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BornInMarch
Guest
Honestly I doubt I’d recognize a liturgical abuse if I saw one. I usually don’t sit close to the front.
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What was the most egregious liturgical abuse you ever witnessed?
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I_trust
Guest
Sorry…
Communion service in place of a Mass. With 3 priests working in the office at the same time, none celebrating a daily Mass.
Communion service in place of a Mass. With 3 priests working in the office at the same time, none celebrating a daily Mass.
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Duesenberg
Guest
That’s tragic. We used to have a similar situation here every Saturday morning. Out of curiosity – those that typically conducted the communion services, were the male or female? Thanks.
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I_trust
Guest
I only attended one, that was enough for me. Actually I ended up walking out. I found a daily Mass later in the day at a different parish. I believe one of our women in the parish became involved in the terrible “woman priests” group.
When the new pastor started he had to deal with a type of mutiny for instituting needed changes. It was very hard for him. He eventually made changes very slowly. Our newest pastor has continued the process of change towards obedience. 22 years I have prayed, asked and waited for one more change…That we install kneelers, and to kneel during Mass. It is a comparatively small mater when you consider that the validity of Sacraments were suspect during the worst years. It is like Moses not being allowed to enter the Holy Land after all those years in the dessert…It was the first change I prayed for.
I certainly have to praise God for all the changes that have been made, it is truly remarkable. The latest change has been the catechetical materials used for faith formation…from arguably heretical materials 2 decades ago to great materials today.
When the new pastor started he had to deal with a type of mutiny for instituting needed changes. It was very hard for him. He eventually made changes very slowly. Our newest pastor has continued the process of change towards obedience. 22 years I have prayed, asked and waited for one more change…That we install kneelers, and to kneel during Mass. It is a comparatively small mater when you consider that the validity of Sacraments were suspect during the worst years. It is like Moses not being allowed to enter the Holy Land after all those years in the dessert…It was the first change I prayed for.
I certainly have to praise God for all the changes that have been made, it is truly remarkable. The latest change has been the catechetical materials used for faith formation…from arguably heretical materials 2 decades ago to great materials today.
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Duesenberg
Guest
It’s wonderful that substantial reform has been made at your parish. I salute both of your pastors. It takes years for that sort of rot to set-in and it takes time, patience, will and God’s grace to repair things…
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stpurl
Guest
Priest wearing local high school sweatshirt to process down aisle, greeting parishioners with “We got the title Yeah, praise God, the Lord be with” (then taking it off, putting on a chasuble, and continuing Mass.
No penitential rite
No Kyrie
No Gloria (it was neither Lent nor Advent).
Made up collect.
No ‘he’ or "him’ used in either epistle reading.
A song instead of responsorial psalm, not based on a psalm itself.
No ‘he’ or ‘him’ in gospel, which was ‘acted out’ with 3 other people.
No creed.
Long prayers of the people about stewardship of the earth
Made up Eucharistic prayers where, “Jesus gave the cup to his disciples, family, and friends, and thanked you God for your faithfulness. He gave the cup for all because you are loved so much”.
Tells everybody to ‘join hands for Our Father’.
Comes down and ‘high fives’ everybody at end of pew down center aisle entire length of church, then the same on the other side walking back.
Uses glass chalice.
Made up ‘sending forth to be salt for the world as Christ’s holy pilgrim people’.
P.S. This abuse was very. . .recent.
No penitential rite
No Kyrie
No Gloria (it was neither Lent nor Advent).
Made up collect.
No ‘he’ or "him’ used in either epistle reading.
A song instead of responsorial psalm, not based on a psalm itself.
No ‘he’ or ‘him’ in gospel, which was ‘acted out’ with 3 other people.
No creed.
Long prayers of the people about stewardship of the earth
Made up Eucharistic prayers where, “Jesus gave the cup to his disciples, family, and friends, and thanked you God for your faithfulness. He gave the cup for all because you are loved so much”.
Tells everybody to ‘join hands for Our Father’.
Comes down and ‘high fives’ everybody at end of pew down center aisle entire length of church, then the same on the other side walking back.
Uses glass chalice.
Made up ‘sending forth to be salt for the world as Christ’s holy pilgrim people’.
P.S. This abuse was very. . .recent.
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Duesenberg
Guest
That’s really sad. I do wonder why any priest would act in such a reprehensible manner? Sometimes I think they do it specifically to offend…
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Blessedwithfive
Guest
No I do not believe they do it to offend. They just were poorly formed and do not understand the impact they are having. Interestingly, the more they try to become of the world, the more people leave because (I think) they don’t see why Catholicism is any different than any other religion. I actually feel bad for the priests. The whole religion thing fell apart on their watch…
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Duesenberg
Guest
If that’s the case then I would question their fitness to be priests. Did they really act this way throughout seminary? Were they even taught how to celebrate the Mass in the correct way and the grave importance of following the official rubrics? Was there no correction along the way?
Don’t get me wrong – I don’t care for ridiculously severe, artificially pious priests either. But they should leave seminary with a deep understanding of the rubrics of the Mass and understand just how important it is to follow said rubrics.
Other than the glass chalice (provided it truly is a glass chalice and not simply a wine glass), the above list is truly hideous.
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R_H_Benson
Guest
The “Seattle Seahawks Mass”.
I didn’t witness it firsthand, just saw the video.
I didn’t witness it firsthand, just saw the video.
