What stops a man from pursuing?

[GreyWings]

A heavy porn and masturbation habit also counts toward an “Augustinian” past, and in some ways can be more burdensome to deal with than past relationships with actual human beings.

I would personally look in askance at a guy with an encyclopedia of porn on his computer (or in his head) who wants a virgin bride.

Thank you! A voice of reason.

Well, if we’re going to “keep it real” and “honest”, what is offensive is for a virtuous man (and yes, they are out there; not every male has an “Augustinian past”) to be called a “holier than thou” simply for seeking a woman of similar virtue (and yes, I believe they are out there, and they are not all in the convents; we just need to find a way of bringing them together).

Look, we all have deal-breakers and standards of compatibility. Let me give you some examples (and I would hope that the “analogy police” would look at the point being made rather than dissect the objects used in the analogy). Would you fault someone who grew up in an abusive childhood situation to want to avoid someone who has a temper, even if it was in the past and the person went to confession? Similarly, a person who grew up in a home situation where there was alcohol abuse may be hesitant to marry someone who is in AA because he/she does not want to risk a relapse and reliving that horrible nightmare for the rest of his/her life. Are these people offensive “holier than thous”?

Considering whether a person’s past is compatible with yours is not a “red flag”, but rather an act of prudence. If someone does not find you compatible, don’t bite his head off; rather, move on and find someone else who is compatible.

Haha, dude, not for nothing but you’re reading way too much into my statement. I’m just speaking on the perspective that ANYONE’S sins, are sins nonetheless, and it’s not kind to hold a person’s sins against them when we are ALL guilty of sin, even priests, and even SAINTS.

I wasn’t attacking the guy I was replying to. I was saying that I would not give HIM the kind of day with that attitude. I couldn’t give a toss what he thinks of me personally, because I keep it real and walk the walk. Because if we’re following our Lord, who embraced prostitutes and lepers, and we’re meant to honor his last commandment and love one another, how are we doing HIS work by judging the redeemed? I mean, really.

If a dude doesn’t want a woman who has made mistakes, then that’s pretty much asking for the impossible. Who hasn’t made mistakes and sinned? Sins are sins. It’s like having a checklist rather than embracing the whole person. There’s a lot more to a person than the mistakes they’ve made. How do we come closer to Christ without mistakes, without suffering? Do you read St. Paul’s letters?

 

[dedo]

I really like this idea of bidding. It’s really interesting. …food for thought.

Thanks for the + response to my bid. I don’t want to read too much into your response, but maybe it means we are destined to be internet besties or digipals for life.

Just kidding.

psychotherapy.net/blog/t…ouples-therapy

There are several articles on how the bidding process works. Interestingly, this article notes how being “present” enables couples to diffuse tense situations. I have noticed in my own life that not only are relationships better, but ability to handle tense situations at work is improved with Christian meditation.

For me, although I am very curious about other people’s point of view, especially people with different viewpoints. what is especially attractive is:

1. Clarity of intentions. The person does not “keep you guessing”, but signals that more conversation is o.k. I recently read a comment on a blog where a high school girl was “stressing” about a guy who kept sending mixed signals. All of the people advising her said “run”.
2. Principled living. e.g.: meaning not that the person shares my principles, but the person cares about something other than themselves.
3. Honesty.
4. Enthusiasm for something, especially for making a difference somewhere.

Interestingly, in last weeks’ sermon, the priest noted that the first people invited to visit the Holy Family were not even believers. The wise men who followed the star were pagans.

Thus, although opposites attract and we are all God’s children, people who are especially interesting have interests outside of themselves including the people they interact with. Thus, I don’t mind occasionally erring on the side of awkwardness to let those people know they are intriguing, whether or not anything comes of it.

Good luck.

 

[Rose71]

May I suggest it is the whole ‘dating’ culture and unrealistic expectations on both sides?

When I finally met my DH, we met among a group of people with the same interests and got to know one another slowly but surely, as friends, over a few years. No pressure; no unrealistic expectations and no ridiculous ‘benchmarks’ that people of both sexes are prone to fabricating, for example: “if he hasn’t called after x days”…or, “if she didn’t reply to that text within Y hours…”

There were no ‘dealbreakers’ because there was no ‘deal’ on the table - so to speak! That is the beauty of true friendship and spiritual compatability. It doesn’t come with demands or expectations. It’s about just enjoying a person’s company for who they are. If you don’t have that with a person of the opposite sex, there is no way you are ever going to have a succesful marriage, no matter how much effort you both put into ‘dating’ and analysing and trying to select based on any kind of mental checklist.

Marriage is a vocation that requires discernment like any other, but it’s unrealistic and destructive to pin all your hopes and dreams on a person you hardly know; jump in at the deep end by mentally refering to the time you spend together as ‘dating’ and ‘discerning’ and then do all you can to maintain the illusion that someone is marriage material because you’ve followed all the steps in the flow chart and invested so much emotion and time.

