What was the first church?

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Mark01 said:
Those keys have been passed generation after generation to present day. This is The Church, past, present and future. She is One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Only The Church was given those keys. Our separated brothers and sisters are a part of that Church, in an imperfect way because they do not embrace all of Her teachings and we pray that one day they will come back home to the unity as intended by Jesus when He first called us, His disciples to form that community/church. His Church, not my church, your church or our church. The Church.
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Very well put.
 
Some might say the first church was a simpler one than today’s when disciples were called Christians, not only Catholics. And where they broke bread in homes with a simple heart.

Acts 11:26 And they conversed there in the church a whole year; and they taught a great multitude, so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.

Acts 2:46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart

Where belief in Christ and love was all required to be a disciple.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Jn 13:35 By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.
 
The “first church” existed within the existing synagouges…the “Jesus followers” were still Jewish…they considered Jesus as the Messiah and continued to worship as Jews…they did not form a separate body until much later. We see Paul going to the various synagouges to find “the believers”…as they were Jews.

As the Jesus movement spread to Gentile “God fearer” communities who were patrons of the Jewish synagouges…but didn’t want to go through the rite of circumcision to “become Jewish” the controversy mentioned in Acts and Paul’s letters as to if a person had to be circumcised to be “Christian”.

When the gospels were written they indicated that the day would come when the believers in Jesus as Messiah would be put out of the synagouges.

Not until the fall of Jerusalem did Christianity “split” with Judaism to be it’s own unique religious body…up until then those who believed in Jesus existed as another sect of Judaism…like the Essenes…Pharisees…Sacducees.

When did the first “Christian” congregation form independent of it’s Jewish context? No one knows for certain. For the first 60-70 years it appears Christianity existed within the Jewish community…being a “Christian” was a different way of being “Jewish”.
 
Here’s a list that might help:
If you worship Cornerstone Church**,**** it was founded by John C. Hagee in May of 1975 in San Antonio, Texas. Since then, several other churches have adopted this name.
If you are a believer at the Vineyard Christian Fellowship, your denomination was started by Ken Gullickson and Keith Green in Santa Monica, California in 1974.
If you are a member of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith began your congregation in Costa Mesa, California in 1965.
If you are a follower of the Church of Scientology, your group owes is origin to L. Ron Hubbard in Washington, D.C. in 1952.
If you are a worshipper at the Iglesia in Cristo, Felix Manalao instituted your sect in the in 1914.
If you are a disciple of the Assemblies of God or other splinter Pentecostal groups, “Church of the Nazarene”, “Holiness Church”, “Pilgrim Holiness Church”, your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men during the 20th century.
If you are a Christian Scientist, your organization was brought into existence by Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy in 1879.
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, your church was established by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in 1879****.**
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Seventh Day Adventist, Mrs. Ellen Gould White inaugurated your group in the in 1860.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), your religion was organized in New York by Joseph Smith in 1830.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Methodist, your form of Protestantism is credited to John Wesley in London in 1738.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you are a Baptist, you look to John Smyth as originator of your institution in Amsterdam in 1609.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a** Presbyterian****, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the Year 1560.**
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year** 1534**** because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.**
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you are a member of the Orthodox Church (Russian, Eastern or Greek), your church went into schism in 1054.
**If you are a Roman Catholic, your Church was founded in Jerusalem by Jesus Christ (Acts 2, 1 Tim. 3:15) with Peter as its first Pope (Mt. 16: 18-19, Jn. 21: 15-17) in the year **33 A.D.
 
CMatt25 said:
Some might say the first church was a simpler one than today’s when disciples were called Christians, not only Catholics. And where they broke bread in homes with a simple heart.

Acts 11:26 And they conversed there in the church a whole year; and they taught a great multitude, so that at Antioch the disciples were first named Christians.

Acts 2:46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart

Where belief in Christ and love was all required to be a disciple.

Jn 3:16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

Jn 13:35 By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.
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And opther might say **you’d be wrong. **
What many faith alone adherents fail to understand is that faith – real Biblical faith - is not simply an intellectual ascent to belief. It is a total surrender to God by doing his will – not just acknowledging who he is. The message of salvation was never simple – only to those who do not understand:
Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
Luke 9:22
"If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.”
The Early Church was called upon to worship the SAME way:
2 Thess. 2:15
Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
2 Thess. 3:6
"Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us"
1 Cor. 11:2
"I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you".
2 Tim. 1:13
Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me**, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.**
The New Testament never condoned factions or worhipping differently. In fact - it comdemns this.
 
**Elvis, I could play your game all day but perhaps you add far too much to what is required to follow His will for righteousness.

There is belief. There is love. There is…

Matt25:33 He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left.

34 Then the King will say to the people on his right, Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world.

35 I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes,

36 naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.

37 The righteous will then answer him, When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink?

38 When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you?

39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?

40 The King will reply, I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me!

Then what happens to those who do not these things? And to those who do?

46 These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life.

Elvis, belief, love, and expressing your love in ways such as these. God’s will is pretty simple isn’t it when you put your faith in Him and not the rules of men? God bless you on your journey my brother in Christ.**
 
CMatt25 said:
Elvis, I could play your game all day but perhaps you add far too much to what is required to follow His will for righteousness.

