What teachings would the Catholic Church have to drop for you to be a catholic

[gcnuss]

Hery Gary.
Great to have you here brother.
You probably wont see this because this is the thread gone wild… but I take the chance.

Amazingly, I did see it. Sometimes when these threads run on and on I give up following them, but here I am.

I grew up Lutheran and became a Catholic in 2004 mainly because I perceived the Holy Spirit to be calling me to receive the Body and Blood of Christ in the Catholic Church.
In the Lutheran Church I grew up in the Eucharist was revered by many, but everyone could receive it without any seriousness and after the service the bread and wine was trown into the garbage or zink… so I think there is a huge difference there in how the RCC perceives Holy Communion as an objective transformation taking place not within my mind as I receive in faith, like Luther taught, but as a real transformation of bread and wine into Body and Blood.

I’m sorry that you experienced that sort of disrespect for the Eucharist. We certainly do nothing like that in my congregation.

I have personally experienced that the Eucharist has great healing power in the Roman Catholic Church and the official Church teaching is such that we know what we believe it is, and no Catholic can say its a symbol or a only subjective reality.

It’s good to hear that you know the healing power of the Eucharist. People who deny the reality of Christ’s body and blood are missing a great deal.

I have met protestant pastors that I regard highly and I am sure the Lord delights in, who were more Catholic in their understanding and thus wouldn’t waste any of the Body and Blood as they perceived it, while their colleages didn’t care,…

Thanks be to God for those who are faithful.

This huge difference in understanding and no authority except the subjective mind in the Lutheran world has also made me aware that Lutheranism is an island… or a house built on sand.

I think that Lutherans who take seriously the Confessio Augustana are grounded in an authority beyond themselves. Sadly, many do not do so.

I love my brethren but the Lutheran Church where I am is going under because its conforming to the culture of death and offers no real resistance. In my country the Lutheran pastors even have begun to “bless homosexual marriages” in the churches, we have lesbian women pastors that openly engage in active homosexuality… And we basically have a watered down truth… but hey, that last part is also experienced in the Catholic Church.

I agree that terrible things have happened, and are happening, within the church. Pray that the Holy Spirit will act and that people will be led back to righteousness.

 

[guanophore]

And I still believe that the only three whom are infallible, are, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit! As for Peter, we all know that Jesus was speaking to Peter, as to “feeding His sheep”. But we also know, that Peter died a horrible martyr’s death and so the job of feeding the sheep was taken up by other Christians

Just one Christian, that being St. Linus 67-76 11y3m12d followed by
St. Anacletus 76-88 12y then
St. Clement I 88-97 9y2m10d
St. Evaristus 97-105 9y7m2d Aristus a Greek
St. Alexander I 105-115 10y7m8d
St. Sixtus I etc, until the present day Pope Benedict.

This is called the Successon of St. Peter.

It is a great credit to you that you are willing to acknowledge the martyrdom of Peter.

And of course, we know that He didn’t just mean “feed” them materially! He meant spiritually also! Today, because of Christ’s death on the Cross, and subsequent resurrection, and His exhortation in Matthew 28:19-20, we are ALL to feed the sheep; to carry rhe message of hope and Good News to all ends of the earth!

All are called to evangelism, certainly, and we can all be one beggar telling the other beggars where to find the bread. But it is only to those that have been ordained by Christ that have the ministerial duty to care for the flock. The habit of many to put themselves forward to this task has resulted in appalling fracturing of The Body of Christ.

The pope is not Christ on earth, nor do we heed his teachings; they are for catholics only:thumbsup:

Like Peter, the Pope carries the special charism to feed and care for the flock. His teachings are for the Body of Christ, and apply to all those who are members of His One Body,the Church. The rejection of some of those appointed by Christ only nullifies the extension of His grace to themselves. Persons who reject the authority appointed by Christ through the Apostolic succession are members of the tribe of Diotrephes:

"I have written something to the church; but Diot’rephes, who likes to put himself first, does not acknowledge my authority. " 3 John 9-10

The followers of Diotrephes, who reject the shepherds appointed by Christ, will pay the same consequences.

