What should a homosexual person do

[Bruno_Schulz]

Bruno, how does these words apply to hermaphrodites with mixed chromosomes?

**We are here talking about healthy people, who prefer the perverted to the normal. Not about really ill people, like hermaphrodites.

God is the absolute righteousness and perfection of love itself. So God knows how to judge everybody’s doing and everybody will be judged in absolute justice, the moment when he stands before God.

But it’s not only, that just God knows. We ourselves know if we do right or wrong. Always! No question about that. Animals don’t – therefore they can’t do wrong. We can as we alone do have the freedom to do as we please. We might do everything but, not everything is right. 1 Cor 6:12 "Everything is permissible for me - but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible for me - but I will not be mastered by anything”.

So, it’s absolutely ridiculous, to divide Christians in fundamental and “liberal” Christians. Burying ones owe remorse and constructing laws of own whateverism, doesn’t change a thing on Gods never changing law and commandments.

What does LIBERAL view of Christianity mean:
Nothing else, but that “LIBERALS” don’t let God decide what’s right or wrong, but impertinently decide themselves what’s right, simply by proclaiming their doing as right, and there’s nothing more to it.

Well – “liberal Christians” will be told by Jesus Christ what always had be right or wrong – as they knew before, but denied.

**

 

[po18guy]

Bruno, how does these words apply to hermaphrodites with mixed chromosomes?

I am wondering what difference chromosomes make regarding sin? This generation seeks for an excuse for every behavior. Now, if they are not in control of their thoughts, that is a different matter which is not chromosomal.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I am wondering what difference chromosomes make regarding sin? This generation seeks for an excuse for every behavior. Now, if they are not in control of their thoughts, that is a different matter which is not chromosomal.

The verses imply that the people Paul was descibing had homosexual desire caused by sin. We can agree the people Paul was talking about were given over to lust, so that their hearts were corrupted and their natural desires changed.

In order for one’s natural desires to change, there first has to be a definition of what “natural” is. For a man it is a natural to desire a woman, and vice versa.

What do you do when a person is not clearly a man or a woman? How do you define sin for them? Pathia, the person on this thread I am referring to, is already chaste. Yet, for some people, that isn’t enough, and they cannot accept her. They won’t see that her sexuality is not sinful, it could not possibly be.

It is impossible for this to a be a moral issue for a person who is fundamentally sexually disordered by their own body. This is similar to telling a person in a wheelchair that it is a sin for them not to walk.

 

[fix]

I wonder what the psychological landscape will look like when the majority of the American population – not just educated, well-traveled, cosmopolitan people in university towns – has met and worked with gay people. What will it be like when most “straight” people know LGBTs not as monsters or sexual predators or gay-pride-parading-whips-and-chains-perverts or remote TV personalities, but rather as friends and colleagues, as parents and neighbors, as teachers and scout masters, as school board members and soccer coaches. It will be interesting to see what the death of an older generation will bring about in terms of an attitudinal shift.

Do you mean desensitization? Not simply accepting people as we all should, but accepting disordered behavior as normal?

I ask because we often see the argument presented that if people only were friends with sexually active homosexuals that in some way would convince them such behavior is good. Which is a terribly shallow argument seeing as we are all sinners and interect we other sinners every day yet few claim we should accept illicit drug use simply because our friends use drugs.

Although, it has happend with fornication in that what the popular culture, and intellectual elites, all act as if it is no moral problem at all.

 

[caydamien02]

Or, you can pray for the strength to avoid sinful behavior. God does not expect you to be perfect, just that you are fighting sin with your heart, knowing that sin is sin - no matter the type of sin. Same as drug or alcohol abuse, compulsive anything and other disordered behaviors. Is a sober alcoholic committing sin? No, just as a celibate single or SSA person is not. THose with SSA are considered single, since marriage was defined by God as man and woman - as He created us. Yes, it’s a struggle, but how happy are you in the lifestyle? Get out of it and your happiness will increase.

