What truths must you hold to be considered a Protestant?

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Great answer! 👍

Scott,
I thought that Anglicans were less tied to the practice of sola scriptura than say Lutherans?

Jon
Article VI of the 39 articles seems rather clear. I won’t quote it here in it’s entirety, but I’d Google it.
 
You totally mis-read my statement. I’m simply saying that most of the Protestant sects cannot AGREE on a static, rock solid truth theologically speaking. I do not doubt your total, passionate belief in Lutheran doctrine as being THE truth. I would never assume to say you are a relativist. Nothing I’ve read of you has ever pointed in that direction, trust me :p…you’re far too convicted, impassioned, and dogmatic for me to assume such folly about you. And I believe that many Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists, and other Protestants are no doubt convicted that they know the whole truth and certainly don’t mean to be relativists by any stretch. I’m simply saying that if I sit you down with a Calvinist, a Methodist, an Anglican, and some other Protestants, chances are extremely high you guys will not agree on much of anything. Luther’s pounding his fists and barking at Zwingli about the Eucharist showed how they agreed on much until the Eucharist came along. There was bad blood there. Protestants in their own churches believe they have the entirety of truth, of course, never implied otherwise. But as a whole, Protestantism is so wide-open, diverse, vast, and chaotic that it’s about impossible to believe you all could come to agreement about THE total truth about Scripture, church polity, and theology any day of the week. Does that make sense? Protestantism is a big tent, man! Don’t worry, I never mistook you for a Calvnist or Anglican LOL…As carefully, precisely, and voluminously as you enumerate your beliefs and theology, Matt, I know exactly where you stand! 🙂
While I share your concerns here, gurney and understand where you are coming from, it’s only an assumption that the different Protestant groups do not believe there is one truth that is revealed by Scripture. Many Protestants, myself included, do not believe there are several thousands truths that are revealed in Scripture and see those other sects being just as wrong as the Catholic Church sees them. Since I believe that the Lutheran confessions are the true interpretation of Scripture, it would necessitate that I don’t believe the Reformed, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist et al. interpretations of Scripture are correct.
 
Hi Jon,
Depends on which Anglicans we’re talking about. Good grief, I’m starting to talk like GKC! 😛 If you’re hanging out with Anglo-Catholics, the 39 Articles are great kindling for the fire place. If you’re hanging out with Evangelical Anglicans, which is mostly what ACNA and REC are made up of, the 39 Articles, article VI is the most obvious statement of sola scriptura in the Anglican ethos really, as another poster points out.

My experience as an Anglican was that Scripture was the beginning and end of almost everything, it informed everything, and the councils and traditions took a big back seat. I was in a parish that was more broad church, a little vangie and a little catholic. Like I said, depends on which ‘brand’ of Anglicanism we’re talking about…

Have you ever read JI Packer or John Stott? Try reading those guys and you’ll feel more evangelical and sola scripturaed up than any Lutheran in the world! LOL It’s hard to find one shread of ‘catholicism’ in their writings or mindset. I have read both and felt their theology to be more of a Calvinist polity than anything.
Scott,
I thought that Anglicans were less tied to the practice of sola scriptura than say Lutherans?

Jon
 
You totally mis-read my statement. I’m simply saying that most of the Protestant sects cannot AGREE on a static, rock solid truth theologically speaking. I do not doubt your total, passionate belief in Lutheran doctrine as being THE truth. I would never assume to say you are a relativist. Nothing I’ve read of you has ever pointed in that direction, trust me …you’re far too convicted, impassioned, and dogmatic for me to assume such folly about you. And I believe that many Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists, and other Protestants are no doubt convicted that they know the whole truth and certainly don’t mean to be relativists by any stretch. I’m simply saying that if I sit you down with a Calvinist, a Methodist, an Anglican, and some other Protestants, chances are extremely high you guys will not agree on much of anything. Luther’s pounding his fists and barking at Zwingli about the Eucharist showed how they agreed on much until the Eucharist came along. There was bad blood there. Protestants in their own churches believe they have the entirety of truth, of course, never implied otherwise. But as a whole, Protestantism is so wide-open, diverse, vast, and chaotic that it’s about impossible to believe you all could come to agreement about THE total truth about Scripture, church polity, and theology any day of the week. Does that make sense? Protestantism is a big tent, man! Don’t worry, I never mistook you for a Calvnist or Anglican LOL…As carefully, precisely, and voluminously as you enumerate your beliefs and theology, Matt, I know exactly where you stand!
I know very few Protestants who hold to their denomination in the same way that some Catholics and Orthodox hold to their Churches (EENS). I think this is because the understanding of Grace alone, Faith alone, and Christ alone necessarily exclude a Church being the “gate” to salvation. I think many Protestants would say Outside of Christ, there is no Salvation, (a statement I agree with).