I know that this is a catholic forum, and the focus is to promote the catholic lifestyle, and further the movement!

Actually, the main mission is to offer Catholic Answers to people who have questions about the faith. People such as yourself, who have been steeped in ignorance, misinformation, and lies are the main focus.

But, when you open the forum to all-comers, you have to expect resistance and friction, from non-catholics! Most or all of us do not accept the pope as vicar of Christ; he is just you religion’s leader!

It is true that we do expect resistance and friction from non-catholics. However, the successor of Peter is the shepherd of Christ’s One Church, as He only has One Flock,and there is only One Shepherd. He has given the care of His flock into the hand of Peter.

I have the utmost respect for the pope, and the catholic church,

Actually, this is not the case. If this were true, you would consider his spiritual life at least as healthy as your own, which your posts clearly indicate you do not. You would also hear what he has to say as a man of God, but you don’t.

but in your equation, disagreement+doubt= hate

I agree that this equation is not accurate. It also seems to me that you have tried very hard, while rejecting the Catholic faith (or at least what you believe it to be) to be very charitable in the process. I don’t think your posts have been hateful.

the thief on the cross, who Jesus promised would be with Him in Paradise, could never have happened. The apologetic’s reasoning was because the thief would not have had time to come down and be saved and baptized! To me, this was one the greatest displays of grace ever!!!:

I hope you are not confusing the misunderstanding of uninformed Catholics with the Teaching of the Church. The Church Teaches that the thief was saved by grace, through faith, just as we all are.

My curiosity about the catholic religion was piqued, by catholic friends whom I have had(sometimes quite heated) discussions with about religion or things spiritual! Joining this forum, was more a matter of exchanging ideas, and learning more about why you guys believe what you believe!I know I come across as ignorant and arrogant, but please believe me, I love the Lord, as much or more than the next Christian!

I believe you. I do think you are sincere and that you are making honest inquiries. It is true that you have embraced a great deal of error, and have been given misinformation about the Catholic faith. Sometimes you come across as arrogant because you are so sure Catholics are “wrong”.

 

[guanophore]

All churches exist because of memberships.

No, Thor. Such a statement reflects a deficient view of the Church. The Body of Christ Exists because He has built a Church. Even of all the"memberships" of the denominations vanished, the Church would still exist.

Each member will be judged by God against His Word.

Are you referring to the Scripture?

If a ‘member’ of one church wishes to meet with a member of another church in order to discuss God’s Word, and pray together, is this evil?

No. It is not necessarily “good” either.

No church ‘owns’ the Word of God.

T’he Scripture was produced by, for, and about the Catholic Church. When it is separated from the Apostolic Teaching that produced it, all sorts of errors ensue.

If a person lives their lives as requested by Christ, and chooses to not be a member of any church, will this person go to hell?

That is up to God. It is clear that we are to love one another as He has loved us. He has built a church, and through baptism, made us members of His One Body. He had directed that we are not to forsake the assembly of ourselves together. One who rejects the other members of the body sins against them,and against the Head of the Church.

. Each member, should be praying for answers from God, if they become unsure as to the validity of what they are forced to follow. Solomon provides a very good example of this.

Thorwald Johansen

Thor, no one is “forced” to follow doctrine. The nature of faith is that one freely embraces the Truth. Otherwise, it is not a faith practice, it is a cult, and the person is still in slavery.

 

[guanophore]

Hi Tom,

In your post you make this statement:

“Christ has paid the full price for the salvation of all mankind. None of us get to heaven by our efforts- but, by cooperating with the Grace of God and DOING what Christ said to DO. And that means you have to WORK for this eternal treasure…”

Herein, lies the MASSIVE CONTRADICTION of your position. On the one hand you assert - correctly - that no one gets to heaven by their own efforts; on the other hand, you assert that a person has to WORK for the eternal treasure of salvation and eternal life.

