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Alex337
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So instead of trying many ways to solve the problem we should throw our hands in the air and accept that women will be attacked and we must hide away? I think not.
What Role Do Catholics Play in Combatting Rape Culture?
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Alex337
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Heh, yeah, I wish I could find the other video I had once. But I suppose the message to me is that consent doesn’t need to sound robotic, it can be flirty. And enthusiastic consent can be too.
How to do it depends on you and your partner of course, what sounds flirty to one person doesn’t to another. My partner is the master of (terrible) innuendo, and that works for us.
How to do it depends on you and your partner of course, what sounds flirty to one person doesn’t to another. My partner is the master of (terrible) innuendo, and that works for us.
Fair enough. But that’s broader than just consent.
Yeah, but you can’t teach them to discern when silence means yes and no. And to be honest, sex outside of marriage is part of the problem here.
Again the problem is that consent is only a small part of the picture. And only one of many boundaries. I have taught this too but I was at pains to express that consent is only one aspect. The girls I taught actually had generally conservative views on the issue.
You can be worried all you like but sex happens with implicit consent as well. This is another problem: the demand for an explicit consent for each and every act is simply not necessary. Especially in a committed relationship. You can know that your spouse is giving consent through body language etc. The reason this is being pushed so much is because in sex outside a committed relationship these things are less evident because you might be having sex with a stranger.
No we have to be realistic and accept that there are bad people and that’s not going to change and consent workshops ultimately won’t stop rape from happening.
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Rozellelily
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I think so too.
If men are just taught to be respectful to women and be caring instead of enthusiastic yes consent etc, then much of these problems would be solved.
Women also need to be taught to feel comfortable saying no if something doesn’t feel right to them.
If a situation and the social signals are that ambiguous in the first place then they probably shouldn’t be having sex anyway.
If men are just taught to be respectful to women and be caring instead of enthusiastic yes consent etc, then much of these problems would be solved.
Women also need to be taught to feel comfortable saying no if something doesn’t feel right to them.
If a situation and the social signals are that ambiguous in the first place then they probably shouldn’t be having sex anyway.
My wife would simply burst out laughing and tell me I’m ruining the mood if I said some of these.
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Bruised_Reed
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Then we’re not talki ng about rape culture any more. When your main concern is one or more of those blokes ripping your pants off a violating you, and it happens when you are leaving work late, going for a run, etc. When you’ve been leered at by someone who’s probably in his 30s when you’re 12, when you get nasty things yelled at you and you don’t even know what they mean but you know they aren’t nice, then you might understand rape culture. But right now you don’t; you’re fixated on one facet of it.
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Alex337
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It’s really not. Consent should come first before any sexual things; don’t just kiss someone without making sure they want to, don’t just flash your genitals at someone without making sure they consent to it, it’s all about boundaries.Alex337:
Fair enough. But that’s broader than just consent.
Exactly! So you teach them not to assume it means yes, instead to use their words and check in with their partner. And it goes for girls too; girls are raised to think all men are sex crazy all the time. We need to teach them that kind of expectation is not the case.Alex337:
Yeah, but you can’t teach them to discern when silence means yes and no. And to be honest, sex outside of marriage is part of the problem here.
It’s actually a pretty big part. There are many types of rape and rape due to a person being unable to consent, due to various factors other than having been mugged in an alley, is all too common. And every part needs to be addressed; it makes no sense to not teach this stuff when it’s so easy and can help so much.Alex337:
Again the problem is that consent is only a small part of the picture. And only one of many boundaries. I have taught this too but I was at pains to express that consent is only one aspect. The girls I taught actually had generally conservative views on the issue.
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Alex337
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[/quote]Alex337:
You can be worried all you like but sex happens with implicit consent as well. This is another problem: the demand for an explicit consent for each and every act is simply not necessary. Especially in a committed relationship. You can know that your spouse is giving consent through body language etc. The reason this is being pushed so much is because in sex outside a committed relationship these things are less evident because you might be having sex with a stranger.
Actually I’ve linked videos about this
It’s super easy, if you have a pre-existing understanding with a partner that’s consent. But it does need to be explicit. Some partners may agree to being woken to a sexual encounter, but for others this would be beyond their consent limits. And the sad fact is that marital rape exists; so checking in from time to time is a healthy practice. And it doesn’t need to ruin the moment, it’s just about keeping a dialogue open; it can even improve things.
