What teachings would the Catholic Church have to drop for you to be a catholic

[tqualey]

Hi, Guanophore,

Nice response. I was truly amazed at how far off base this individual was traveling with his on-going downward spiral.

God bless

Well, thanks be to God that you are not successful in drawing anyone into your errors.

Please do us all a great courtesy, and take your anti-Catholic drivel elsewhere. CAF is here to answer sincere questions about the Catholic faith, not as a venue for you to pander such silliness.

You have provided an excellent example of why Holy Church teaches us not to chase after private revelations that are in contradiction with the Teaching of the Church. I think your work here is done.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Realcatholicgk,

I do not know why I am surprised … but, I am… I really did expect better from you.

I was impressed. Someone who actually was with God and came back to tell us about it! Thanks! Don’t go crying out in the desert! Go get your word out!
I have some advise for you. Go tell this to the Mormons. They believe a lot of stupid stuff! Your beliefs should fit right in with their doctrines! Oh, if I was you, I would tell them that I was the reincarnation of Joey Smith! That should get their atttention and get you their adoration. You can even write them more books. :whacky:Feel free to borrow from the KJV of the Bible like Joe Smith did. Remember to deny doing it so the Mormons will know you are the real deal! God Bless

Surely you had some trouble getting the words to stick to the screen since they were dripping with so much cynical venom. Don’t misunderstand me, Thorwald Johansen is really missing so many points when it comes to understanding Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular that I lost count. But, this type of response really is not called for. And, the Mormons were not part of this thread or anything close to it - is that you felt obligated to attack them, too?

I would like to encourage you to treat others - especially those who do not agree with the Catholic Faith - with dignity and respect. In my opinion this is an area that calls out for Charity as we try to demonstrate the Love of Christ in what we write. This does not mean that we agree or ignore error - only that we do not disparage those who make the error.

God bless

 

[w_stewart]

1believer, I noticed you ignored my question.

You said the Church is important. If she is important, what really is her role in one’s salvation, if in your view it has?

Please answer.

 

[Cinette]

Cinette: I believe it’s quite possible, that Thorwald, like many other non-catholics(myself included) hear so much about Mary from catholics, that there would be a tendency to believe that she is part of your worship! And, though we(noncatholics) are part of the Bride of Christ, and we definitely respect and acknowledge her contribution, we do not lift her up daily, weekly or recite the rosary:thumbsup:

When I learned to speak Portuguese years ago I was living in Mozambique and one thing I noticed is the number of times people mention “My Mother”. As in Latin, in Portuguese you place the article before “my” so you would have “the my mother” - “A minha Mae”. So when I listened to people talking I noted how often they might say “A minha Mae”.

So it demonstrates how one’s mother is important to an individual. I know someone who is now 44 years old and who lost her mother when she was 17. To this day I think that hardly a day goes by without her making reference to her Mother. “My Mother used to say” “That was my Mother’s favourite colour” or whatever. In other words, her Mother continued a part of her.

When you have a Mother like our Blessed Mother Mary how can you not make her also a part of your life, your daily life. Mothers give birth and our beautiful Lady gave birth to our Lord. She is very special indeed. Besides, she communicates to us in a very real way and points to her Son always.

Why would be not love and honour such a Mother?

Cinette

 

[Cinette]

Not saying it isn’t scriptural, but not having statues, or other idols is also scriptural(Exodus 20:4)

I think you missed posting 291 above where you were given the passages that relate to the Hail Mary, both from Luke.

“Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee” these are the words of the Angel Gabriel when he announced that Mary was to be the Mother ofJesus.

“Blessed are you among women and Blessed is the fruit of your womb” (Jesus) - the words of cousin Elizabeth when Mary went to visit her.

Then we ask Mary to pray for us: “Holy Mary Mother of God pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, amen”

I asked you the question whether you thought the Hail Mary was scriptural because of the way you dismiss the Hail Mary as if it is inconsequential.

Think about that
Cinette

 

[Cinette]

Okay, I think we all agree that Mar’ys role in God’s plan was HUGE!! But, if Jesus sent us an advocate to intercede for us to the Father(John 15:26, 1John 2:1), why do we need others to pray for usYou’ll notice I said need, rather than want! I believe in intercessory prayer, but when I’m praying for myself or others, I can and do go right to the Father! Put it this way; say you wanted to talk to your father(earthly), but your mother said, “well, son, you need to talk to this person, and that person, and so on” Believe me, I do not disrespect or dishonor Mary, I just don’t pray through or to her:thumbsup:

That’s OK - you don’t have to but don’t belittle those who choose to.

