What Price is Peace?

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Michael16

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I face a dilemma

When my family bring up their beliefs, I either shut up or I tell them the truth. My mother feels that I constantly tell her that her religion is wrong and she calls me a zealot. Her position is that no one religion is perfect.

We have had some difficulties lately.

She brought up her belief that one of the Apostles is black. I knee jerked: Show me in Scripture. She blew up at me and started cussing. “ Don’t tell me to show me in the Bible! I don’t care! “ and stormed off. Later that afternoon, my sister started up a conversation on an issue, I forgot what the issue was; and she told me: “ And I don’t want to hear the Catholic Church’s…” and I knee jerked: “ As a Catholic, you what do you expect me to do? Go by what Luther says? “

That got her a quiet sort of mad. Mom apologized for cussing earlier and my sister quietly told her: “ You shouldn’t be sorry. “ I let it go, as I don’t need to go in and conquer her in an argument.

Then today, my Mom and I had a talk. She basically told me her feelings that I’m intolerant, a zealot and that I go around saying that every other religion is wrong except for the Church.

I tried to ponder a little bit, to figure out how to be diplomatic; and she jumped in and said: “ There you go, you’re about to say it again. “ I said no, you don’t know what I’m about to say, don’t assume and I don’t assume what you’re going to say before you say it. I let you say it first.

Well, I then said that each religion has some truth to it and then I went into the Church’s position on the Protestant communities and their being only half the Gospel and a lot of errors, only two valid Sacraments, explained Luther’s teaching of By grace alone, by faith alone, by Christ alone and that Luther himself said that faith alone was the rock upon which stood all his doctrine’s way of understanding godliness.

And then I proceeded to tear down faith alone using only Scripture; explaining that Scripture itself teaches faith and works. My mother explained to me that my youngest son, who wants to be Catholic; is afraid of going to hell if he misses church on Sundays and my mother was upset about that.

Then, my mother goes off into the kitchen to make dinner. She complained to me that Catholics are the reason why there’s so many denominations in the world. I knee jerked again, explaining to her the practical effects of Sola Scriptura that eliminates authority to arbitrate arguments over interpretation; saying to her: “ And you can thank Martin Luther for that! “

Then my sister pulls out her phone and shows me a picture of the Last Supper that shows a tanned Apostle. I stated that he ain’t black. My mother goes on to say: “ He’s a light skinned black. “

After that, my mother goes on to blow up and yell: “ If you keep telling me everything I believe is wrong, then I’m going to have a Holy war with you! “

I just don’t know what to do. I want to be nice and not be that way, but at the same time; how do I hold my ground on the truth?

I don’t know. Please help me.

Rereading this post, I can see where I’m wrong. I constantly try to correct people. I need to stop that.
 
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I think you need to make an agreement with your family that all of you will stop trying to tear down each other’s beliefs. Go by the old saying “if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all”.

I think when your mother told you her feelings, you should have responded in kind and not tried to correct her or challenge her beliefs. Something like “I’m sorry we’ve been arguing so much. I don’t like it either. I find it difficult to stay quiet when you say things that go against my beliefs, but I can see how that makes you feel defensive. I’m sorry”. And leave it at that. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

There’s no point arguing all the time, there really isn’t. So if there’s nothing nice you can say, don’t say anything. If you think your family are deliberately trying to get to you, ask them very nicely that they stay respectful of your beliefs and tell them you will try your best to do the same. Let them know that you feel things have gone too far in the past, on both sides, but you’re willing to stop the arguments.
 
🤔 I see your point. One thing I was thinking on the way home from work was to do something along those lines.

I don’t think my family’s trying to get to me; it’s just… I guess it’s my pride getting in the way. I feel that by being quiet and going along to get along; I’m compromising my beliefs.
 
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Why wouldn’t an apostle be black? In that part of the world it would not be surprising, and Jesus would be totally cool with that.
 
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I guess the basic problem I have is that I’ve been spending way too much time on the Sola Caritas thread, arguing with the Protestant posters that I’m trained to go into “ combat mode “ in apologetics with Protestants.

Don’t get me wrong: I’m not really intolerant of other religions; I try to maintain an academic attitude. Kind of like an anthropologist studying another culture.

Like my niece: Her best friend is Jewish. I’m fascinated with Judaism and I’m supportive of her having a Jewish friend. I even told her I’d like to visit her friend’s synagogue with her sometime.

But, when it comes to Protestantism; it’s hard for me to stay academic and charitable. I try.
Just when it comes to Luther: I get so mad.
 
I don’t think it would be bad if one of the Apostles was black. I just want to see the evidence for it.
 
If I read this correctly, your mother is Protestant. Right?

