is why Paul said to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. (Phil 2:12) Not a servile fear of “am I saved, am I saved, am I really saved?” But more of a, “if I start to take this for granted, I can lose it.” Or as St. Paul also put it,
That verse right there actually sums up the Catholic teaching rather nicely. We just can’t take our salvation for granted.
W
WD615
Guest
I assume they mean something similar to “once saved, always saved.”
Not only does that teaching rely on sola fide (misguided and unbiblical and a whole other problem), but it is unscriptural itself. Such Protestants typically ignore the Bible when it talks about falling out of grace.
Ultimately, you need to have faith in Jesus Christ and love for Him. And let His Church guide you and give you direction for the rest. Protestants will usually say Scripture should be your guide to salvation, but it is the Church that is the foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
As a convert from Protestantism, I encourage you to keep on searching out Catholicism. I’ve known too many Protestants who worry themselves sick about whether they’re “really saved” or whether they “really meant” the Jesus prayer. It’s much better knowing you don’t have to rely on that, but only on the grace of God and to experience that grace through the sacraments.
I’ll be praying for you!
Not only does that teaching rely on sola fide (misguided and unbiblical and a whole other problem), but it is unscriptural itself. Such Protestants typically ignore the Bible when it talks about falling out of grace.
Ultimately, you need to have faith in Jesus Christ and love for Him. And let His Church guide you and give you direction for the rest. Protestants will usually say Scripture should be your guide to salvation, but it is the Church that is the foundation of truth (1 Timothy 3:15).
As a convert from Protestantism, I encourage you to keep on searching out Catholicism. I’ve known too many Protestants who worry themselves sick about whether they’re “really saved” or whether they “really meant” the Jesus prayer. It’s much better knowing you don’t have to rely on that, but only on the grace of God and to experience that grace through the sacraments.
I’ll be praying for you!
W
WD615
Guest
Robyn p,
Amen on Confession. It is a much greater assurance than OSAS.
And on the truth, amen again. It is much easier to rely on the authority that God established just as the Scriptures described than to wonder if you’ve got the right interpretation.
The Scriptures say, “If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16, 17 ESV)” Have you ever worried that your sin may be too great to just pray about? The Scriptures say there are such sins. It’s a much greater assurance with confession. No worries there, you’re sins are forgiven because of the power that God gave to the Apostles concerning forgiveness of sins (John 20:23)
Amen on Confession. It is a much greater assurance than OSAS.
And on the truth, amen again. It is much easier to rely on the authority that God established just as the Scriptures described than to wonder if you’ve got the right interpretation.
The Scriptures say, “If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death. (1 John 5:16, 17 ESV)” Have you ever worried that your sin may be too great to just pray about? The Scriptures say there are such sins. It’s a much greater assurance with confession. No worries there, you’re sins are forgiven because of the power that God gave to the Apostles concerning forgiveness of sins (John 20:23)
P
paul_c
Guest
That could well be your conscience calling out to you. Follow where the spirit leads you (and note that it has led you here)
R
R_C
Guest
I also had that same fear. Many who convert to Christianity in the modern age have it, I guess, given the thousands upon thousands of (seemingly equal?) denominations. Out of a million reasons, one of the ones that keep me safe within the bounds of the Catholic Church is that it was not founded a couple hundred years ago by taking Catholic doctrine and changing it. We have on our side the testimony of the saints and the words of the Church Fathers, along with the wholeness of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Perhaps we are all wrong and the scattered handful are right, but I’d personally prefer to be in the most ancient flock, than to have to explain the reasons why I preferred to follow denomination #13124 and why I thought that they were the right church believing the right things).
- Status