There is belief. There is love. There is…

Matt25:33 He will put the righteous people at his right and the others at his left.

34 Then the King will say to the people on his right, Come, you that are blessed by my Father! Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world.

35 I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes,

36 naked and you clothed me; I was sick and you took care of me, in prison and you visited me.

37 The righteous will then answer him, When, Lord, did we ever see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink?

38 When did we ever see you a stranger and welcome you in our homes, or naked and clothe you?

39 When did we ever see you sick or in prison, and visit you?

40 The King will reply, I tell you, whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me!

Then what happens to those who do not these things? And to those who do?

46 These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life.

Elvis, belief, love, and expressing your love in ways such as these. God’s will is pretty simple isn’t it when you put your faith in Him and not the rules of men? God bless you on your journey my brother in Christ.
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"There is belief. There is love. There is…"??
What does that mean? Your problem is that you simply don’t understand the message of the Gospel and you are placing your own understanding of Scripture above the actual meaning.

**Denying yourself and picking up your cross daily (Luke 9:22) is the most difficult thing for anybody to do. That’s why Jesus made it a requirement for salvation. **
Hearing the gospel and merely believing is simple. Actually living the gospel is an entirely different matter.

Nobody’s playing games but you, my lukewarm friend.
 
elvisman said:
***"There is belief. There is *love. There is…"??
What does that mean? Your problem is that you simply don’t understand the message of the Gospel and you are placing your own understanding of Scripture above the actual meaning.

**Denying yourself and picking up your cross daily (Luke 9:22) **is the most difficult thing for anybody to do. That’s why Jesus made it a requirement for salvation.
Hearing the gospel and merely believing is simple. Actually living the gospel is an entirely different matter.

Nobody’s playing games but you, my lukewarm friend.
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**Elvis, you must not have read what “there is”. I put it down for you. Even bolded it and used colors as you do.

And you apparently know what Christ meant by lukewarm? And yet you dare judge me. I profess Christ and I strive to follow what He taught and strive to learn what His plan is for me. If that is YOUR definition so be it for you.** 🤷
 
CMatt25 said:
**Elvis, you must not have read what “there is”. I put it down for you. Even bolded it and used colors as you do. **

And you apparently know what Christ meant by lukewarm? And yet you dare judge me. I profess Christ and I strive to follow what He taught and strive to learn what His plan is for me. If that is YOUR definition so be it for you. 🤷
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**All I’ve gotten from you is moral relativism - the belief that "Everybody’s truth is okay with God as long as they believe in Jesus."
This is not what Scripture teaches and that’s why I gave you the passage Matt. 7:22-23.

As for the verses you supplied - yes, that is the way we are to live our lives - faith working in love.

Finally - when I call you lukewarm - it’s because of the way you misrepresent the Church’s teachings. You water them down with relativism and refer to those of us who are orthodox in our beliefs as extremists.

**I am not judging your heart as only God can do that. I am judging your actions - as I am called to do **(Romans 16:17, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, Luke 6:44, 12:57, John 7:24).
 
elvisman said:
Here’s a list that might help:
If you worship Cornerstone Church**,**** it was founded by** John C. Hagee in May of 1975 in San Antonio, Texas. Since then, several other churches have adopted this name.
If you are a believer at the Vineyard Christian Fellowship, your denomination was started by Ken Gullickson and Keith Green in Santa Monica, California in 1974.
If you are a member of Calvary Chapel, Chuck Smith began your congregation in Costa Mesa, California in 1965**.**
If you are a follower of the Church of Scientology**, your group owes is origin to L. Ron Hubbard** in Washington, D.C. in 1952**.**
If you are a worshipper at the Iglesia in Cristo, Felix Manalao instituted your sect in the in 1914**.**
If you are a disciple of the Assemblies of God or other splinter Pentecostal groups, “Church of the Nazarene”, “Holiness Church”, “Pilgrim Holiness Church”, your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men during the 20th century**.**
If you are a Christian Scientist, your organization was brought into existence by Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy in 1879**.**
If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, your church was established by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in** 1879****.**
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865**.**
If you are a Seventh Day Adventist, Mrs. Ellen Gould White inaugurated your group in the in 1860**.**
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), your religion was organized in New York by Joseph Smith in 1830**.**
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774**.**
If you are a Methodist, your form of Protestantism is credited to John Wesley in London in 1738**.**
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 162****8.
If you are a Baptist, you look to John Smyth as originator of your institution in Amsterdam in 1609**.**
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582**.**
If you are a** Presbyterian****, your religion was founded when John Knox** brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the Year 1560**.**
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year** 1534**** because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.**
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517**.**
If you are a member of the Orthodox Church (Russian, Eastern or Greek), your church went into schism in 1054.
If you are a Roman Catholic, your Church was founded in Jerusalem by Jesus Christ (Acts 2, 1 Tim. 3:15) with Peter as its first Pope (Mt. 16: 18-19, Jn. 21: 15-17) in the year 33 A.D.
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This is great. Just something I wanted for comparisons of scripture teachings. Thanks!
 
elvisman said:
All I’ve gotten from you is moral relativism - the belief that "Everybody’s truth is okay with God as long as they believe in Jesus. This not what Scripture teaches.
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Elvis, we will know what is “ok” when He comes again. In the meantime faith.

Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6)

Whom unites us:

Eph 2:14** For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition**, the enmities in his flesh:

15 Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace;

16 And might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, killing the enmities in himself.

19 Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God

Romans 12:5 So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

God bless you Elvis and alll of us as journey with Him together.
 
CMatt25 said:
Elvis, we will know what is “ok” when He comes again. In the meantime faith.

Jesus is the Truth (John 14:6)

Whom unites us:

Eph 2:14** For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and breaking down the middle wall of partition**, the enmities in his flesh:

15 Making void the law of commandments contained in decrees; that he might make the two in himself into one new man, making peace;

16 And might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, killing the enmities in himself.

19 Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God

Romans 12:5 So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

God bless you Elvis and alll of us as journey with Him together.
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Uhhh – NO. That’s a cop-out.
**You should know NOW what is right – what is “ok”. **

We have the Church - the finalAuthority on earth (Matt. 16:19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, 20:21-23) to remind us of what is right and wrong.

We have the Scriptures – the inerrant written word of God to tell us what is right and what is wrong:

John 14:18
“I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.”

John 16:13
“But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.”

We don’t have to wait until we die and we don’t have to rely purely on a blind faith to know what is right:

The only reason I keep responding to your posts is not to argue but to try to stop you from making falseclaims and misrepresenting the Church – of which you claim to be a part. This shouldn’t be something you take lightly - you should be terrified about misleading people into a lie (Matt. 18:6, 2 Pet. 2:1)

“We will know what is “ok” when He comes again”, indeed . . . 🤷
 
In reading in the NT it does seem that what may be called pre-"C"hurch, as in a large, formal structure with what we know as “mass” with all its frmalities, etc did not exist in
those 1st Century Christian "c"hurches. From my reading in the NT they seemed to have practiced a very simple form of congregating.
No involved formal procedures like we see in the mass in the (Big C) Church some many years later and uo until our modern times.

Am I incorrect in believing that those first few generations of Christians did not have a list of formal prayers, no holy water, no veneration of the Mother Mary, no formalities of standing and kneeling, no kissing of icons as many of us do in Orthodoxy?
 
**I have Scriptures to tell me what is right or wrong. I have the Holy Spirit. You do as well Elvis. And if we only open our hearts to God, on our walks with Him His Spirit will lead us to where He wants us to be.

I agree Jesus is the Truth, He came to us and He will come again.

Are you Jesus, Elvis, and I just don’t know it yet? I don’t mean to be “smart” about it but I only ask because you seem to know and judge everything.

I am trying to lead people to Jesus, the One Truth with Whom we are united. Less important to me is where they find Him. My Lord and Savior is not lie. Nor is He a cop-out. Again, God bless you Elvis on your journey and peace. **
 
Vasian said:
In reading in the NT it does seem that what may be called pre-"C"hurch, as in a large, formal structure with what we know as “mass” with all its frmalities, etc did not exist in
those 1st Century Christian "c"hurches. From my reading in the NT they seemed to have practiced a very simple form of congregating.
No involved formal procedures like we see in the mass in the (Big C) Church some many years later and uo until our modern times.

Am I incorrect in believing that those first few generations of Christians did not have a list of formal prayers, no holy water, no veneration of the Mother Mary, no formalities of standing and kneeling, no kissing of icons as many of us do in Orthodoxy?
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No my reading of the first Christian church in Acts tends to make me think you could be correct. The ECFs may have added some things. 🤷
 
CMatt25 said:
I have Scriptures to tell me what is right or wrong. I have the Holy Spirit. You do as well Elvis. And if we only open our hearts to God, on our walks with Him His Spirit will lead us to where He wants us to be.

I agree Jesus is the Truth, He came to us and He will come again.

**Are you Jesus, Elvis, and I just don’t know it yet? I don’t mean to be “smart” about it but I only ask because you seem to know and judge everything. **

I am trying to lead people to Jesus, the One Truth with Whom we are united. Less important to me is where they find Him. My Lord and Savior is not lie. Nor is He a cop-out. Again, God bless you Elvis on your journey and peace.
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**I ****never **called Jesus a lie or a cop-out. I called your statements a cop- out because you pollute them with relativism. You must remember that truth is not up for a vote
Something is not true because we believe it to be true – we believe it because it is true.
Secondly, your statement – “Less important is where they find him”** is complete nonsense. Jesus equated the Church with his very self (Acts 9:4-5, *“Saul, Saul – why are you persecuting ME?”*****). How can you make the claim that it’s not important where to find him? That is a completely ****ignorant **and ludicrous statement.
**Your watered-down version of Catholicism is evidence that you know not your faith and that you twist the Scriptures to your own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16). Unfortunately – would-be Catholics like yourself lead others down the path to destruction with your ignorance.
 
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