What teachings would the Catholic Church have to drop for you to be a catholic

[w_stewart]

God told us to ‘honour’ our parents. We do this by following the Word of God. We dishonour our parents by following satan.

Thorwald Johansen

Are we Catholics following Satan by honoring Mother Mary? Direct answer please.

 

[Thorwald]

Indeed, it is deplorable how our Protestant brethren offend our Mother, the Mother of our Saviour. Jesus, for sure, feels the pains everytime her Mother is put in the situation like this.

If our Muslim brethren honor our Mother, why cannot the Protestants do that? I wonder why.

Mary is carnally ‘dead’. She has not been resurrected as yet. If she is currently in ‘paradise’, that is between God and her. No man has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man, who is in heaven. Mary is awaiting her resurrection and judgment as much as we are. We bring honour to Mary, by following the Word of God. We honour Mary, by honouring Jesus Christ and glorifying His Father (Our Father) in heaven.

Thorwald Johansen

 

[SteveGC]

We bring honour to Mary, by following the Word of God. We honour Mary, by honouring Jesus Christ and glorifying His Father (Our Father) in heaven.

Thorwald Johansen

That’s funny. That’s how WE honor Mary too. What did you THINK we did to honor her?

 

[w_stewart]

Mary is carnally ‘dead’. She has not been resurrected as yet. If she is currently in ‘paradise’, that is between God and her. No man has ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of Man, who is in heaven. Mary is awaiting her resurrection and judgment as much as we are.

If you mean no human souls in heaven now, then you are wrong. Revelations contradicts your proposition.

We bring honour to Mary, by following the Word of God. We honour Mary, by honouring Jesus Christ and glorifying His Father (Our Father) in heaven.

Thorwald Johansen

Disregarding your contradictions, please answer my question.

Don’t you think Mother Mary deserves the highest form of respect we can give to a human being who happens to be the Mother of God who died for us?

 

[Thorwald]

First of all, we do not worship Mary.
Second, are you saying the “Word of God” is the Bible? For even the Bible calls Jesus the Word of God. And so, you are saying “we are adding to Jesus”. And yet, the Bible once again tells us, that there are many teachings of Christ not written down. Hence tradition is necessary. Nevertheless, there is nothing in Sacred Scripture which refutes the veneration due to the Blessed Mother of our Lord.

God Bless

Jesus is ‘The Word in the flesh’. Jesus also states, “And the word which ye hear, is not mine, but The Father’s who sent me.” By this statement, I would have to assume, that His Father is also The Word.

Yes there are many things told unto us, that have not been recorded. This does not give us the right to ‘make up’ even more.

Thorwald Johansen

 

[w_stewart]

Jesus is ‘The Word in the flesh’. Jesus also states, “And the word which ye hear, is not mine, but The Father’s who sent me.” By this statement, I would have to assume, that His Father is also The Word.

Yes there are many things told unto us, that have not been recorded. This does not give us the right to ‘make up’ even more.

Thorwald Johansen

Please provide evidence that the Father is also the Word and prove to us that this is not just your “make up”.

 

[SteveGC]

Jesus is ‘The Word in the flesh’. Jesus also states, “And the word which ye hear, is not mine, but The Father’s who sent me.” By this statement, I would have to assume, that His Father is also The Word.

Yes there are many things told unto us, that have not been recorded. This does not give us the right to ‘make up’ even more.

Thorwald Johansen

So, good. We agree atleast that the Word of God is NOT a book.

And if Jesus taught other things that were not recorded, how do you know anything else is made up? I agree it’s a quandary, but only for non-Catholics, who cling to the Bible only as the sole authority. For Catholics, it’s just fine. That’s the whole point of Sacred Tradition. This is why the Early Church Fathers, disciples themselves of the Apostles, gave due veneration to our Blessed Mother. It perhaps is not spelled out literalistically in Scripture, as you seem to demand it be, but it can be fully supported by reading Scripture under the proper, Holy Spirit-protected, interpretation of Scripture that The Church has provided.

 

[Thorwald]

If you mean no human souls in heaven now, then you are wrong. Revelations contradicts your proposition.

Disregarding your contradictions, please answer my question.

Don’t you think Mother Mary deserves the highest form of respect we can give to a human being who happens to be the Mother of God who died for us?

The ‘souls’ that you are speaking about (Revelation), are the souls of saints that have died (just like Christ) carrying out God’s work. They were slain (beheaded). Was Mary beheaded? Secondly, how do we know whether or not, they are in paradise or heaven? It depends how you interpret the passage in Revelation.