My best advice in looking for a spouse came from my parents. Here it is…

1. Stop looking!
2. Be open and friendly towards everyone and somoene will come along with whom you feel completely at ease and able to be yourself.
3. When you’ve found someone, ask yourself, “am I happier with or without this person in my life?”

and that’s it really! I spent years wasting my time trying to thikn too deeply; investing a lot of emotion and ‘planning’ in several men who I wasn’t at all suited to, but just wanted that ‘happy ending’ and really, as 1ke so perfectly put it - men spend time on what they want to spend time on!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Oh. For. Crying. Out. Loud.

Where do you come up with wanting a compatible spouse = porn and masturbation habit? Where do you come up with these weird logical gymnastics?

Let’s add these types of far-out accusations to the list of reasons men stop pursuing.

Accusation? No one accused you or anyone of anything. Take a little personal responsibility here; if Xantippe’s statement against marrying a porn user makes you stop pursuing, then that’s your choice and your issue.

 

[Xantippe]

Oh. For. Crying. Out. Loud.

Where do you come up with wanting a compatible spouse = porn and masturbation habit? Where do you come up with these weird logical gymnastics?

Let’s add these types of far-out accusations to the list of reasons men stop pursuing.

I’m not making accusations, I’m just clarifying what kinds of activities need to count toward an “Augustinian” past.

 

[Xantippe]

My best advice in looking for a spouse came from my parents. Here it is…

1. Stop looking!
2. Be open and friendly towards everyone and somoene will come along with whom you feel completely at ease and able to be yourself.
3. When you’ve found someone, ask yourself, “am I happier with or without this person in my life?”

That’s reasonable girl advice.

I think a guy would also need to add a step #4: Ask out.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

You’re not being fair to the people who have repented and turned to the cross. Many saints, like Ignatius, was a womanizer and did bad things before he turned to God and then became a SAINT.

It is through suffering that we are brought closer to God. I’ve never been promiscuous or abused drugs but I have made mistakes likes everyone else; I’m not better than those people who were and repented, and neither are you. Jesus loves us all.

Just saying.

I admit it seems pretty strange to talk about fairness. If you’re on the pursuing end of the dating game you’d know that women reject for frivolous reasons(too poor, too short, wrong hair color…ect) or no apparent reason at all. In fact if dating were a sport its rules would mostly resemble Calvinball. Women (and I presume men as well) only talk about fairness when they are the ones being rejected. When they are doing the rejecting, well then, it’s only “fair” that they date someone they have chemistry with. I admit that I wouldn’t stop pursuing a woman who had put a decade behind her past, but when you’re dating in your 20’s there aren’t exactly any women who fit that mold.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

That’s reasonable girl advice.

I think a guy would also need to add a step #4: Ask out.

Stop looking but ask out? That is like saying stop but go Stop looking so hard, but do ask women out maybe?

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

Thank you! A voice of reason.

Haha, dude, not for nothing but you’re reading way too much into my statement. I’m just speaking on the perspective that ANYONE’S sins, are sins nonetheless, and it’s not kind to hold a person’s sins against them when we are ALL guilty of sin, even priests, and even SAINTS.

I wasn’t attacking the guy I was replying to. I was saying that I would not give HIM the kind of day with that attitude. I couldn’t give a toss what he thinks of me personally, because I keep it real and walk the walk. Because if we’re following our Lord, who embraced prostitutes and lepers, and we’re meant to honor his last commandment and love one another, how are we doing HIS work by judging the redeemed? I mean, really.

If a dude doesn’t want a woman who has made mistakes, then that’s pretty much asking for the impossible. Who hasn’t made mistakes and sinned? Sins are sins. It’s like having a checklist rather than embracing the whole person. There’s a lot more to a person than the mistakes they’ve made. How do we come closer to Christ without mistakes, without suffering? Do you read St. Paul’s letters?

This is silly. I’m with Norseman on this one.

Take “purity” out of the equation. No one is saying “if you have sinned in your past, you have no right to be with me.”

But men AND women may look and say “your past may impact our future.”

If a man or woman has made integrity and honesty the focus of their life, and meets a nice person who has a history of deceit and lying in their past, they may look elsewhere. Why not? It isn’t passing judgement on them, but merely saying “we may not be a good fit together.” Marriage is LONNNNNNNG.

Do you honestly think women don’t do it? My wife had (minor) reservations about me coming from divorced parents (before she got to know me) and I understood why, statistically speaking. Once circumstances became clear, it was a non-issue. And that wasn’t even my sins being addressed! Did I blame her? Of course not. She was doing her due-dilligence, and I understood why.

If we cannot examine someone’s past when evaluating them as a potential lifelong spouse, we are being foolish. It isn’t about blame, it is about preference, compatibility, and the notion of being together forever.

Again, why are we acting as though this is someting only men do? Any woman who doesn’t look for potential red flags in a man is being naive. Not judging them as holy, but simply judging them as a good fit. EVERYONE does this.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I admit it seems pretty strange to talk about fairness. If you’re on the pursuing end of the dating game you’d know that women reject for frivolous reasons(too poor, too short, wrong hair color…ect) or no apparent reason at all. In fact if dating were a sport its rules would mostly resemble Calvinball. Women (and I presume men as well) only talk about fairness when they are the ones being rejected. When they are doing the rejecting, well then, it’s only “fair” that they date someone they have chemistry with. I admit that I wouldn’t stop pursuing a woman who had put a decade behind her past, but when you’re dating in your 20’s there aren’t exactly any women who fit that mold.