I agree with you Craig. The Apostolic Teaching is clear that salvation is a free gift, and that no “work” of mankind will result in earning it. We can earn rewards, by good deeds, but all of these result from being in a state of grace, which is a free gift. I think there is a world of difference between working “on” and working “out” salvation.

This much is consistent with what the Apostles beleived and taught

There is no distinction of “true believers” found in Apostolic teaching. However, we do find that believers (partakers of His grace) can fall from grace, be cut off, fail to finish the race, lose the prize, and have their names blotted out of the book of life. It is these apostolic teachings that leave us in a position where we must reject the new formulation of of the Reformers.

 

[benedictus2]

This might be a little harsh, bene. I agree with your last statement (as well as those in the middle) that such statements emanate from ignorance. As such, they cannot technically constitute a “lie” which is a deliberate attempt to deceive someone. beleevr is himself prey to this deception, but is not himself the source of it. The sin of lying cannot be ascribed to him, therefore, all he is guilty of is pandering deception. Even then, since he believes what he has been erroneously taught is true, his offense is not as serious as if he did so deliberately. By the time CAF gets done with him, though, matters many be worse! To fall into the sin of Diotrephes he must first understand the truth. Given the vast ignorance demonstrated in his posts, getting to the point of pandering outright lies will take a while.

Actually, I am correct and don’t think I am being harsh in saying that he “mouthed a lie” in the sense that he spoke an an un-truth ( a lie ) but he was not lying as such because he has not truly apprehended the error.

That is why I did not say he was lying because there was no culpability there. Just ignorance.

Which has just totally confused me now because when one tells a lie isn’t it that they’re usually lying ???

So therefore one could be stating a truth and be lying if one does not see it as truth?

I think I need to go back to school and study English.

 

[benedictus2]

I agree with you Craig. The Apostolic Teaching is clear that salvation is a free gift, and that no “work” of mankind will result in earning it. We can earn rewards, by good deeds, but all of these result from being in a state of grace, which is a free gift. I think there is a world of difference between working “on” and working "out" salvation.

What an excellent point!!! Three little letters and what a difference it makes.

 

[benedictus2]

Hi Benedictus2,

If you read my response to SteveGC you will understand more fully the Doctrine of Salvation that I hold to.

I reject the doctrine of SINLESS PERFECTION after true spiritual regeneration has taken place. The true believer is NEVER absolutely sinless or perfect - in this world, in this life; that reality will occur, however, when true believers are GLORIFIED at the Second Coming of Christ.

May God bless you, In Christ Craig

Hi Craig,

I did read your reply to Steve but what I cannot reconcile is your position that “true believers” are completely and irrevocably regenerated and yet still be prone to sin.

Perhaps I do not understand what you mean by completely and irrevocably regenerated but the way I see it, this doctrine contradicts free will. And even your statement that you do not believe in sinless perfection after Complete and Irrevocable Regeneration (CIR) in my understanding contradicts each other as well.

If a person is CIR then does it not stand to reason that he will no longer sin?

Would appreciate your clarrrification.

Cheers,

Cory

 

[guanophore]

Ah yes, the human mind; endowed with so much intelligence, yet sometimes unable to understand the most mundane of issuesGod granted us(not sure whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing) free will and the ability to reason! If ten of us got together and read a paragraph or short story, and then were asked to give our interpretation of what we had just read, ther is a distinct possibility, that we could have ten different versions

You are wise to acknowledge this.

If I understand your red highlighted comment, I am supposed to read scripture, then scratch my head, and say, “Duh, I wonder what that means”

No, but you have taken the biggest step by admitting that it is our own personal interpretations that result when we read.

What we are to do is to be noble, like the Bereans, and accept the Apostolic instruction with eagerness. In this way, the Scriptures will be understood from the perspective in which they are written.

As far as confession; catholics go, is it weekly, or as needed, I’m not sure. I’m also not sure if it is mandatory, highly recommended or what.