Jesus Christ, as Son of God (Lord of Hosts), has no mother. As Son of Man, Mary is His mother. As Son of Man, He was born ‘below the angels’. As Son of God, He was begotten ‘above the angels’. He has always been ‘I AM’. Remember, Mary was chosen by God to give birth to Jesus Christ. She had not requested this. God chose her. Read the other comments that I made (above). I’m repeating myself.

Thorwald Johansen

 

[Hiskid1973]

I truely believe that if more “Christian Religons” took the time to “understand and listen” to each other, truely we could make bring more “souls” to our Heavenly Father. Instead today many Christians Religions are too busy “bashing” each other and not taking the time to truely “Learn” from each other.

To Catholic brethern I know we fellowship with our love for Christ as our common bond and desire to grow and walk deeper in our spiritual walk…They give me a lot of respect for what I have to share…We know there are differences and I been told I’d made a wonderful Catholic, but what divides us is kept more to the back gound…Your earn respect for the maturity in your walk than specific disciplines you may choose or not choose to follow…Remember when we each stand before Christ to receive rewards or ash, they won’t come from the belonging to the “correct” church but what we did for Him in word and deed as led by His Spirit…

.As for teachings, I probably would choose Orthodox if I had to choose but putting the pope level rather than over all the other leaders would start the ball rolling.

 

[Thorwald]

So, good. We agree atleast that the Word of God is NOT a book.

And if Jesus taught other things that were not recorded, how do you know anything else is made up? I agree it’s a quandary, but only for non-Catholics, who cling to the Bible only as the sole authority. For Catholics, it’s just fine. That’s the whole point of Sacred Tradition. This is why the Early Church Fathers, disciples themselves of the Apostles, gave due veneration to our Blessed Mother. It perhaps is not spelled out literalistically in Scripture, as you seem to demand it be, but it can be fully supported by reading Scripture under the proper, Holy Spirit-protected, interpretation of Scripture that The Church has provided.

I have seen Jesus Christ. Have you?

Thorwald Johansen

 

[SteveGC]

I have seen Jesus Christ. Have you?

Thorwald Johansen

Yes, I see Him everyday, at Mass. Every single day. And I commune with Him in a more personal way than you might imagine.

I also “see” Him in the charity of others, as they cooperate with Grace and bring their inner-Christ out into the world.

As for Mary, might I suggest you drop the subject, because all you do is blatantly discredit and belittle her Fiat, her devotion and ultimate commitment to our Lord (see my above posts 213 and 225 for clarification)

God Bless

 

[Thorwald]

Yes, I see Him everyday, at Mass. Every single day. And I commune with Him in a more personal way than you might imagine.

I also “see” Him in the charity of others, as they cooperate with Grace and bring their inner-Christ out into the world.

As for Mary, might I suggest you drop the subject, because all you do is blatantly discredit and belittle her Fiat, her devotion and ultimate commitment to our Lord (see my above posts 213 and 225 for clarification)

God Bless

Believe what you will. I simply follow what little scripture is left for us to follow. I have seen what I have seen. When I have a problem with the understanding of scripture, I go to God for wisdom…not man.

The Trinity and the Godhead consists of four figures, not three, as all of Christianity believes. I have been in their presence. I have seen Jesus Christ and His Father, the Lord God Almighty. I could not see The Father or The Holy Ghost, but was made aware of their presence.

The Trinity is The Father, The Son (The Word) and The Holy Ghost. The Son (The Lord God Almighty) created His redeemer (The Lord of Hosts), before creating all else. This is why Jesus glorified His Father rather than Himself. Jesus was created as the first Son of God. The angels came second (as sons of God), followed by Adam (son of God) and Eve (daughter of God). If you note, Eve was created by God, but ‘begotten’ of Adam (Adam’s rib). Isaiah chpt 43 and 44:6, Rev 1:6 and Rev chpt 4 & 5, backs this up. Jesus Christ was created in the ‘express image’ of The Lord God Almighty. This includes His Father’s Word. This is why He is The Word in the flesh, as Son of Man. The writings/teachings found in the N/T contain errors. Jesus Christ has ‘replaced’ His Father, The Lord God Almighty…our creator…our God…our Father.

The above has been taught to me by God, Himself. He called His Word, “broken” and asked me if I would ‘fix’ this broken Word. I said that I would. He asked me if I thought that I could handle it. I told Him, “Yes.” This is what I am now doing. I asked Him ‘who or what I was’. He simply told me, that ‘I am who I am’. I have been asked to leave many churches. I have found not one person who believes what I have told them. I guess that this is the way that it is supposed to be. I am only doing what I have been asked to do.

