What value is there in faith?

[liquidpele]

This is a very good question. Why does God put us in a position where “faith” is so important and necessary> Why not take away our faith by showing us all we need to see and know so that we no longer have to believe anymore? To summarize - “What’s the big deal about faith”?

Faith definitely is a “big deal” in the Scriptures (Old and New Testament) … It is one of the central themes of Scripture … so to answer this question it is necessary to go to the Scripture and what it tells us about Faith and why it is important TO GOD. Faith is not only important to God , but is important for us as well.

The Documents of Vatican II have told us that we can know that God exists with certainty “by the light of natural reason”. So to acknowledge that God exists is not necessarily an act of faith for some … since to know with certiftude is no longer faith … but an acknowledgment of reality … like acknowledging that gravity exists … I don’t have to have faith in gravity because I know it is a fact … and facts do not require belief. The same can be said of knowing that “God exists”. That certainty can be known “by the light of natural reason” according to the Documents of Vatican II. In conclusion, faith is much much much more than acknowledging that God exists. Faith pleases God. That is what I would say in a nutshell. Faith is Trust in God. Faith is a relationship of love with God … to honor and respect God for who He is … and His Goodness to us in all His gifts …

I want to think more about this question about why faith is such a big deal and why God has permitted the human condition in its current state of affairs… in a condition that requires faith to keep our compass pointing north … to guide our steps and actions … so faith is not just about accepting that “God exists” … but loving Him, honoring Him, obeying Him out of true “fear of the Lord” - a person who wants nothing more than to love God and do what is pleasing to God … that requires Faith … and Faith is what leads us to love God … the most important thing is to love God if one stops to really think about that - because to love God is our greatest Good.

I would argue that faith an love are entirely separate. I can love a sibling that I have no faith in to pay back a loan or hold down a job. I can have faith in a lawyer that will win my case without loving him. I think you are unnecessarily binding the two in order to account for the necessity of faith as claimed by some.

You said “Faith pleases God. That is what I would say in a nutshell”… why does God need to be pleased in the first place? It seems a bit silly that God needs to be pleased… smacks of offerings to heathen Gods except the offering is your acceptance of it’s existence instead of a virgin.

 

[fhansen]

You said “Faith pleases God. That is what I would say in a nutshell”… why does God need to be pleased in the first place? It seems a bit silly that God needs to be pleased… smacks of offerings to heathen Gods except the offering is your acceptance of it’s existence instead of a virgin.

To say that faith pleases God is to say that faith in God is* just*-that God knows what is right and good-what is right for us-and, like a good parent, is pleased when we do the right thing. Taking this a step further, God knows what makes a human being happy and the purpose of the Catholic faith is only fulfilled in mans complete happiness.

By Adam & Eves first sin, man was separated from God because by rejecting His authority they rejected God *as *God. Man no longer knew Him let alone had faith in Him, let alone loved Him. This constitutes a disordered state of affairs in creation. It’s not natural for man to not know, trust in, and love God and yet that’s the situation we all find ourselves in here in this world-and the situation our faith is meant to reconcile. All evil-and unhappiness, BTW-comes first of all from not recognizing God as God.

 

[Betterave]

I would argue that faith an love are entirely separate. I can love a sibling that I have no faith in to pay back a loan or hold down a job. I can have faith in a lawyer that will win my case without loving him. I think you are unnecessarily binding the two in order to account for the necessity of faith as claimed by some.

You said “Faith pleases God. That is what I would say in a nutshell”… why does God need to be pleased in the first place? It seems a bit silly that God needs to be pleased… smacks of offerings to heathen Gods except the offering is your acceptance of it’s existence instead of a virgin.

Interesting take. Faith and love as unrelated. Obviously you can do this in the examples you listed, but are those examples relevant to the case in question? Why should they be?