It is required at least once a year, before Easter, but most of us are not saintly enough to last that long.

As for myself, I have been confessing sins directly to God, through my intrcessor Jesus Christ for 42 years, and it’s still working

Do you think that Catholics are not confessing to God? How does the presence of a priest in the room make God “go away”?

I have on occasion, if I felt comfortable, shared with a pastor,

I think this is a very salient point about confession. It can be very uncomfortable. Jesus knew that facing this is part of what we need to heal from sins, that is why He set it up that way.

about a sin that I had already confessed(James 5:16), but I do not ask him to forgive it. I know that only God can forgive sins.

How do you dispense with the Scripture that says God gave this power to men?

And I notice also, that no one comments on activities like street ministry, outreaches, feeding the homeless, etc., things that are addressed by our Lord in Matthew 9:37-38, Matthew 25:31-46, and Mark 10:45!

How is that related to the thread topic? If the Catholic Church gave these up, would you become Catholic?

I was told, that it was tantamount to shouting! But let’s agree on one thing; no one can tell anyone else that they’re not saved, or their salvation isn’t secure

I am sorry, but it is not possible for Catholics to agree to such a thing. Such an act would be affirming an error, and an abandonment of Apostolic teaching.

I have not expressed that idea on this thread, or any thread for that matter. But reading some of these posts, one could get the idea, that if they didn’t follow a certain set of guidlines to the letter, that their salvation was not valid! Not pointing fingers, just making an observation!

I can see where it might seem that way. But we are saved by grace, through faith. The Church’s duty is to teach the faith through which we are saved.

And since you have shown where Abraham was also called the rock, along with God, and Jesus, then you must admit that someone could, and probably say that the Rock was Jesus, with Peter as the first church leader, which I believe was made up of Jews, who got saved, and followed Jesus, correct! Who’s right, who’s wrong, who knows?

Jesus does, and He revealed all that the Apostles needed to know. What He revealed to them was that, when He renamed Simon bar Jonah “Rock” (Cephas) it was because He grafted Him into His own “rockness” and made Him a foundation stone of the Church.

When we meet our Saviour on that glorious day, will any of this matter?:thumbsup:May the Lord of Heaven’s Armies richly bless you, my brother in Christ!

The reason it matters is because those who reject the Apostolic Teaching run the risk of not ever meeting the Saviour on that glorious day. They may, instead,meet the consequences of rebellion and disobedience.

 

[guanophore]

And yes, among many Christians, the message of Matthew 16:18 is still in debate:confused:

This is a reflection of the refusal to accept the Apostolic Teaching. Those that wrote the passage have the best understanding of what is meant by it. This understanding has been passed on through the Apostolic succession. Jesus did not intend for the Scriptures to be a source of “debate”. They are to be received as profitable for the Christian life.

when was the last time that you witnessed to someone, any one about Christ, and not your religion?

I am surprised you would ask this, since it was the witness of faithless so called “catholics” that has repelled you from the Church founded by Christ. One gives a witness to their faith every moment of every day. On cannot give a witness that does not reflect upon Christ, and the Body of which he has been made a member.

  I'm denomination blind!

If this were true, you would be Catholic.

I guess you missed the part about “religion” being a despicable word! Like it or not, by whatever means you catholics want to deem it, we sre a part of the Body of Christ:thumbsup:

It is very Catholic of you to acknowledge what the Church teaches, that all who are members of Christ are members of His One Body. Apparently you just don’t recognize this as His Church.

According to Scripture, religion is not a despicable word. In fact, you are practicing your religion daily. You might want to consider giving up this unbiblical attitude.

I aure hope that joe370 is the only one yelling and screaming in this thread!

Maybe, when he learns to use the quote feature, he won’t have to?

It has been interesting and combative, inspiring and informative!