Okay. Thankfully, our immediate family (except for my brother) converted to Catholicism after I made that final decision. Actually, we like the Church and we love being Catholic. But we try to avoid our paternal family because they are not Catholic, while our maternal family is Catholic.

What I see here is that your mother is trying to disapprove the Church and perhaps convince your son to not go to church. Back then, it was normal to have darker-skinned people. She must be aware that our Lord made our faith available to everyone, even to the Gentiles.

However, here is a comment made by Pope Francis when the Coptic Christians were martyred for their faith. He said to others, “It doesn’t matter what kind of Christians they were, they were Christians.” It’s often hard to find a common agreement between Protestantism and Catholicism, but in this case your mother really needs to accept your faith. She’s only causing divisions right now. I would say, respect her beliefs and talk to her about our Holy Church as well. It may help to allow her to understand you.
 
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My mother’s a born and raised Lutheran and her father was a deacon in their church.

As for the Holy Father’s comment: I agree with him. When my niece was discerning other religions, I of course, wanted to her to go Catholic. But, when she decided to stay Lutheran; I was relieved. At least Protestants are Christians.
 
My mom tries, but every time I explain our Faith, she just gives me this I think you’re crazy look and doesn’t want to know more.
 
Michael16 said:
I feel that by being quiet and going along to get along; I’m compromising my beliefs.
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In what way do you compromise your beliefs if you don’t talk about them? Your family knows you don’t agree with them. Asking them for a truce or saying you no longer want to discuss religion (theirs and yours) with them isn’t compromising your beliefs.
Michael16 said:
I guess the basic problem I have is that I’ve been spending way too much time on the Sola Caritas thread, arguing with the Protestant posters that I’m trained to go into “ combat mode “ in apologetics with Protestants.
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The first thing you can do is to come off that thread then, or any thread where you’re currently arguing about Protestantism. I get that it’s an interest, but all it’s doing is reinforcing your pride. So you need to take a step back on that.
Michael16 said:
But, when it comes to Protestantism; it’s hard for me to stay academic and charitable. I try.
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So put even more effort into being charitable than you do for your niece’s best friend. Throw yourself into seeing the things you have in common instead of seeking out divisions to play gotcha or tear down arguments. Think before you speak/type - are you saying what you are because it makes you feel better? Are you saying it in front of a receptive audience? If you say it, will it help relationships or make them worse?
 
I like your points. And yes, I’ll be leaving the apologetics field in Sola Caritas. I thought about that earlier at work, and I believe that’s what God is leading me to do.
 
I don’t want to reinforce my pride. I know that pride is one of the Seven Deadlies and I think that apologetics isn’t my calling. When I discern what God wants.
 
Evidence from where, the Bible? Don’t go sola scriptura on me!

I think it’s evidence enough that there are dark-skinned people in that part of the world, and probably always have been. Perhaps there is historical evidence of dark-skinned people in that region in those days, but I am not sure how to gather such evidence.

Looking at it another way, what evidence is there that Jews in those days were racially uniform (unmixed with the nearby Arabic, Egyptian, North African, etc.)? What evidence is there that the apostles were all of unmixed “average Jewish” descent?

I would choose my battles, and this does not look like a hill to die on.
 
Fair enough. Sorry to go Sola Scriptura on you. Just battlefield reflexes.
 
Hmm…I’m sorry that your mother is disapproving of you.
When my mother saw me discerning the Catholic faith, she said to me: “Why don’t we take a look, too?” My father originally suggested the conversion but I took the first step. This change resonated in them, and I asked them if they could convert, too- which they did.

My advice for you is to pray for your mother. Lutherans have a lot of common factors in their faith with Catholicism, but I’m really sad to hear that your mother is disapproving. There are a number of saints who made this process, such as St. Edith Stein. St. Edith Stein made a very hard decision to leave her faith and become a Carmelite nun. Maybe you can ask for her help.

Blessings.
 
You have a good point on race mixing. There was a lot of preaching against Jews intermarrying with Gentiles. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were some Africans in the Holy Land at the time.
 
Thank you. The thing is my mom is low church Lutheran. I know that high church Lutherans can find common ground with us. When they’re not fighting with us.
 
I see. I know that a lot of high church Anglicans also have common ground with us.
I think St. Elizabeth Seton was also a convert to Catholicism. I prayed a lot when my parents were converting and when my older cousin was converting to become Catholic. Prayers help 🙂
 
Yeah, that’s so true. Another thing is: My Mom blew up at me after I converted. She actually said to me, rather heatedly: “ What, Lutheranism isn’t good enough for you? “ She took it as a personal attack. As well as she wondered if I converted so I wouldn’t be in the same denomination as my ex wife. We had a really bad post divorce relationship.
 
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