Christ’s peace and strength be with you.

thank you. I am praying for strength, that’s why im still catholic, and don’t plan to commit suicide! it is so funny and easy as spitting to compare homosuxuality/SSA to additcted behaviour like alcoholic… i too should think of your inclination towards opposite sex aka your future lover/spouse is also an addiction which should be tame with prayers. LOL! Pope Benedict XVI when speech at German was talking about “reasons”. unfortunately instead of following logic and reason, you quoting an anti-gay-bible-believing-christian refute. alcoholic… LOL
again “lifestyle”… tell me is heterosexual is lifestyle too? well if it is, well sorry, i dont choose lifestyle that against my nature. -oh sorry,… how happy am i in the “lifestyle”? LOL… will you be happy if someone ask you to go Mass underground? will you be happy if your Catholic Brethren tells you going to hell if you don’t deny your natural desire? get out from where? o yeah, from my Catholic brethren bigotry. yeah from people who think have the authority to tell you who you can love and who’s not. the wolf in the sheep clothes.

i pray for your wisdom, dignity and virtue in Christ’s Most precious Holy Name.
Sancta Mariae ora pro nobis.
thank you for the prayers too. Pax!

 

[caydamien02]

Are you trying to imply that homosexuals are…HUMANS just like heterosexuals?! With good ones and bad ones?! With healthy ones and sick ones?!

/sarcasm

No disrespect intended but I think the problem is that many people often just focus on “sexuality” instead of seeing behind the facade, instead of seeing the person created in God’s image.

I guess we can agree that homosexual acts are grave sins, but who of us is without sin? We ought to stay true to the faith, but that does not require treating others like they were highly contageous mutants…

LOL… humans!! yeah isnt that amazing! but listen… we are the children of God too!!..



grave sins… how? when love involve? how can love be sinful?
well, father Abraham and Jacob had polygamist sex but gosh, they are not stone to death or being -refused communion- LOL…
there are loving couple who could procreate + enjoy sex but there are also loving couple who could NOT procreate(impotent) + enjoy sex. for all have sinned…indeed… but Christ has justified us by his grace through His redemption. if Catholic gays are going to hell anyway(eventhough they are in monogamous loving relationship), then it’s a mock to our Lord’s precious blood. then, the Cross would be wasteful for us. there are nasty gay man who love sex more than God but that does not mean the righteous one doesn’t exist just as they are straight Catholic who fallen into the trap of porn but does not mean there are no chaste Catholic.

Christ died to take away our sins not our sexuality.

amen in Christe.
Sancta Mariae, ora pro nobis.

Grace be with you.

 

[Annn]

** Not about really ill people, like hermaphrodites.

**

1. Those who have ambiguous genitalia or genetic makeup - those we may in the past have called “hemaphrodites,” now prefer the term intersex. There is a poster on this forum who has explained why, but basically there is some linguistic/historical reason why “hermaphrodite” is offensive.

2.) Intersex people are not “sick.” They were just born with different genetic makeup or genetalia than typical people.

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you mean desensitization? Not simply accepting people as we all should, but accepting disordered behavior as normal?

Perhaps it’s disordered to you; that’s a matter of perspective.

 

[po18guy]

1. Those who have ambiguous genitalia or genetic makeup - those we may in the past have called “hemaphrodites,” now prefer the term intersex. There is a poster on this forum who has explained why, but basically there is some linguistic/historical reason why “hermaphrodite” is offensive.

2.) Intersex people are not “sick.” They were just born with different genetic makeup or genetalia than typical people.

That is what Christians refer to as their cross to bear. We all have our crosses, each one of us. Some crosses are apparent, some not, but we all struggle daily and need strength which has its source beyond ourselves and beyond this world. We are all held to the same standards of moral behavior, unless there is an organic or psychological reason explaining our inability to control our actions.

Welcome, especially if you are searching. Lord willing, you will find a home here from which you will never desire to leave. Amen.

 

[fix]

Perhaps it’s disordered to you; that’s a matter of perspective.

No, it is disordered. That is objective. Do you think that moral relativism is compatible with being Catholic? IOW, how can Catholics reconcile your position with Catholic teaching?