It is a credit to you that you are even willing to BE informed! :clapping:

As to Mstthew 16:18, let me present a theory, about why some may not immediately accept the catholic position. In reading the Old Testament, and also many times in the New Testament, God and Jesus are referred to as the Rock:thumbsup:So, with that in mind, why is it so farfetched for us to believe that Jesus was speaking about Himself in Matthew 16:18?

Of course He was speaking about Himself! He does not become less “Rock” because He also makes Peter part of Himself! On the contrary, Peter becomes Rocky also. This is true of any of the Characteristics of God. Imparting them to us does not diminish them in Himself.

Scripture interpretation is something that humans do constantly, and then it’s a matter of who’s wrong and who’s right!

Exactly! That is why Jesus appointed an authority to settle disputes.

 

[guanophore]

Does the catholic church think that unbaptised babies go to hell?

No, but the Church does teach that we are all born into this world separated by God from sin, as we all bear the consequence of Adam’s sin. We are all under the sentence of death by default.

John 3:17-19
18 He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 1

Faith is Christ is the means by which He has given to escape the death penalty.

 

[joe370]

Hey Thorwald…

You said:

I have read so many comments in this forum, and am totally amazed. All churches exist because of memberships. Each member will be judged by God against His Word.

Did Jesus build a church, and as per the bible, declare that He is the Head and Savior of His Body the church? Is His church being guided by the Holy Spirit, in perpetuity, as per John 14-17 or is every person, regardless of church affiliation, via private interpretation of the bible, being guided by the Holy Spirit? Is the Bible the pillar and foundation of truth–or is Jesus’ established church circa 33 AD the pillar and foundation of truth --, which of course is the only reason why I can trust that the bible is in fact true and trustworthy??? I agree; each member of His one united church, and of the insular and fractured protestant churches, and all those outside His said churches, will be judged by Jesus.

If a ‘member’ of one church wishes to meet with a member of another church in order to discuss God’s Word, and pray together, is this evil?

Absolutely not! However, I am not welcome in either my sisters church or the Lutheran church, to which I once belonged; Their teachers and leaders, as per their charter, consider me an apostate.

No church ‘owns’ the Word of God.

What about the church that codified and canonized your bible? Why do you trust that they got it right vis-a-vis the correct inclusion of books in your bible, and yet doubt them on other things? If they got it wrong on say, purgatory, perhaps they got it wrong vis-a-vis your Holy Bible, given to you by which church???

If a person lives their lives as requested by Christ, and chooses to not be a member of any church, will this person go to hell?

No human has the answer to that question!!!

Only God can judge a person’s heart. He will judge each person against that which He has taught us.

Which church out of a bevy of churches in the world today is correctly teaching and edifying, as the apostles did? Truth is not relative; there can be only one truth vis-a-vis any one doctrine --right? Is it the Pentecostal church, the various Lutheran churches, the Baptist church, the 7th day adventist church, the E.O.C…

We judge people based on a very limited personal knowledge of their lives.

We shouldn’t being judging, period, as per the bible; there is only one divinley righteous judge!

We have no knowledge as to whether they are being chastised, tested for worthiness, or in some cases, turned over to a reprobate mind. Every congregation in the world, probably consists of some members falling into these different categories.

How many churches existed when Jesus said, take it to the church…when Jesus said, the gates of hell will never prevail…when Jesus said, I will send you the Paraclete…?

Although different congregations follow different ‘doctrines’,

Do you think Jesus is OK with this, considering the fact that He fervently prayed that His established church would be one, as He is with His Father. Read John 17! Everyone teaching something different leads to chaos and confusion; who is the author of confusion, as per your bible?

it is the individual members that will be judged in the end. Part of their judgment will be doctrine related. If the doctrines are not following the Word of God,

Again, tell me why I should trust the word of God???

then the teachers become ‘false prophets’. Each member, should be praying for answers from God, if they become unsure as to the validity of what they are forced to follow. Solomon provides a very good example of this.