I agree with you. I don’t believe in “fair” when it comes to dating because you are not entitled to a shot with someone just because you like them. Conversely, you are not obligated to give someone a shot just because they like you. When I was single, I turned guys down for all sorts of reasons, including lack of physical attraction. Nothing wrong with that.

That said, I do think that screening for sexual history is a red flag and does indicate that the person may not be ready for a relationship for a number of reasons. Just like he has right to screen, I have the right to refuse to introduce him to a virginal friend of mine. It’s only come up once, and that was back in undergrad, but I actually warned a friend about a guy who was an admitted virgin hunter in hopes she wouldn’t go out with him. It made her as wary as it made me and she turned him down. Also, well within her rights.

 

[Xantippe]

That said, I do think that screening for sexual history is a red flag and does indicate that the person may not be ready for a relationship for a number of reasons. Just like he has right to screen, I have the right to refuse to introduce him to a virginal friend of mine. It’s only come up once, and that was back in undergrad, but I actually warned a friend about a guy who was an admitted virgin hunter in hopes she wouldn’t go out with him. It made her as wary as it made me and she turned him down. Also, well within her rights.

Yes. Virgin hunters are a thing and they are gross.

seraphicsinglescummings.blogspot.com/2011/04/white-dress-thing.html

 

[dedo]

I would not have dreamed of asking my wife about previous people she dated before or after we were married.

So if that is your criteria, others can eliminate you for having that criteria, or for any other reason.

Last time I checked, it was still a free country.

The people who complain about unfairness in others’ choices should focus on making themselves into someone worth choosing.

For myself, the only relationships I am interested in outside of family relationships, and spending time with a few close friends, is business relationships and sporting relationships with other people around (not just two people).

The only litmus test for me is interest and talent, and if it is in sport, just be reasonable with the force.

My right leg is only mildly bruised over ~ 5 cm region because my trainer said that to develop the counter for the leg kick, I had to eat some of the kick. However, because I pay him, I can still walk.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I would not have dreamed of asking my wife about previous people she dated before or after we were married.

I would never have dreamed of asking either. The information was always either shared with me without asking or was obvious from the men that she dated in the past.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I would never have dreamed of asking either. The information was always either shared with me without asking or was obvious from the men that she dated in the past.

I have found that a strong contrast between myself and the men she previously dated can be a marker of she’s trying to make a change in the kind of men she goes out with. Which isn’t a bad thing in and of itself. But old habits don’t always die off. How good is she at leaving the past behind? What is it she’s seeing in me vs what she saw in those men? Not a red flag, but still questions that have to be asked.

 

[St_Pancake]

No, I didn’t miss it. They can be faithful Catholics now and have all of those things in their past.

Yeah. Rule one: Never date a sinner, current or former.

 

[Mike1955]

I admit that I have not read the responses to this post. But the answer is: Fear.

Fear of rejection.
Fear of intimacy.
Fear of inadequacy – emotional, financial, sexual.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Yeah. Rule one: Never date a sinner, current or former.

You’re the second person to make the leap from no sexual promiscuity or hard drugs to “you might as well wait on the Blessed Virgin herself.” I never said that she had to be a virgin; she can even hit the blunt on weekends if she bout it. What I’m saying it It’s normal for a person looking for a spouse to clean up and start trying to get their life together. But if you really want to know what that person is like when they aren’t putting their best foot forward look at what they’ve done in their recent past. If you aren’t willing to live with the behavior don’t overlook it. How many threads do you see on CAF where the woman is heartbroken her husband is looking at porn again? She usually knew about his past but chose to overlook it for one reason or another.

 

[Xantippe]

You’re the second person to make the leap from no sexual promiscuity or hard drugs to “you might as well wait on the Blessed Virgin herself.” I never said that she had to be a virgin; she can even hit the blunt on weekends if she bout it.

I believe the issue is that there are people out there who say “promiscuous” when what they really mean is non-virgin, so when you say “promiscuous” you’re heard as saying non-virgin, even though what you mean is “promiscuous.”

If that makes any sense?

 

[GreyWings]

Yeah. Rule one: Never date a sinner, current or former.

Rotfl I needed that You win the Internet

I want this quote in my signature now

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I believe the issue is that there are people out there who say “promiscuous” when what they really mean is non-virgin, so when you say “promiscuous” you’re heard as saying non-virgin, even though what you mean is “promiscuous.”

If that makes any sense?

No, nothing like that. I might as well be waiting on the Blessed Virgin herself if those were my standards. When I say promiscuous I mean engaging in sexual relations of a transient nature as opposed to taking place in a long term relationship. When I say hard drugs I mean drugs that quickly cause physical dependence as opposed to things like cannabis or mescaline.