In Jesus’ name,

Thorwald Johansen

 

[A_Fletcher]

There seems to be so much in common across all Christians that i wondered what would need to be changed about the Catholic church before you would consider converting e.g. stop the focus on Mary as key for many but what else would need to change…

I am not a Catholic, let me state that right out of the gate. I was raised and baptised Lutheran, but as time continues to pass I find myself thinking more and more along the lines of what I perceive Catholic doctrine to be.

One of the points I have some trouble with (and if any Catholic would be so kind as to help me understand why this is so, I would be eternally grateful) is the prohibition on contraceptives. How is it an affront to God if I’m in a stable, loving marriage but neither my wife or I believe that we’re quite ready for children? In fact, it’d seem to be the better part of responsibility to me.

I’m sure others will come to me as I think about it, but that’s about the only one I can think of right off the top of my head.

 

[ralphinal]

I am not a Catholic, let me state that right out of the gate. I was raised and baptised Lutheran, but as time continues to pass I find myself thinking more and more along the lines of what I perceive Catholic doctrine to be.

One of the points I have some trouble with (and if any Catholic would be so kind as to help me understand why this is so, I would be eternally grateful) is the prohibition on contraceptives. How is it an affront to God if I’m in a stable, loving marriage but neither my wife or I believe that we’re quite ready for children? In fact, it’d seem to be the better part of responsibility to me.

I’m sure others will come to me as I think about it, but that’s about the only one I can think of right off the top of my head.

You actually have to look at the issue itself, not the specifics. The Catholic Church has no issue with family planning. It is artificial means that she objects to. God created a natural way to do this. The female menstral cycle has days built in where pregnancy is next to impossible. So, what the Church asks is what God built in: if you have serious reason to space children, have sex on those days and abstain on the others.

Artificial means of doing this are disruptive to the marital act and say to God that you could care less about His plan for creation.

 

[jlhargus]

Jesus is ‘The Word in the flesh’. Jesus also states, “And the word which ye hear, is not mine, but The Father’s who sent me.” By this statement, I would have to assume, that His Father is also The Word.

Yes there are many things told unto us, that have not been recorded. This does not give us the right to ‘make up’ even more.

Thorwald Johansen

JL: I agree no one has the right to make up traditions of men and call them a doctrine of God. A good example, of a tradition of men, made a doctrine of God would be Sola Scriptura invented about 1521. There is a great deal of difference between traditions of men and those APOSTOLIC TRADITIONS, delivered once for all to the saints both ORAL AND WRITTEN SCRIPTURE. If that same Holy Spirit by the church can faithfully preserve the written tradition, without distortion, then the same Holy Spirit can certainly by the same church preserve that APOSTOLIC ORAL TRADITION, without distortion, that same Holy Spirit acts thru, and is the origin of both the church and scripture.

2 THES 2:14 Whereunto he called you by OUR GOSPEL, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, BREATHREN, STAND FAST, and HOLD THE TRADITIONS which ye have been TAUGHT, WHETHER **BY WORD OR **our EPISTLE.]. [According to Paul the gospel is BOTH ORAL and WRITEN

1TIM 6: Timothy, KEEP THAT which is COMMITTED TO THY TRUST, avoiding profane and vain babblings,

PHILIP 4:9 THOSE THINGS, which YE HAVE both **LEARNED, and RECEIVE, and HEARD, and **SEEN IN ME, DO **

1 THES 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye RECEIVED the WORD OF GOD which ye **HEARD **of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is IN TRUTH, the WORD OF GOD, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Jn 14: 26: But the Comforter, which is THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, WHATSOEVER I have SAID UNTO YOU.

2TIM 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast HEARD OF ME among many witnesses, the same COMMIT thou TO FAITHFUL MEN, who shall be **ABLE TO TEACH **OTHERS also.

2 TIM 1:13 HOLD FAST the form of SOUND WORDS, which thou hast HEARD of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was COMMITTED unto thee **KEEP BY THE HOLY GHOST **which dwelleth IN US.

2 TIM 1:6 …stir up the GIFT OF GOD **IN YOU BY **the PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS 7 God has given us **THE SPIRIT OF POWER ** [All baptized receive the Holy Spirit and whatever gift the Holy Spirit may choose to give. Being ordained Timothy received the gift of the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, (holy orders, in apostolic succession.) and the gifts that come with ordination. It is thru the Holy Spirit oral apostolic tradition is discerned, by the church, as opposed to a tradition of men.] 1Tm 3:15 As the pillar and ground of truth the church’s testimony is of no less value than scripture, because the Holy Spirit is the origin of both and active in both, as the council of Jerusalem wrote to the churches, Act15:28 For it seemed GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND TO US, other scriptures say, 1Jn 4:6 We are of God Whoever knows God LISTENS TO US and he who is not of God DOES NOT LISTTEN TO US. BY THIS WE KNOW the spirit of TRUTH AND the spirit of ERROR LK 10:16 He that HEARETH YOU HEARETH ME Mt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to HEAR THE CHURCH, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Jn15:20…if they have kept MY SAYING they will KEEP YOURS ALSO Jn17:20 Neither pray I for THESE alone but for THEM which shall believe on me THROUGH THEIR WORD. Apostolic Tradition is discerned with the help and guidence of the Holy Spirit, were scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The canon of the NT and OT do not give a list, of which books are inspiried, those books were discerned thru the guidence of the Holy Spirit by the Church, using Apostolic Traditions. Apostolic Traditions and Scripture must be in agreement.