 

[po18guy]

thank you. I am praying for strength, that’s why im still catholic, and don’t plan to commit suicide! it is so funny and easy as spitting to compare homosuxuality/SSA to additcted behaviour like alcoholic… i too should think of your inclination towards opposite sex aka your future lover/spouse is also an addiction which should be tame with prayers. LOL! Pope Benedict XVI when speech at German was talking about “reasons”. unfortunately instead of following logic and reason, you quoting an anti-gay-bible-believing-christian refute. alcoholic… LOL
again “lifestyle”… tell me is heterosexual is lifestyle too? well if it is, well sorry, i dont choose lifestyle that against my nature. -oh sorry,… how happy am i in the “lifestyle”? LOL… will you be happy if someone ask you to go Mass underground? will you be happy if your Catholic Brethren tells you going to hell if you don’t deny your natural desire? get out from where? o yeah, from my Catholic brethren bigotry. yeah from people who think have the authority to tell you who you can love and who’s not. the wolf in the sheep clothes.

i pray for your wisdom, dignity and virtue in Christ’s Most precious Holy Name.
Sancta Mariae ora pro nobis.
thank you for the prayers too. Pax!

The comparison to addictions is given only to provide examples of behaviors that are able to be overcome. Suffering is suffering before the Lord. Since our God is a God of hope, He will provide for all in need who call upon His name for strength. As mentioned, He knows that we will fail, but loves us in our struggle.

Do not think that I am immune to temptations, as I fight my own demons and am crushed when I fail. Jesus instituted the Sacraments for our salvation and consistent reception of those Sacraments is spiritually edifying for each of us. No matter the fight you fight, help is available for the seeker, either from the Church, groups associated with the Church, as well as from fellow Catholics.

May the Lord bless you in your struggle. Without struggle, we will not merit the crown of victory that God has waiting for us.

Christ’s peace.

 

[StAnastasia]

thank you. I am praying for strength, that’s why im still catholic,…it is so funny and easy as spitting to compare homosuxuality/SSA to additcted behaviour like alcoholic…
again “lifestyle”… tell me is heterosexual is lifestyle too? well if it is, well sorry, i dont choose lifestyle that against my nature. -oh sorry,… how happy am i in the “lifestyle”? LOL… will you be happy if someone ask you to go Mass underground? will you be happy if your Catholic Brethren tells you going to hell if you don’t deny your natural desire?

caydamien02, you make some interesting points here. One thing I have always wondered is why homophobes don’t simply ask gay and lesbian people four questions:

(1) Why is your sexuality so important to you that you are unwilling to deny it, repress it, and spend your life in the closet, alone and lonely?

(2) Why is love for another so important to you that you are willing to risk the opprobrium, contempt, and even hatred of people whose sexual orientation makes it impossible for them to understand your love?

(3) Why is your Catholicism so important to you that you are willing to remain in a Church that condemns and reviles your love for your partner?

(4) What makes your love of God so strong that you remain a believer, despite the fact that some of your fellow Catholics will threaten you with the fires of everlasting perdition simply for living with integrity as the person you have always known you are?

If we want to engage in real and substantive dialogue on this issue, it seems to me a sine qua non that those of us who enjoy the unrealized hegemony of “straight” culture must ask these questions of our LGBT sisters and brothers, and really listen to their answers.

StAnastasia

 

[StAnastasia]

That is what Christians refer to as their cross to bear. We all have our crosses, each one of us. Some crosses are apparent, some not, but we all struggle daily and need strength which has its source beyond ourselves and beyond this world. We are all held to the same standards of moral behavior, unless there is an organic or psychological reason explaining our inability to control our actions.

What are you saying? That an intersexed person is never allowed to choose a gender and get married?

 

[fix]

caydamien02, you make some interesting points here. One thing I have always wondered is why homophobes don’t simply ask gay and lesbian people four questions:

(1) Why is your sexuality so important to you that you are unwilling to deny it, repress it, and spend your life in the closet, alone and lonely?

(2) Why is love for another so important to you that you are willing to risk the opprobrium, contempt, and even hatred of people whose sexual orientation makes it impossible for them to understand your love?

(3) Why is your Catholicism so important to you that you are willing to remain in a Church that condemns and reviles your love for your partner?

(4) What makes your love of God so strong that you remain a believer, despite the fact that some of your fellow Catholics will threaten you with the fires of everlasting perdition simply for living with integrity as the person you have always known you are?

If we want to engage in real and substantive dialogue on this issue, it seems to me a sine qua non that those of us who enjoy the unrealized hegemony of “straight” culture must ask these questions of our LGBT sisters and brothers, and really listen to their answers.