That’s all!

 

[SteveGC]

Besides, she communicates to us in a very real way and points to her Son always.
Cinette

Yes.

Look at so many portraits, sculptures etc. of our Blessed Mother, especially those found in official Catholic settings (the Vatican, parishes, etc). Almost always she is holding her Son, Jesus - whether as a babe, or as a slain Savior.

Now…look at her eyes. What do you see? She’s rarely, if ever, looking at you. Why? She’s always looking at Her Son. Why?

Because her role is to steer our gaze unto our Lord. She ‘leads’ us to Christ. This is why we “Behold, our Mother”, as Christ told his beloved disciple. We honor her because Christ did. We look to her because she knows her son more intimately than any of us EVER will, and will ALWAYS guide us directly to Him, without so much as an ounce of expected glory for herself.

God Bless

 

[2John1vs3]

"There cannot be you truth and my truth, for this would mean that their is NO TRUTH."
Why after 2000 years…is the Catholic Church still the largest Chrsitian Church on Planet earth?
Does truth matter? can their be your truth and my truth?

Matthew 7:14 “…strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
That suggests that being the “largest denomination” doesn’t make much difference to God.

Does truth matter. Let’s weigh the pronouncements, decrees, bull(s) of popes throughout the centuries against the word of God in the Bible “Every word of God is pure…” Proverbs 30:5. (And for those who say the Catholic church gave us the Bible look here: Psalm 119:89 “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.” [That looks like it was around forever, a lot longer than the church at Rome]) Anyway, consider the fact that popes disagree with their predecessors. Paul VI with the Novus Ordo overthrew Pius V in Quo Primum. John Paul II with his Luminous Mysteries overthrew Paul VI and his decision to not tamper with the rosary after VCII. A pope in the ninth century (if I recall) said that civil marriages were perfectly fine. Now you have to spend six months in pre-Cana to get your wedding blessed by the church. Saint Augustine (admittedly not a pope) asked what he had to do with confessing his sins to another man. By 1215 (much later) Innocent III and one of the Lateran Councils decides that auricular confession to a priest is mandatory. Prior to the Council of Trent, a pope issued a statement to the effect that the subject of predestination was indeterminate and not to be a subject for discussion in the church henceforth. Then the Council of Trent put some curses on those who profess to believe in absolute predestination. The church after investigating Fatima said that it was worthy of belief, but Pope Ratzinger while still “prefect for the congregation of the faith” put his signature to an opinion that the whole thing might have been a figment of overactive childhood imagination from Lucia Dos Santos having been exposed to too many holy cards. John Paul II condemns Liberation Theology but the new “Black Pope”, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, and the real power behind the papacy, says that Liberation Theology deserves another look…it had its wings clipped too soon before it had a chance to soar. ETC, ETC, ETC.
Saint Malachi’s prophecy of the papal dynasty indicates that there’s only one occupant of the Petrine chair left after Benedict XVI. (The consensus of those interested in end-time prophecy (Catholics and Protestants alike) is that the last pope will be an antichrist or THE Antichrist.) (Then too some think “every pope is an antichrist” in that he puts himself in place of the Lord Jesus Christ. Forgive the imperfect Latin translation – and I’m doing it from imperfect memory – but the inscription on the papal tiara says “In the place of the son of god” or “In substitution for the son of god”.)
And then there’s the whole Peter as the rock thing. But look here: Psalm 62:5-7"My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God." (Nothing 'bout Peter there. What Peter said and Who he said it about IS the Rock: the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Son of God IS the Rock.)
Anyway… as a surrogate for Pilate, you ask: “What is truth?”.
Jesus has already answered that for the readers of the Gospel of John. “I am the truth…”
Hmmmm. Nothing about the successor of Peter (if there ever was such a thing) figuring into how Christians are to make a determination of truth. The Holy Spirit guides the church. Men in satin robes and slippers are poor substitutes for God. Christ says “I am with you…”, why look for someone parading around as His substitute?

 

[benedictus2]

A pointless endeavor, since the Church has no power to act on any of their desires.