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Alex337
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That’s why you need to cater to your audience 
Which is more likely to stop that though: Consent workshops or teaching men to be real men and respect women.
Also, nothing we do is going to permanently stop rape from happening. If people think that there’s some magical world where women will always be safe from rape then they’re living in cloud cuckoo land. Whatever we do to improve the matter the fact remains that we’re always going to have sin and evil and we simply have to protect ourselves as much as possible: Hence why I would always collect my wife/sisters if they’re out late.
Also, nothing we do is going to permanently stop rape from happening. If people think that there’s some magical world where women will always be safe from rape then they’re living in cloud cuckoo land. Whatever we do to improve the matter the fact remains that we’re always going to have sin and evil and we simply have to protect ourselves as much as possible: Hence why I would always collect my wife/sisters if they’re out late.
That’s a bit gross IMO.
I’m not denying that, I’m just saying that it’s not always a verbal thing.
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Alex337
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Consent workshops do teach men to respect women.
Here I would disagree. They teach men to respect one aspect of the woman. But they don’t teach men to truly respect the woman as a child of God. You can follow all the rules of consent and still be a man that simply uses women and has no respect for them. That’s why I believe it’s reductionist and simplistic.
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Alex337
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And that’s fair; it’s not something for everyone. But there are a myriad of clarifications partners will talk about over their years together. Some people like sex on their periods, some don’t. Some people like sex in the shower, some don’t. Lights on, lights off. Is the lounge room off limits. Some people don’t like sex after meals. Peoples tastes and preferences are many and varied, so establishing with a partner what their preferences are is important to helping both be happy and enjoy it.Alex337:
That’s a bit gross IMO.
Maintaining a health dialogue about sex while in a relationship is, of course, about more than just consent; it’s about making sure both people are getting what they want out of the encounter. Tastes have even been known to change over the years, so it’s good to check in.
That’s fair. In a long established relationship it may not need to always be verbal. But checking in on occasion for a chat can be helpful.Alex337:
I’m not denying that, I’m just saying that it’s not always a verbal thing.
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Alex337
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I taught at a public school, so the lesson was secular. But it was from the standpoint that you should respect your potential partner as an equal. You’re about to do something very meaningful with this person, you need to care for their desires as well as your own, in many ways it’s essentially a teamwork situation.Alex337:
Here I would disagree. They teach men to respect one aspect of the woman. But they don’t teach men to truly respect the woman as a child of God. You can follow all the rules of consent and still be a man that simply uses women and has no respect for them. That’s why I believe it’s reductionist and simplistic.
True but these things are much broader than the issue of consent and involve long term communication.
My big problem with “consent workshops” is that a lot of them seem to be geared toward casual sexual encounters. Which won’t actually do anything about the problem of men objectifying women.
My big problem with “consent workshops” is that a lot of them seem to be geared toward casual sexual encounters. Which won’t actually do anything about the problem of men objectifying women.
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Alex337
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I think that’s in part because all too often they’re tacked on as a thing for right before people go to college. I think we need to start sooner, and that need not be in a smutty way.
Here’s a short clip of a Dutch kindergarten lesson on sex and relationships;
Notice how they don’t need to talk about sex at such a young age, but they talk about what people do when they love each other; hug, kiss, get married. By weaving this kind of learning through a life long style of learning you can better teach consent than a two hour workshop. I’ve seen other lessons in this style where it talks with children about how they should only hug someone if they want to be hugged, and kids understand that.
I’m a high school teacher and I’ve gotten to teach sex ed a couple of times. While most of my lessons will be about the biology and safety of the act I make sure that my first class of the unit deals with consent, something that is often left out of such lessons.
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Rozellelily
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To be fair to the guy, he did have good points in the video at 8:30 where he mentioned regarding other videos which teach men how to be a playa or “have game” etc how to overcome women’s “last minute resistance” and how that is disrespectful and is corercion the opposite of consent.
The fact that he mentions that there are videos out there teaching socially awkward or rejected men how to coerce women into having sex is extremely concerning.
The fact that he mentions that there are videos out there teaching socially awkward or rejected men how to coerce women into having sex is extremely concerning.
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angel12
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Not everyone has someone to “collect” them.
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