In any case, to your second objection, I think fhansen has quite a good answer. To expand/clarify a little (not that I’m an expert on the subject): Aquinas considers religion to be a moral virtue, i.e., a virtue that is accessible by natural reason, without the special aid of grace. So what is this virtue? It is that virtue by which we recognize and offer homage to God by acts of worship. Obviously the kind of offering that we offer to God matters (this is a moral virtue we’re talking about) and so virgins are not a fitting offering to God. Faith, on the other hand, would be much better (certainly the right starting point), provided of course it is the right kind of faith, e.g., not a faith that in effect becomes a substitute for our intellects (this would be an affront to God as our creator and as the giver of intelligence). The virtuousness of offering worship to God is not due to God’ s being vain; it is virtuous because God is worthy of worship. Those who possess the virtue recognize that God is great and that justice demands the admiration of greatness (similar to the way someone who knows about painting cannot help admiring a great painter). It is part of recognizing (and embracing, with joy) reality and that’s what faith, properly understood, is supposed to be too.

p.s. I do care about what you believe in private, I think it matters, and I don’t mind you making false or ignorant claims to me, I just hope you are able to listen when those claims are called into question.

 

[tonyrey]

That is what I would say in a nutshell"… why does God need to be pleased in the first place? It seems a bit silly that God needs to be pleased… smacks of offerings to heathen Gods except the offering is your acceptance of its existence instead of a virgin.

God does not **need **to be pleased by human beings or any other creature. But God is not a machine. God is personal and being personal implies the capacity for love and joy. God did not need to create us but by creating us with free will He has made Himself vulnerable to indifference and rejection. Do you think He is totally unaffected by ingratitude and hatred? Do you think He is not moved by all the unnecessary pain and suffering in the world? He is not the remote God of deism who creates the universe and takes no further part or interest in what happens. Jesus came into the world to show us that God is a loving Father who shares in our suffering and grief. He died to show us that we cannot avoid suffering because self-sacrifice is the price of love and that when we are tempted to despair, as He was on the Cross, we must have faith and trust in God’s goodness, wisdom and power.

** Faith is not just a matter of belief but the dedication and commitment of our whole being. Faith**, hope and love are all aspects of our unity with another person.They are inextricably related. You cannot love a person deeply without **faith **and hope. To love perfectly is to identify yourself totally with the one you love and become virtually one person. We cannot imagine how God can love infinitesimal specks of Creation like us but the fact that He has given us the capacity for love proves there is joy in heaven when we respond to His love. And when a sinner repents the joy in heaven of which Jesus spoke does not exclude God Himself…

 

[Ivypie]

Hi, I am a disabled woman who has a very hard time finding work because of my disabilities. I don’t receive enough money from disability to meet my minimal monthly expenses. I have Lupus, Chron’s, arthritis, bi-polar disorder, social anxiety disorder, chronic venous insufficiency, IBS, asthma & allergies, sleep apnea, restless legs syndrome, kidney function trouble, scoliosis, and other physical problems beside, and am on about 10 prescription medications a day. I have been having to do without some of my medications because I do not have the money for them. I cannot afford the $10.00 co-pay for counseling, so I have been having to do without counseling. I live in a very small trailor, am a homebody, and live a very simple life. I pray a lot. I don’t ask for much, but bills have to be paid. I’ve been going to the food pantry to get food to help me out, and I received some pet food from caring strangers this week. It is not easy to have to beg for help. I wish I was healthy and didn’t have all these medical problems and wouldn’t have to ask for help. I am desperate because I really need some caring soul out there who has compassion and empathy to help me. My Lupus and medical problems will not go away. I have no family. I feel helpless right now. I have no savings, live in this 550 sq.ft. trailor, and live with my medical problems every day. I keep praying to God to please bless me with a miracle. If any one wants to help me, I will be very grateful. I know that when someone does something good, it comes back to them. I hope someday I am in a position where I can help someone in need. I hope & pray that I am blessed soon financially. I can show proof to anyone who needs it that I have these conditions and am disabled. Please be my angel and help me. I need some caring, loving soul to help me. I posted my story on “Wish Upon A Hero” web site and my username is “Tuffyrascal” I am trying to get the word out to hopefully get a little help. Thank you. OKTuffyrascal@aol.com

 

[jkiernan56]

I would argue that faith an love are entirely separate. I can love a sibling that I have no faith in to pay back a loan or hold down a job. I can have faith in a lawyer that will win my case without loving him. I think you are unnecessarily binding the two in order to account for the necessity of faith as claimed by some.

You said “Faith pleases God. That is what I would say in a nutshell”… why does God need to be pleased in the first place? It seems a bit silly that God needs to be pleased… smacks of offerings to heathen Gods except the offering is your acceptance of it’s existence instead of a virgin.