Amen to that my friend; prayer is a powerful weapon, as per the bible; Jesus hears all!!! As Dr. Frasier Crane, on the show Frasier, says: I’m listening! LOL…

 

[joe370]

Hey guanophore…

Wow, you went on a veritable answering spree… LOL…

I totally agree with you; you said:

It is very Catholic of you to acknowledge what the Church teaches, that all who are members of Christ are members of His One Body. Apparently you just don’t recognize this as His Church.

According to Scripture, religion is not a despicable word. In fact, you are practicing your religion daily. You might want to consider giving up this unbiblical attitude.

You said:

Maybe, when he learns to use the quote feature, he won’t have to?

You are so right; that was not the best way to differentiate between what I was saying and the other person was saying.

 

[joe370]

I grew up Lutheran and became a Catholic in 2004 mainly because I perceived the Holy Spirit to be calling me to receive the Body and Blood of Christ in the Catholic Church. I grew up Lutheran and became a Catholic in 2004 mainly because I perceived the Holy Spirit to be calling me to receive the Body and Blood of Christ in the Catholic Church.
In the Lutheran Church I grew up in the Eucharist was revered by many, but everyone could receive it without any seriousness and after the service the bread and wine was thrown into the garbage or sink… so I think there is a huge difference there in how the RCC perceives Holy Communion as an objective transformation taking place not within my mind as I receive in faith, like Luther taught, but as a real transformation of bread and wine into Body and Blood.

I have personally experienced that the Eucharist has great healing power in the Roman Catholic Church and the official Church teaching is such that we know what we believe it is, and no Catholic can say its a symbol or a only subjective reality.

I have met protestant pastors that I regard highly and I am sure the Lord delights in, who were more Catholic in their understanding and thus wouldn’t waste any of the Body and Blood as they perceived it, while their colleages didn’t care,…

This huge difference in understanding and no authority except the subjective mind in the Lutheran world has also made me aware that Lutheranism is an island… or a house built on sand.

I love my brethren but the Lutheran Church where I am is going under because its conforming to the culture of death and offers no real resistance. In my country the Lutheran pastors even have begun to “bless homosexual marriages” in the churches, we have lesbian women pastors that openly engage in active homosexuality… And we basically have a watered down truth… but hey, that last part is also experienced in the Catholic Church.

May the Lord have mercy on us all…

Hi Grace DK…

I know what you mean; I’m a former Lutheran as well! What did your former church teach vis-a-vis the words: *“I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.” *(John 6:53)

Joe370…

 

[Matariel]

And yes, among many Christians, the message of Matthew 16:18 is still in debateI

Not for Christians who interpret it the good ol’ apostolic way (i.e., the way of Christ’s Church on Earth, the Catholic Church).

Is Protestantism necessary?

Nah. It’s pretty much a rehashing of the rebellion of Korah.

Good question, but you’re asking the wrong person, I’m denomination blind!

If this were true, you’d be Catholic; since it is the Catholic Church which is pre-denominational, while Protestantism is divided into numerous sects, and the Eastern Orthodox divided into separated jurisdictions.

I guess you missed the part about “religion” being a despicable word!

Read the Epistle of St. James. He doesn’t seem to think it’s a despicable word.

 

[guanophore]

When I look at the pope, I see only a man, not Christ, so much.

Is this a reflection of your inability to discern Christ in the hearts of others?

It may be your resistance to things Catholic is preventing you from perceiving him as a “true believer”.

Like other MEN who have been ordained to minister to all of us! And Mathew 28:19-20, although spoken directly to the disciples, I believe,was directed to us!

Yes and no. Christ was addressing those whom He had chosen and ordained. We are all called to preach/share the gospel. Yet there are some who have been specially set aside for this ministry. Why should the Pope have “less” of God’s gifts to preach and teach than yourself, or any other person committed to ministry?

While we are not all shepherds, we are, as the body of Christ, His representatives on this earth; and as such, should also, “feed His sheep.”