StAnastasia

The Church has answered you many times and in many ways including:

As in every moral disorder, homosexual activity prevents one’s own fulfillment and happiness by acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church, in rejecting erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit but rather defends personal freedom and dignity realistically and authentically understood.

. Thus, the Church’s teaching today is in organic continuity with the Scriptural perspective and with her own constant Tradition. Though today’s world is in many ways quite new, the Christian community senses the profound and lasting bonds which join us to those generations who have gone before us, “marked with the sign of faith”.

Nevertheless, increasing numbers of people today, even within the Church, are bringing enormous pressure to bear on the Church to accept the homosexual condition as though it were not disordered and to condone homosexual activity. Those within the Church who argue in this fashion often have close ties with those with similar views outside it. These latter groups are guided by a vision opposed to the truth about the human person, which is fully disclosed in the mystery of Christ. They reflect, even if not entirely consciously, a materialistic ideology which denies the transcendent nature of the human person as well as the supernatural vocation of every individual…

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I think there are times we need to say, “this is a complex, painful, difficult issue and I am quite sure St. Paul never addressed it in Scripture, therefore I am going to risk error on the side of love and ease another person’s psychological pain.”

Sometimes that means being humble and admitting that we do not have all of the answers.

 

[StAnastasia]

I think there are times we need to say, “this is a complex, painful, difficult issue and I am quite sure St. Paul never addressed it in Scripture, therefore I am going to risk error on the side of love and ease another person’s psychological pain.” Sometimes that means being humble and admitting that we do not have all of the answers.

My point exactly in post # 150.

 

[StAnastasia]

The Church has answered you many times and in many ways.

You misunderstand my post. I asked non-LGBT people to ask these questions of LGBT people, questions at the intersections of their very being. Why is being who you are so important to you? Why are God and the Church so important to you?

StAnastasia

 

[fix]

You misunderstand my post. I asked non-LGBT people to ask these questions of LGBT people, questions at the intersections of their very being. Why is being who you are so important to you? Why are God and the Church so important to you?

StAnastasia

I did not misunderstand. I gave you the answer. That is how people look at those questions. Not in some morally relativistic way, but starting from the Truth.

Why do you reject what the Church teaches?

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

**

It is impossible for this to a be a moral issue for a person who is fundamentally sexually disordered by their own body. This is similar to telling a person in a wheelchair that it is a sin for them not to walk.

Now really. Here are in populist ways things compared, that admittedly let people nod, but indeed can’t be compared. It even insults wheelchair users.

There are millions of people who never live out what’s here called “natural desires”. By far and away not only priests, nuns, monks, but millions of people, unmarried and even married, for reasons that vary across the whole scale of life; do NOT let themselves be mastered by what some call “natural desires”!

Obviously those fighters for “natural desires” either way – if natural or perverse, don’t want to understand. They believe, anyone has a natural right to practice whatever they think are their “natural desires”.

Let’s hope you don’t think, all these people who for very godly reasons do NOT practise what some call “natural desires”, are inconceivable nutcases.

I have a friend who’s wife (for medical reasons) can not realise what some call “natural desires”.
My friend never, never, never would even think of staying his “natural desires” other ways. He lives like a priest, as many a husbands and wife do out of love - not fulfil “natural desires”.

Are we animals, that we just have to?
**

 

[needtoknow5]

The Church has answered you many times and in many ways including:

Almost everyone uses the biblical passage to vote against homosexual marriage. I realize the church interprets the passages, but I am not totally convinced that the church’s interpretation is correct. It might mean heterosexuals should not have sexual relations with homosexuals. That I can agree on. But homosexuals face too great a burden to deny what they honestly feel. Therefore homosexuals should be allowed to marry, but not to have promiscuous sex as I know well that they do so, much more than heterosexuals do. The church has left it up to our conscience if we want to fight in a war even if the gov’t says we should. Our conscience says what is right and what is not. (look at all the unecessary wars-preement my BUTT. Therefore if a gay is sincere and follows his conscience he cannot be doing wrong. Now I am referring to most not all homosexuals and not to lesbians as there are many lesbians in my mind that simply turned to that nature beause of many things and were not born like that. Rejection and hurt by many males convinced them to follow that way. I also met a male who went homosexual because he could not get a girl. He told me so. But the majority I believe were born to that nature.
Let us not be so rightous that we condem our fellow humans.