 

[jlhargus]

Believe what you will. I simply follow what little scripture is left for us to follow. I have seen what I have seen. When I have a problem with the understanding of scripture, I go to God for wisdom…not man.[/QUTOE]

Catholics do not rely on man or self as those who are sola scriptura must. Relying on their own or another man’s interpretation and understanding of scripture for their salvation. Catholics rely on Christ and those whom Christ has called and set in his body the Chruch and given the Holy Spirit to guide them in ALL TRUTH. HB 13:7 Remember them which have the RULE over you WHO have SPOKEN TO YOU THE WORD OF GOD WHOSE FAITH FOLLOW…1Tim 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, ESPECIALLY they WHO LABOUR IN THE WORD AND DOCTRINE, Hb 3:17 OBEY YOUR LEADERS and SUBMIT to them THEY ARE KEEPING WATCH OVER YOUR SOULS as MEM WHO WILL have to GIVE ACCOUNT…
Thorwald;4933009:

The Trinity and the Godhead consists of four figures, not three, as all of Christianity believes. I have been in their presence. I have seen Jesus Christ and His Father, the Lord God Almighty. I could not see The Father or The Holy Ghost, but was made aware of their presence.

The Trinity is The Father, The Son (The Word) and The Holy Ghost. The Son (The Lord God Almighty) created His redeemer (The Lord of Hosts), before creating all else. This is why Jesus glorified His Father rather than Himself. Jesus was created as the first Son of God. The angels came second (as sons of God), followed by Adam (son of God) and Eve (daughter of God). If you note, Eve was created by God, but ‘begotten’ of Adam (Adam’s rib). Isaiah chpt 43 and 44:6, Rev 1:6 and Rev chpt 4 & 5, backs this up. Jesus Christ was created in the ‘express image’ of The Lord God Almighty. This includes His Father’s Word. This is why He is The Word in the flesh, as Son of Man. The writings/teachings found in the N/T contain errors. Jesus Christ has ‘replaced’ His Father, The Lord God Almighty…our creator…our God…our Father.

The above has been taught to me by God, Himself. He called His Word, “broken” and asked me if I would ‘fix’ this broken Word. I said that I would. He asked me if I thought that I could handle it. I told Him, “Yes.” This is what I am now doing. I asked Him ‘who or what I was’. He simply told me, that ‘I am who I am’. I have been asked to leave many churches. I have found not one person who believes what I have told them. I guess that this is the way that it is supposed to be. I am only doing what I have been asked to do.

In Jesus’ name, Thorwald Johansen

JL: So you are in a line of prophets, such as Mohamad, Joseph Smith, Charles T. Russell, Ellen White, Hubert Armstrong, etc.

So are you going to give us another Testament or will you simply correct the one we have now? After reading you post a second time, I don’t know if you are serious or not. I do feel sorry for you and will pray for you.

 

[A_Fletcher]

You actually have to look at the issue itself, not the specifics. The Catholic Church has no issue with family planning. It is artificial means that she objects to. God created a natural way to do this. The female menstral cycle has days built in where pregnancy is next to impossible. So, what the Church asks is what God built in: if you have serious reason to space children, have sex on those days and abstain on the others.

Artificial means of doing this are disruptive to the marital act and say to God that you could care less about His plan for creation.

Thank you for your prompt response. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way.

 

[jlhargus]

Thank you for your prompt response. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way.

I thought he did an excellent job also. Very simple he hit the nail on the head

 

[ralphinal]

Thank you for your prompt response. I hadn’t quite thought of it that way.

I thought he did an excellent job also. Very simple he hit the nail on the head

Thanks. To be honest, I might have an issue with it too had GOd not created a natural means. It is another way, in my mind, that God is showing us the Truth in the Catholic Faith

 

[1beleevr]

Well, of course, Christ’s church is relevant and important!!!:thumbsup:He established it for all of His followers and believers!(and please don’t say,"yes, but only if you are catholic)