God does not “need” to be pleased. But it is true that faith does please God. Faith is for our good, not for God. When a child trusts their parent(s), and performs an action that demonstrates their trust in their parent(s), on a human level that action would be pleasing to their parent(s). Actions that are based out of trust in God are pleasing to God - but you are right - God does not “need” to be pleased. God needs nothing.

 

[liquidpele]

God does not “need” to be pleased. But it is true that faith does please God. Faith is for our good, not for God. When a child trusts their parent(s), and performs an action that demonstrates their trust in their parent(s), on a human level that action would be pleasing to their parent(s). Actions that are based out of trust in God are pleasing to God - but you are right - God does not “need” to be pleased. God needs nothing.

It’s interesting that people always compare God to their parents.

 

[jkiernan56]

It’s interesting that people always compare God to their parents.

Its interesting that some people aren’t able to make the comparison.

 

[liquidpele]

Its interesting that some people aren’t able to make the comparison.

Actually… yes. That would be more interesting. I don’t know of anyone that is incapable of making that comparison though.

 

[jkiernan56]

Actually… yes. That would be more interesting. I don’t know of anyone that is incapable of making that comparison though.

You don’t huh? What about people who grow up in a home with abusive parents or no parents at all? Do you think they are able to make the connection?

 

[roselily]

you asked what value is there in faith?
I wish to tell you that outside Christian truth there was no life,

“may your soul rejoice in God’s
mercy,
and may you never be ashamed
to praise him.
Do your work in good time,
and in his own time God will
give you your reward.”
-Sirach 51:29-30

 

[shoewindow3000]

When explaining why God does not reveal himself to us in a physical way, many say that God must be taken on faith, even so far as to say that God requires faith and that proving himself to us would make faith unnecessary. I’m curious why people think that faith is such a high ideal and why it is actually necessary beyond attempting to account for the reality of things?

Why would a world where God revealed himself not be a better solution, especially considering he supposedly did this before with Jesus and Moses? Why is taking things on faith a necessity or even a good thing? Why would a God who is supposed to love us require that we take his very existence on faith and the insistence of other mortals?

I have three options for you:

1.) Don’t try to confuse the Will of God with what you think should be.

2.) Consider this: Jesus said to Thomas after His Resurrection, “because you have seen, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and believe!”

3.) Give me your e-mail, and I will ask God for you when I die, OK?

 

[authenticity]

When explaining why God does not reveal himself to us in a physical way, many say that God must be taken on faith, even so far as to say that God requires faith and that proving himself to us would make faith unnecessary. I’m curious why people think that faith is such a high ideal and why it is actually necessary beyond attempting to account for the reality of things?

Why would a world where God revealed himself not be a better solution, especially considering he supposedly did this before with Jesus and Moses? Why is taking things on faith a necessity or even a good thing? Why would a God who is supposed to love us require that we take his very existence on faith and the insistence of other mortals?

I’d like to try an analogy to answer your question.

Let’s say that God is ‘power’ and faith is ‘conductivity’. If the conductivity of a particular substance is low, power cannot flow through it and the workings of that power would not be ‘revealed’ in whatever mechanism is being animated. Also, even if the conductivity of a substance is high, the work being done is not the power itself-- the power is what animates it. For example, you can’t see electricity, but you can see a light bulb being turned on. No power, no light.

To apply this analogy, you and I are light bulbs. The power that animates us is God. Your faith is your conductivity which determines how brightly you shine. If you think that you are the cause of the light that comes from you, you disconnect yourself from the source. Through your faith, the light dispels the darkness and animates or gives life to this world. Though you cannot see the power, you see the workings of that power. In doing so, God is revealed.

 

[Betterave]

You don’t huh? What about people who grow up in a home with abusive parents or no parents at all? Do you think they are able to make the connection?

I think they often are able to make the connection and they often hate God for this very reason. This is the problem of evil, i.e., the problem of missing love, love gone awol, a problem which can only be solved by the discovery of love as redemptive, as the conqueror of evil, even while we remain in the face of evil, a discovery that is only made through … faith.

 

[Betterave]

liquidpele,

if you’re interested in doing some reading, I think *Spe salvi *has some beautiful things to say about faith and its connection to hope and love.

Best

 

[liquidpele]

liquidpele,

if you’re interested in doing some reading, I think *Spe salvi *has some beautiful things to say about faith and its connection to hope and love.

Best

I appreciate the reference, but I likely won’t get to it for some time. I have a stack already… wife reads much faster than I