I don’t think Luther had all the answers, and he was flat-out wrong on several occasions. However I think the Augsburg Confession is a proper summation of Christian Doctrine because it is from Scripture (alone). However I would regard anyone who believes the truths of the Nicene Creed as Christian.
 
You totally mis-read my statement. I’m simply saying that most of the Protestant sects cannot AGREE on a static, rock solid truth theologically speaking. I do not doubt your total, passionate belief in Lutheran doctrine as being THE truth. I would never assume to say you are a relativist. Nothing I’ve read of you has ever pointed in that direction, trust me :p…you’re far too convicted, impassioned, and dogmatic for me to assume such folly about you. And I believe that many Lutherans, Calvinists, Methodists, and other Protestants are no doubt convicted that they know the whole truth and certainly don’t mean to be relativists by any stretch. I’m simply saying that if I sit you down with a Calvinist, a Methodist, an Anglican, and some other Protestants, chances are extremely high you guys will not agree on much of anything. Luther’s pounding his fists and barking at Zwingli about the Eucharist showed how they agreed on much until the Eucharist came along. There was bad blood there. Protestants in their own churches believe they have the entirety of truth, of course, never implied otherwise. But as a whole, Protestantism is so wide-open, diverse, vast, and chaotic that it’s about impossible to believe you all could come to agreement about THE total truth about Scripture, church polity, and theology any day of the week. Does that make sense? Protestantism is a big tent, man! Don’t worry, I never mistook you for a Calvnist or Anglican LOL…As carefully, precisely, and voluminously as you enumerate your beliefs and theology, Matt, I know exactly where you stand! 🙂
LOL gurney. I apologize if I mistook what your point in that way. It probably comes from a kneejerk reaction to the oft repeated argument here that “Protestants MUST believe the Holy Spirit is confused and leads people into thousands of different truths,” when I’ve never seen a single Protestant argue such an absurd thing.
 
The word “Protestant” isn’t a very useful one as an identifier anyways, which is why very few protestants I’ve known will identify themselves as such. It’s more of a negative defintion than a positive one. The very roots of the word “protest-ant” demonstrate that it is a word born of convenience and necessity to be able to lump all the christians of the world who reject the catholic/orthodox teachings of christianity.

Really has anyone ever answered “protestant” when you ask them what their faith is? I doubt it. They tend to answer “christian,” which probably just changes the word of the OP’s question… 😉

I think most christians who are protestant would define that in a manner pretty similar to the Apostles Creed, then quickly add on “without all the catholic nonsense” at the end! 😉
 
The word “Protestant” isn’t a very useful one as an identifier anyways, which is why very few protestants I’ve known will identify themselves as such. It’s more of a negative defintion than a positive one. The very roots of the word “protest-ant” demonstrate that it is a word born of convenience and necessity to be able to lump all the christians of the world who reject the catholic/orthodox teachings of christianity.
That and the moniker is historically inaccurate, anyway. The term Protestant does not mean to protest the Catholic Church, nor did it refer to a religious tradition. It had more to do with imperial politics in Germany.
 
Protestants, what truths must you hold to be considered one of you?
It’s changed over time. It’s probably gotten a little too broad.
Can you believe in the Immaculate Conception and still be a Protestant?
You can, but I wouldn’t.
All of the 5 solas?
Generally, yes. There’s a sense in which they’re all tied together, some more closely than others. Sola Fide and Sola Gratia, for example, kind of have to be taken together as a package deal.
Be confessional and hold to the Augsburg Confession as well or is that non-essential?
That’s more specific to Lutherans. Most of its content is pretty essential, though.
I ask this because Catholics are sometimes told that they have less freedom of thought in comparison to the Protestant churches.
Some people say that.
I’m curious about the intellectual freedom in the Protestant realm, if there’s some overarching dogma/doctrine that unites everybody together.
There is an Evangelical Manifesto that was put together fairly recently. It’s not the kind of authoritative thing that Catholic leadership puts out there, though, and there’s been quite a bit of controversy concerning the circumstances under which people can call themselves Evangelicals. There’s some talk of opening it up to Catholics. There’s also talk of closing some loopholes that allow for certain heretical doctrines. (I’m talking about “heresy” in the sense of “actual heresy,” not in the sense of "everything non-Catholic).