In fact, more than pointless, it’s harmful. You see how Ella expressed it. Ella is in the “cafeteria line” and refuses to get out. Ella’s solution is that the Church change Her teachings on X,Y, and Z. Then Ella will be satisfied because the Church has conformed to Ella’s idea of how things should be.

It is the other way around. The Church has the Truth. Ella does not. Ella should instead be striving to get out of the cafeteria line by recognizing it is not the Church that is in error and in striving to (1) obey the Church even while not understanding or agreeing and (2) understand, internalize, and embrace what the Church teaches through prayer and study.

Bravo! Short sweet and to the point!:clapping:

What people like Ella don’t get is that they are not the magisterium. They do not get to decide what is right and wrong.

Their stand is nothing more than a modern rendering of Adam and Eve’s stance. That they, not God, will be the moral arbiters of good and evil.

Sheer pride and arrogance. Nothing more than an undying allegiance to the unholy trinity of I, Me and Myself.

 

[benedictus2]

I don’t think the Catholic Church should change anything, on my account. If, in an alternate universe, the Catholic Church had never defined Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, and Papal Infallibility, it would be much easier for me to become Catholic. It is difficult for me to accept the concept that these were always believed, just not yet defined, when they are not and were not believed by the Orthodox. I am also a little concerned about what teachings might be dogmatically defined in the future.

I think the one dogma upon which the Catholic Church stands or falls is Papal Infallibility. For if it can be established that God has indeed preserved the Church from teaching error, then it can be reasonably concluded that all her teachings are correct and thus can be assented to with the will even if our minds fail to grasp their depths and complexities.

And infallibilty is a necessity if we are to believe in the Church at all because we either believe that Christ kept his promise to preserve His Church from the gates or hell and leader Her into all truth, or else Christ lied.

Bible Christians whether they realize it or not give assent to the infallibility of the Church when they hold that the Bible is infallible.

 

[benedictus2]

Catholics dont want “common ground.” They want submission to the Pope

If you truly understand Christ and His doctrines, then you will realize that submission to the Pope is part and parcel of Christian belief.

Otherwise, Christ would not have started His own Church upon Peter.

 

[benedictus2]

That’s sort of a loaded question … I assume the OP means what would it take for me to become Roman Catholic, to which my response is nothing. I’d never leave the Presbyterian church (though I don’t really care to explain why … that’s never a kind conversation so it’s one I avoid).

May I ask why are you Presbyterian?

And if you are a cradle Presbyterian have you ever dug deep into the contentious issues in the Presbyterian - Catholic divide?

Also, have you heard of Scott Hahn?

 

[benedictus2]

The Pope comes up with some pretty clever sayings to try and lend credence to his dogma of the whole world submitting to him. Only one problem. This phrase makes no sense.

Actually, PJM has a very good point.

To simplify, If I say a thing is black and you say it is white and we both claim to know the truth, which of us is really telling the truth.

And who adjudicates?

You will probably say the Bible. But the problem is the Bible cannot adjudicate for itself becuase it is precisely the meaning of the Bible that needs to be discerned.

So you see, it is not that PJM does not make sense, rather that the sense eludes you.

 

[benedictus2]

Believe it or don’t, because you are afforded the opportunity to have a personal:thumbsup:relationship, with the very same God who spoke the universe into existence, you can also confess your sins to Him, and repent, thanking Him for His forgiveness! I for one believe, that Jesus’s death on the Cross forgave all sins, past present and future!!! Psalms 103:10-12, 1John 1:9

And the very same God who afforded you a personal relationship with Him and who spoke the universe into existence, THAT very same God, WILLED, CHOSE, to give the power to forgive sins to his apostles and down the line to his priests.

It is is true that there is nothing stopping you from confessing your sins to God directly. But GOD HIMSELF, IN HIS WISDOM, WILLED that we confess our sins.

And no he has not forgiven you your future sins for you have not repented of them yet. Repentance comes after the commision of the evil deed, not before.

 

[w_stewart]

Matthew 7:14 “…strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
That suggests that being the “largest denomination” doesn’t make much difference to God.