Yes, to some extent, we are all beggars telling other beggars where to find the bread. As you will recall, the OT is a shadow of that which was to come. In the OT, we see a High Priest, a priestly tribe, set aside by God for the service of the ministry, and the people of God, called to manifest God to the world. So is it in the NT, Christ our High Priest, then those ordained and set aside for the ministry to the people, and the priestly calling of all the people of God.

The pope is a very influential man, and like all other pastors, priests, he has been anointed to serve as a leader. I would shake his hand, if I ever met him:thumbsup:

I would hope that you would follow the cultural courtesies that are afforded to all foriegn dignitaries.

I hope you also pray for him, as he does for you.

And I am sure that if you polled most non-catholics, they would probably say that the pope speaks only for the catholic world

Fortunately, “most catholics” do not determine the Teaching of Jesus committed once and for all to the Church. Jesus appointed Peter to feed and care for the flock. He taught that there is only One Flock, One Body, One Church. Therefore, the one He has appointed serves all those who are joined to the Head.

The ten commandments, because they were delivered by the hand of God, are in and of themselves PERFECT! We however aren’t, and hard as we try, we just cant’ keep them!

Yes, we can. Jesus does not command anything that He will not enable us to do. The commandments can be kept, by grace, through faith, just like we fulfill all that God desires for us.

Paul himself, formerly a Pharisee declared that, “the law leads us to sin”>

No. This is a misunderstanding of what Paul was teaching. What God gives as perfect never leads to sin.

AS Jesus stated, “If you look upon a woman with lust in your heart, you have already committed adultery with her”. And “If you hate, it is the same as murder, for in your mind, you have killed him” Don’t misunderstand; I am not dismissing the ten commandments, just saying that it is impossible for mortal man to keep them

By ourselves, yes, but with the power of God, all things are possible. If this were not the case, there would be no one living under the law who was righteous, yet we know of many figures, born under the law, that were righteous in the sight of God. They lived by faith, through grace. In this manner the Law of God is fulfilled in us, the fruits of His labor.

God knew that and so He sent Jesus, to die on the Cross for all of our sins, so that we may be reconciled back to HimMark 15:38.

He has set His Spirit within us to will and to do God’s good pleasure. This includes the keeping of His commandments, which are not burdensome!

Yes, I admit, that I am stubborn! My mother and my siblings have been telling me that all my life! But aren’t we all, to a certain degree? Iam my most stubborn when defending the Cross where our beloved Saviour gave His life for us! He paid a price we couldn’t afford, for a crime He didn’t commit!

This is a good thing. What if there was more to the Christian life than what you have been taught?

I can tell you that many non-catholics out there on the streets, in the nursing homes, and feeding, visiting! :thumbsup:In the one street ministry that I volunteer with, in the three years I have been there, we have had no catholics come out

Catholics are encouraged to express the corporate works of mercy in venues where the Apostolic message is available. There are times when it is efficacious to join with those who have embraced heresies, but when this can be avoided it should be.

 

[guanophore]

The poster of the list is Janet1983 dumped the list and fled. why?

Because she felt she answered the question of the OP?

 

[guanophore]

although I don’t hate anyone, I sometimes feel like the label, catholic hater has been attached to my nameIt really doesn’t matter, because the most important thing in my life is serving and worshipping my God! One of the hardest things I ever told my wife, was that I love God more than Her! As I go along this path called life, I cannot lift any man to a position, that would be equal to Christ! No offense, but I just disagree wit youse! Viva OSAS!

No problem, beleevr, you are not actually in “disagreement” with us. We do not hold the Pope up as an equal to Christ. He is a man, chosen by God to serve the Body. We esteem Him as one chosen by the Lord for a specific ministry. We obey Him out of honor for Christ, who taught that those who reject the ones He has sent reject Him.