The Evangelical Manifesto can be read…here. anevangelicalmanifesto.com/docs/Evangelical_Manifesto.pdf

There are some documents that unite certain groups of Protestants, like the Augsburg Confession that you brought up earlier. I bring up the Evangelical Manifesto because it’s a good example of something that’s inter-denominational that covers a significant portion of the Protestant spectrum while excluding people who call themselves Protestants but also hold to a liberal theology that does things like denying the deity of Christ, the Trinity, divine inspiration of God’s Word, etc.

As for “intellectual freedom,” there’s a book called “The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind” by Mark Noll. It doesn’t exactly praise the intellectual freedom of Evangelicals over the course of the last few centuries. It’s really more of a rebuke. I wouldn’t go as far as calling it “scathing,” but it’s certainly not a pat on the back. It’s probably in the top 5 among the most influential and important books of the last century, and it happens to deal with this topic in a pretty direct way. Unfortunately, it’s not available online. It mainly deals with the relationship between the theological mindset of Evangelicalism and how that should interact with intellectual pursuits, and then it relates the ways in which Evangelicals in America haven’t succeeded in doing this. This book was well received, though, and we’re working on it.

Next time you’re hanging out at a bookstore, maybe you can find it and flip through it. Btw, Mark Noll is currently a professor at Notre Dame. He teaches history to people who are going for their doctorates. So next time you’re hanging out at Notre Dame, maybe you can schedule a meeting with him. 😃

This is the preview from Google Books. books.google.com/books?id=J2fmHHqc-vIC&dq=google+books+mark+noll+scandal+of+the+evangelical+mind&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=en&ei=8tGzS8r4EozUMo7T4PMJ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=&f=false

You can actually…wow, you might not have to hang out at a bookstore after all. I think you can get all you need right there. Hooray for Google Books!
I ask this question out of curiosity so that I can see the world better from your point of view.
It sometimes depends on which Protestant you ask, but this is some of the material that I think of as significant.

Edit about the word “Protestant”- it’s a word whose meaning has changed in the course of the evolution of the English language. Historically, “to protest” meant “to declare.” Some of Luther’s predecessors- men who did not break from the Catholic Church in any way- used it in the same way Luther did. They would say “This I protest” in order to communicate that they were asserting a belief. Its original intent was not to say “This is what I am against,” but just the opposite- “This is what I profess to be true.” Except they would say “This is what I protest to be true.”

This is one of the first things that’s addressed in the Evangelical Manifesto- although it’s not really done in the process of upholding the use of the term. It’s become a little bit of a dinosaur. Its original intent has been almost entirely divorced from its current meaning. Again, it’s explained more in-depth in the Manifesto.
 
Sure. It largely comes down to the presupposition that is used. For Lutherans, whatever does not contradict the Scriptures or the confessions is within the conscience of the individual believer to either accept or reject. For example, I lean toward the idea of Mary’s perpetual virginity. Since this is neither affirmed or denied by the Lutheran confessions and does not explicitly contradict Scripture, I am free to believe that she remained a virgin and still be a member in good standing of a Lutheran congregation.

For Reformed denominations, they operate by a reverse standard. Whatever is not affirmed by Scripture or the Reformed confessions is NOT okay to believe in. A Reformed Christian could not hold to Mary’s perpetual virginity since it is not affirmed explicitly by Scripture or the Reformed confessions.
That’s quite interesting, seeing how each group has different standards for its members. How much do the historical creeds (Nicene and Apostle) play into an individual’s conscience? From my understanding that these creeds are affirmed by Scripture but are not apart of the sole rule of faith, so why are the Book of Concord or historical creeds neccessary for a Lutheran?
I think gurney’s observation is correct. While Lutherans and Reformed may disagree as to how God justifies the sinner (for the Reformed it is by “conversion,” for Lutherans by baptism), we both agree that justification is through faith alone and involves Christ’s righteousness imputed to the sinner and the sins of the believer imputed to Christ.

As far as sola Scriptura goes, while most Protestants adhere to it, it is not a doctrine, but a practice. I would say it’s less central to being Protestant, since many groups labeled Protestant don’t quite hold to it. Many Pentecostals, for example, believe in direct revelation from the Spirit through sign gifts, like tongues. This would deny sola Scriptura.
To you, what is the difference between a doctrine and a practice? From the Catholic perspective, what believe shapes what we do. Or do you mean Sola Scripture is more in line with how the Church views celibacy?