Does truth matter. Let’s weigh the pronouncements, decrees, bull(s) of popes throughout the centuries against the word of God in the Bible “Every word of God is pure…” Proverbs 30:5. (And for those who say the Catholic church gave us the Bible look here: Psalm 119:89 “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.” [That looks like it was around forever, a lot longer than the church at Rome]) Anyway, consider the fact that popes disagree with their predecessors. Paul VI with the Novus Ordo overthrew Pius V in Quo Primum. John Paul II with his Luminous Mysteries overthrew Paul VI and his decision to not tamper with the rosary after VCII. A pope in the ninth century (if I recall) said that civil marriages were perfectly fine. Now you have to spend six months in pre-Cana to get your wedding blessed by the church. Saint Augustine (admittedly not a pope) asked what he had to do with confessing his sins to another man. By 1215 (much later) Innocent III and one of the Lateran Councils decides that auricular confession to a priest is mandatory. Prior to the Council of Trent, a pope issued a statement to the effect that the subject of predestination was indeterminate and not to be a subject for discussion in the church henceforth. Then the Council of Trent put some curses on those who profess to believe in absolute predestination. The church after investigating Fatima said that it was worthy of belief, but Pope Ratzinger while still “prefect for the congregation of the faith” put his signature to an opinion that the whole thing might have been a figment of overactive childhood imagination from Lucia Dos Santos having been exposed to too many holy cards. John Paul II condemns Liberation Theology but the new “Black Pope”, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, and the real power behind the papacy, says that Liberation Theology deserves another look…it had its wings clipped too soon before it had a chance to soar. ETC, ETC, ETC.
Saint Malachi’s prophecy of the papal dynasty indicates that there’s only one occupant of the Petrine chair left after Benedict XVI. (The consensus of those interested in end-time prophecy (Catholics and Protestants alike) is that the last pope will be an antichrist or THE Antichrist.) (Then too some think “every pope is an antichrist” in that he puts himself in place of the Lord Jesus Christ. Forgive the imperfect Latin translation – and I’m doing it from imperfect memory – but the inscription on the papal tiara says “In the place of the son of god” or “In substitution for the son of god”.)
And then there’s the whole Peter as the rock thing. But look here: Psalm 62:5-7"My soul, wait thou only upon God; for my expectation is from him. He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be moved. In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God." (Nothing 'bout Peter there. What Peter said and Who he said it about IS the Rock: the Lord Jesus Christ IS the Son of God IS the Rock.)
Anyway… as a surrogate for Pilate, you ask: “What is truth?”.
Jesus has already answered that for the readers of the Gospel of John. “I am the truth…”
Hmmmm. Nothing about the successor of Peter (if there ever was such a thing) figuring into how Christians are to make a determination of truth. The Holy Spirit guides the church. Men in satin robes and slippers are poor substitutes for God. Christ says “I am with you…”, why look for someone parading around as His substitute?

I have questions for you to answer.

First:

Is it your position that the Church changed some of her teachings? Teachings here refer to official doctrines of the Catholic Church.

Second:

Did the Popes you mentioned change any of the Catholic doctrines?

 

[2John1vs3]

…the problem is the Bible cannot adjudicate for itself because it is precisely the meaning of the Bible that needs to be discerned.
What IS the Bible?
It is the eternal Word of God. Jesus is that word made flesh.
Listen to Pastor Nelson Turner’s sermon “What the Bible SAYS About Itself” available for free download at:
(Anti-Catholic site link removed)
No adjudication on biblical meaning is really necessary in the same sense that matters of “natural law” can’t be debated in denial of their clear meaning. Everyone “knows” abortion is murder. God wrote that into our souls when He created us. Similarly, we know what His words mean, if He has chosen us to know. And the pope or the bishops around him don’t know any better than any elect person just what God’s word says. God puts belief into us; “faith is a gift”. What we believe is not from some committee in Rome.
Psalm 119:89 “For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.”
Proverbs 30:5 “Every word of God is pure…”

 

[benedictus2]

these sort of rules so miss the point it’s unfathomable to think any denomination could have ever pulled these ideas from scripture or the teaching of any apostle. Any true Christian should be holy (we’re sealed with the Holy Spirit after all) … but that doesn’t mean ascribing to some laundry list of man made rules.

Catholics tend to focus on rituals they have promulgated over the centuries i.e. don’t eat meat on Friday’s, say your rosary, venerate people they presume to be saints, sin away but make sure you hit confession on Saturday, and so on.

This post exposes an ignorance of what these rituals are all about. It is like you are mouthing someone elses line without having found out for yourself what the rosary, veneration of saints, confession and not eating meat on Friday is all about.