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Blessedwithfive
Guest
_f that’s the case then I would question their fitness to be priests. Did they really act this way throughout seminary? Were they even taught how to celebrate the Mass in the correct way and the grave importance of following the official rubrics? Was there no correction along the way?
No, they REALLY didn’t get taught the reverence of the Mass. They were told to be “pastoral” and to make everyone feel welcome with little regard to the official rules. Even my priest told me not to tell the kids that it was a grave matter to miss Sunday mass because they didn’t want to go or they had something “better” to do. He said it is “very off putting” to inform the kids (Confirmation aged) that Mass is an obligation and people should only come if they “are drawn” into it or want to come. It is VERY sad. I really don’t know what to do. It seems to be everywhere. (I have four churches in 30 min and they are all like that, or worse)
No, they REALLY didn’t get taught the reverence of the Mass. They were told to be “pastoral” and to make everyone feel welcome with little regard to the official rules. Even my priest told me not to tell the kids that it was a grave matter to miss Sunday mass because they didn’t want to go or they had something “better” to do. He said it is “very off putting” to inform the kids (Confirmation aged) that Mass is an obligation and people should only come if they “are drawn” into it or want to come. It is VERY sad. I really don’t know what to do. It seems to be everywhere. (I have four churches in 30 min and they are all like that, or worse)
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stpurl
Guest
Well, he’s 64 and became a priest in the early 1980s in a diocese with a very progressive bishop who was bishop then and remained bishop of that diocese for a few decades (there have been more than one of those so I’m not ‘fingering’ a particular diocese here) so for pretty much his entire priesthood this approach was not just accepted but applauded. Even under a new bishop the priest’s personal popularity is enough that he cannot be ‘criticized’ --and he is popular, and for good reason, outside the liturgy or any particular Catholic need he is the kind who always shows up at all the school functions, knows your name, is ready to start anything from a labyrinth to contemplative prayer (though not 40 hours or perpetual adoration or anything like that) and gives great talks at a local ‘retreat’ along with lots of ‘nuns on the bus’. There is no ‘term limit’ for parishes here so all I can hope is that he’s needed more elsewhere --and soon–before I kick the bucket. But even that is selfish of me. I just wish that he was not the kind of ‘ecumenical’ that says, “Let’s make over worship and put in all the good things that Protestants, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists etc do instead!” Because we don’t wind up with “Mass with extra goodies to make us more inclusive”, we wind up with “Mess which has thrown away the important things and added shiny baubles for the sake of glitter and worldly adulation” or so it seems to me. And if I’m wrong, may God forgive me. And I pray for that priest daily, not ‘that he will change’, but that “Whatever God wants will happen, and whatever he wants from me, that I will do.”
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Duesenberg
Guest
If that’s the case, then it’s deeply chilling.
Let me ask this. What if an (arch)bishop finally got his fill of such abuses and created (or purchased) a video and booklet (with footnotes) that was distributed to each of his priests with the direction to read the booklet and watch the video. Followed by the bishop sending out a trusted, correctly trained priest (with teaching and people skills) to not only train/retrain each priest in one-on-one sessions, but also to get each retrained priest to sign a contract with the bishop stating they would faithfully adhere to the official rubrics for the Mass.
Do you think most priests that commit liturgical abuses on a regular basis would react with a feeling of “hallelujah!, now I actually know what to do” and then proceed to do it, or do you think they would bristle with offense at being micromanaged and continue to abuse the Mass anytime they could?
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Duesenberg
Guest
All the garbage you listed has nothing to do with being “progressive” though. There’s this mythical boogieman out there that many call “liberalism”, “progressivism” or perhaps “modernism” as the source for this type of garbage and I just don’t think that’s accurate. It doesn’t explain where this garbage is really coming from.
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Walking_Home
Guest
The directives on how the Mass should be – come from Rome. A Bishop/Archbishop needs help – there is already the proper authority —the Congregation of Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments. Once the response comes via Rome – this can than be passed down to the priests.
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phil19034
Guest
I have attended Mass at a parish that used a recorded music at Mass, and I will tell you that it’s a bad idea.
The priest walked over to a radio and hit play.
One of the problems with recorded music is that’s actually totally against the mission of the liturgical reforms of Vatican II. Vatican II wanted more lay participation… using recorded music negates that big time, because not only are the laity not singing the mass, no one physically in the Church performing the prayerful music.
There is NO reason why the parish cannot have live music, because the parish can sing without instruments and can still sing without a cantor and/or choir.
God Bless
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Duesenberg
Guest
So have I and I thought it was a GREAT idea. It was professionally done. Outstanding pipe organ. The people provided the voices.
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phil19034
Guest
phil19034:
So have I and I thought it was a GREAT idea. It was professionally done. Outstanding pipe organ. The people provided the voices.
yeah… that’s not what I saw… I saw a priest pick up a boom box and place it on the Altar and press play.phil19034:
So have I and I thought it was a GREAT idea. It was professionally done. Outstanding pipe organ. The people provided the voices.
Sometimes you have to forsee the “slippery slope.” When you grant freedoms, it’s always human nature to abuse our freedom. We’ve been abusing freedom since the Garden of Eden.
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Duesenberg
Guest
That’s an entirely different problem.
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MrZoom
Guest
I remember when I was growing up attending St. Brigid’s Parish in Detroit (since closed, the building is now home to a Protestant congregation), we almost never said the Creed - only did it on special occasions. I wondered why we didn’t but never thought to ask.
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