Such great comments, guys! More later…
 
That’s quite interesting, seeing how each group has different standards for its members. How much do the historical creeds (Nicene and Apostle) play into an individual’s conscience? From my understanding that these creeds are affirmed by Scripture but are not apart of the sole rule of faith, so why are the Book of Concord or historical creeds neccessary for a Lutheran?
The three major ecumenical creeds of the Western church are adopted into the Book of Concord as one of our confessions of faith. The Book of Concord is divided into the Ecumenical Creeds, the Small Catechism, the Large Catechism, the Augsburg Confession of Faith, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope, the Smalcald Articles, and the Formula of Concord. We believe each of these are 100% correct in their content because they accurately reflect/summarize the teachings of Scripture. Therefore, to oppose what they teach is to oppose what Scripture teaches.

We would call our confessions a rule of faith, in that, our interpretions of Scripture must not go beyond the boundary markers that have been established, especially in the case of the ecumenical creeds.
To you, what is the difference between a doctrine and a practice? From the Catholic perspective, what believe shapes what we do. Or do you mean Sola Scripture is more in line with how the Church views celibacy?
Practices are shaped by doctrine, similar to what you stated. It is a doctrine of the faith that the teachings of the prophets and apostles are the infallible, inerrant revelation from God. What separates Protestants and Catholics here, then, is that we believe Scripture is the only source of those teachings that the Church possesses today. In light of this doctrine, then, the practice of sola Scriptura (that all the teachings of the church must conform to Scripture) is established.
 
The only belief needed for full-fledged Protestantism is a cryptic profession of faith in the Falun Gong movement. Speak the magic words, and all sorts of realms and planes of existence will be yours! Let the Gong of Failure ring out across the dimensions as we levitate our way through the ether! 😃
 
I can imagine Seinfeld saying in that high-pitched voice: “what’s the deal with the gong!” George replies, “gotta love the gong!” and Kramer says, “oh yeah…I’m definitely down with the gong!” George: “I’m all OVER the gong, baby!” Elaine: “what’s not to love with the falun gong!? Who doesn’t like the gong!?”
The only belief needed for full-fledged Protestantism is a cryptic profession of faith in the Falun Gong movement. Speak the magic words, and all sorts of realms and planes of existence will be yours! Let the Gong of Failure ring out across the dimensions as we levitate our way through the ether! 😃
 
I can imagine Seinfeld saying in that high-pitched voice: “what’s the deal with the gong!” George replies, “gotta love the gong!” and Kramer says, “oh yeah…I’m definitely down with the gong!” George: “I’m all OVER the gong, baby!” Elaine: “what’s not to love with the falun gong!? Who doesn’t like the gong!?”
“Giddyup!”

Haha I hope all will excuse my attempted derailing of this very good thread. 😃 I returned home from the best Maundy Thursday service I have ever attended (gotta love an oldschool Sung Mass), only to log on and find extensive Gong activity (all of which has now been modded). I guess the extreme spiritual mood swing pushed me a little bit over the goofiness edge haha. We now return to your regularly scheduled Protestantism.
 
Yep, and I was a fellow conspirator in the derailment. A thousand pardons…As the control voice used to say on the Outer Limits:

we now return control of your television set to you…to protestantism…and we will meet again next week at this same scheduled time to take you to…the Outer Limits!
“Giddyup!”

Haha I hope all will excuse my attempted derailing of this very good thread. 😃 I returned home from the best Maundy Thursday service I have ever attended (gotta love an oldschool Sung Mass), only to log on and find extensive Gong activity (all of which has now been modded). I guess the extreme spiritual mood swing pushed me a little bit over the goofiness edge haha. We now return to your regularly scheduled Protestantism.
 
The only belief needed for full-fledged Protestantism is a cryptic profession of faith in the Falun Gong movement. Speak the magic words, and all sorts of realms and planes of existence will be yours! Let the Gong of Failure ring out across the dimensions as we levitate our way through the ether! 😃
I had some Falun Gong at the Chinese restaurant just this past Wednesday. I really recommend it with some soy sauce and hot mustard. Yummy.
 
I went to Panda Express (do you guys have Panda in the midwest and eastcoast? LOL) and had the best spicy kung pao falun gong you’ve ever had and chased it down with some mushu pork and egg foo yung.

Eating too much falun gong can create some Big Trouble in Little China too! Jack Burton style!
I had some Falun Gong at the Chinese restaurant just this past Wednesday. I really recommend it with some soy sauce and hot mustard. Yummy.
 
I went to Panda Express (do you guys have Panda in the midwest and eastcoast? LOL) and had the best spicy kung pao falun gong you’ve ever had and chased it down with some mushu pork and egg foo yung.

Eating too much falun gong can create some Big Trouble in Little China too! Jack Burton style!
Oh yeah… Beijing beef, in some corners of the universe, is a minor deity!
 
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