But to be able to even begin to comprehend what these “rituals” are all about, one needs a truly open heart and mind. Until you have those two the meanings behind this will elude you.

As a Presbyterian (Orthodox or PCA) we focus on actual holiness. We shun adultery, drunkardness, homosexuality, anger, use of foul language, pornography, etc. I attended a Catholic college and most of the priests there were drunks, grossly overweight (gluttons), etc. something the PCA or OPC would never tolerate.

I bet you don’t even see the flaw in your reasoning here.

The divide between Presbyterian and Catholic faith is doctrine not practice. All Christians sin. That is a simple matter of fact.

The question is not whether we preach what we practice but rather whether what we prieach is the Truth that is Christ. Only the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth for this is the Church that Christ founded on Peter. Christ did not promise that his people will all be free from sin. Rather, He promised that His Church will be lead into all truth and that the gates of hell will not prevail. And neither did He promise that he will stop the devil from giving it a mighty good try. But he promises to be with her until the end of the world. That is why the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth.

I suggest you read Scott Hahn. He was a die hard presbysterian before he converted. Read Rome Sweet Home. This way you can get it straight out of an ex-presbyterian’s mouth. He will be speaking your lingo.

 

[benedictus2]

Yes. Because that would imply Jesus gives special treatment. If I pray to GOD then by your implication HE may not listen to me but if Mary intercedes then suddenly I have leverage. Using the wedding at Cana is so typical of taking 1 verse of scripture and twisting it to mean something universal.

Error 1. The Church has never ever said, that if we do not go through Mary, God will not listen to us. The Catholics from pray novenas (nine day prayers) to the Holy Spirit, to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, to the Holy Infant, etc… All direct prayers to God.

Error 2. Using the verse at Cana is not typical of us Catholics using 1 verse and claiming it to be universal because in actual fact it is protestants who do to that a lot, grabbing one verse and claiming that the entire Bbile speaks the same.

If you read the wedding at Cana meditatively you will notice that when Jesus replied V4: “Woman, how does your concern affect me? My hour has not yet come”, immediately in Verse 5: " His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever he tells you.”

There was no haggling, no discussing the finer point or should He or should He not help out.

She knew that her Son will do her request.

And what is most striking about this is that Jesus has already told her my hour has not yet come. So when you look at it, Mary was able to sway Him to perform a miracle outside of God’s pre-ordained hour.

Does this mean she is trumping the Lord in any way. No. It simply means that God’s regard for her is so high (she is full of grace) which is why God ALLOWED her to sway Him. In the end, it is still God’s will because God WILLED to work the miracle in this way.

Christ did not need Mary to point out that the wine had run out. He knew this better than her. But HE WILLED that it should play out like that to show us that His mother’s pleadings carry weight with him.

In simpler terms, why do you pray for your friends or anyone at all. Isn’t their prayer for themselves enough?

Why don’t we see anyone in scripture asking a deceased Christian for intercession?? Stephen and James were killed for their faith among many others. We read constantly that the Apostles prayed to GOD but we never see any of them say Stephen please pray for us, or James please pray for us. We see them telling each other who are alive to intercede in prayer for one another. Actually please show me an ECF that wrote that they prayed for Mary’s intercession.

But this only exposes your limited view of salvation. You regard those dead in body as truly dead. The deceased, Christians if they were truly Christians, are more alive in Christ now than we are. They are closer to God than we are right now. If you can pray for your friends, well these saints who have lived virtous lives can certainly pray for us.

It says in Proverbs 15:29 "The LORD is far from the wicked, but the prayer of the just he hears. "

 

[Thorwald]

JL: I agree no one has the right to make up traditions of men and call them a doctrine of God. A good example, of a tradition of men, made a doctrine of God would be Sola Scriptura invented about 1521. There is a great deal of difference between traditions of men and those APOSTOLIC TRADITIONS, delivered once for all to the saints both ORAL AND WRITTEN SCRIPTURE. If that same Holy Spirit by the church can faithfully preserve the written tradition, without distortion, then the same Holy Spirit can certainly by the same church preserve that APOSTOLIC ORAL TRADITION, without distortion, that same Holy Spirit acts thru, and is the origin of both the church and scripture.