Communion was something that I really didn’t understand until later in life! In many churches, it is celebrated as an acknowledgement of the enormous sacrifice that Christ made for us For some, it is a somber occasion, marked by dim lights, and music that would rival most funeral dirges! While I have never been to a regular catholic mass, I have been to a funeral, at a catholic church, and was puzzled to see the priest putting wafers on the tongues of parishioners, who had lined up before him At the Last Supper, didn’t Jesus pass the cup of wine around, and tell His disciples, “This my blood, for the New Covenant, that is shed for the remission of sins”? And didn’t each disciple break off his own piece of bread, and eat it! I don’t believe in transsubstantiation; sounds weird( I know John 6:51-57) So why is the priest, the only one who drinks from the cup? Is this a Biblical practice or a catholic doctrine?

This practice is both biblical and Apostolic (catholic) doctrine. However, I think such a question is beyond the scope of this thread.

Salvation is a free gift and works are important, but only as far as to confirm a persons really is saved.
If someone gave you a present and said to you, here is a free gift for you and you take it and thank them and the they say, now you must work for me to pay for it, then how was it free.

I agree. However, getting a gift we do not deserve does not absolve us from responsibility for it. When I was a callow youth, my father bought me a used car. He told me that I did not have to pay for it. however, I was responsible for maintaining it. I had to pay the insurance, and the maintenance and repairs. Did these responsibilities make the gift less “free”?

People take a scripture and on it’s own it can seem to mean something that it doesn’t, like loss of salvation.
Scripture must be compared with scripture and certainly not with extra biblical writings.

You are revealing the ignorance of your own family history, Secure. When we read the Early Church FAthers, we have a glimpse into what the Scriptures meant to those who were trained by the Apostles. Are you afraid to find out what they really believed?

We are in the very last day’s and scripture is being twisted to fit whatever a person wants it to mean, but God will not be mocked and many people are going to be in for a shock, when they realise all too late that they have used scripture to justify their sin.

This is true,without a doubt.

 

[guanophore]

In response to post#699, let me first say that my understanding of people who are ordained to enter the ministry; is this. They are called by God,led by the Holy Spirit, and consecrated to be in the Lord’s service! And this will be my final post about the pope, because it appears that we are at a standoff, in regards to his significance to the non-catholic world(here, I am speaking just for myself)1) the pope has never been, and will never be my holy father; my Holy Father is the Creator of the universe, and my boss is a Jewish carpenter(sorry about using an old quip)20 there are countless people who are called by God for His service in preaching, teaching, encouraging, etc.,3) my disagreement with the pope’s position, is not derogatory(although sometimes I think it may be inflammatory), it is my opinion! So, with as much respect as I can muster, I believe that the pope is a very intelligent, compassionate, and obviously well read and humble MAN! I would not feel compelled, however, to kiss his ring, if I was ever to meet him! Where did this tradition start? God bless the pope, and all others, who are taking God’s love into the world:thumbsup:

Thank you for this explanation. The custom of kissing the ring developed in when the Emperor moved the seat of the Roman Empire from Rome to Constantinople. At that time, in the 6th century, there was no other organized structured governing entity. He therefore entrusted the secular matters of Italy to the Bishop of Rome, and gave him a signet ring. Kissing this ring, just as it was for a secular authority, was a cultural expression of respect and obedience.

In the East, it is customary to bow, rather than to shake hands. This is a similar cultural custom.

Hi Benedictus2,

If you read my response to SteveGC you will understand more fully the Doctrine of Salvation that I hold to.

I reject the doctrine of SINLESS PERFECTION after true spiritual regeneration has taken place. The true believer is NEVER absolutely sinless or perfect - in this world, in this life; that reality will occur, however, when true believers are GLORIFIED at the Second Coming of Christ.

May God bless you, In Christ Craig

Such a position is contradictory to what the Apostles believed and taught.

 

[Cinette]

Because she felt she answered the question of the OP?

I PMed her twice to tell her that I had responded but she ignored my messages!!

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Cinette,

I think Ginger is showing good judgment… she has expressed herself and had several instructional responses.

I PMed her twice to tell her that I had responded but she ignored my messages!!

Best wishes,

Tom