2 THES 2:14 Whereunto he called you by OUR GOSPEL, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, BREATHREN, STAND FAST, and HOLD THE TRADITIONS which ye have been TAUGHT, WHETHER **BY WORD OR **our EPISTLE.]. [According to Paul the gospel is BOTH ORAL and WRITEN

1TIM 6: Timothy, KEEP THAT which is COMMITTED TO THY TRUST, avoiding profane and vain babblings,

PHILIP 4:9 THOSE THINGS, which YE HAVE both **LEARNED

, and RECEIVE, and HEARD, and **SEEN IN ME, DO **

1 THES 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye RECEIVED the WORD OF GOD which ye **HEARD **of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is IN TRUTH, the WORD OF GOD, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

Jn 14: 26: But the Comforter, which is THE HOLY GHOST, whom the Father will send in my name, he SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, WHATSOEVER I have SAID UNTO YOU.

2TIM 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. 2 And the things that thou hast HEARD OF ME among many witnesses, the same COMMIT thou TO FAITHFUL MEN, who shall be **ABLE TO TEACH **OTHERS also.

2 TIM 1:13 HOLD FAST the form of SOUND WORDS, which thou hast HEARD of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was COMMITTED unto thee **KEEP BY THE HOLY GHOST **which dwelleth IN US.

2 TIM 1:6 …stir up the GIFT OF GOD **IN YOU BY **the PUTTING ON OF MY HANDS 7 God has given us **THE SPIRIT OF POWER ** [All baptized receive the Holy Spirit and whatever gift the Holy Spirit may choose to give. Being ordained Timothy received the gift of the Holy Spirit by laying on of hands, (holy orders, in apostolic succession.) and the gifts that come with ordination. It is thru the Holy Spirit oral apostolic tradition is discerned, by the church, as opposed to a tradition of men.] 1Tm 3:15 As the pillar and ground of truth the church’s testimony is of no less value than scripture, because the Holy Spirit is the origin of both and active in both, as the council of Jerusalem wrote to the churches, Act15:28 For it seemed GOOD TO THE HOLY GHOST AND TO US, other scriptures say, 1Jn 4:6 We are of God Whoever knows God LISTENS TO US and he who is not of God DOES NOT LISTTEN TO US. BY THIS WE KNOW the spirit of TRUTH AND the spirit of ERROR LK 10:16 He that HEARETH YOU HEARETH ME Mt 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to HEAR THE CHURCH, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Jn15:20…if they have kept MY SAYING they will KEEP YOURS ALSO Jn17:20 Neither pray I for THESE alone but for THEM which shall believe on me THROUGH THEIR WORD. [Apostolic Tradition is discerned with the help and guidence of the Holy Spirit, were scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit. The canon of the NT and OT do not give a list, of which books are inspiried, those books were discerned thru the guidence of the Holy Spirit by the Church, using Apostolic Traditions. Apostolic Traditions and Scripture must be in agreement.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your regurgitation of scripture. I already have this in my KJV Bible, but thank you for providing me with it again (just in case I didn’t have it). Now, regurgitate the scripture that requires us to, say ‘Hail Maries’; use rosaries; make statues; make 'man-made saints and pray to them; baptize infants that do not have a clue what is going on; recognize the Catholic Church as the one and only true Church; put parameters on God in such a way, that He can only choose a R.C. in order to provide wisdom unto the rest of mankind; accept only a R.C. as being in a position to ‘be found worthy’; etc.

Thorwald Johansen

 

[w_stewart]

Thank you for your regurgitation of scripture. I already have this in my KJV Bible, but thank you for providing me with it again (just in case I didn’t have it). Now, regurgitate the scripture that requires us to, say ‘Hail Maries’; use rosaries; make statues; make 'man-made saints and pray to them; baptize infants that do not have a clue what is going on; recognize the Catholic Church as the one and only true Church; put parameters on God in such a way, that He can only choose a R.C. in order to provide wisdom unto the rest of mankind; accept only a R.C. as being in a position to ‘be found worthy’; etc.

Thorwald Johansen

No need to parade the verses here. If you know that the Catholic Church is the society founded by Christ, then you know that this society cannot teach or introduce evil doctrines as Jesus promised that he will always abide by His Church even until the consummation of the world. Not only that. He also promised to send the Holy Spirit to protect the Church from error. St. Paul also said in one of his letters that the Church founded by Christ is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

If the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, then this Church is incapable of error. If she is incapable of errors, then all her teachings, including those you enumerated, are also of God’s. Did not Jesus also say that “whatever you shall loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven, and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”?