What was the most egregious liturgical abuse you ever witnessed?

[Blessedwithfive]

I think they are told by the bishop to do whatever they can to be more accommodating to hopefully attract more people. I think (at least in my diocese) the problem is with the bishop…
The number of registered parishioners is the driving factor, not the number of parishioners who attend Mass weekly. Our parish has had a 5%drop in attendance for the last few years but a 10% increase in registered members so even with fewer people attending Mass, we are considered a “growing parish”.

 

[Cruciferi]

Thanks to the internet I witnessed the infamous “clown mass”. Couldn’t believe my eyes

 

[TheLegend]

I see that prerecorded hymns are a no no. Does that mean i can retire push play. Methinks the parish would be just a bit upset. But hey there is only maybe ten or so, so i should be able to take em.

 

[Duesenberg]

Thanks to the internet I witnessed the infamous “clown mass”. Couldn’t believe my eyes

You can go on Youtube and search for “clown Masses” and “liturgical abuses” right and videos will pop-up. Almost all posted by “traditionalists” who want want to stir the pot of hatred.

 

[Cruciferi]

It was still amazing

 

[MonteRCMS]

There were also some POSITIVE things, such as a “narrated Mass” in which a missionary priest would stop every few seconds and explain each step he was doing.

Not in terms of God’s love, but in terms of why this prayer or that prayer, why he washes his hands, how he does the offertory. And how and why he cleans / purifies the chalice and other vessels at the end of Mass. The forgiveness of sins / prayers.

I experienced this personally in 1966. Amazing. Never forgot it. Always asked for this sort of explanation over the years.

At work, we had a discussion, and the fellows from India who were Hindu knew EVERYTHING about Christianity. We asked him HOW DID HE KNOW THAT. He said that in India, they study religion. One of our guys said that here, we learn by osmosis. Isn’t that terrible? We have pride in our ignorance.

 

[pnewton]

Thanks to the internet I witnessed the infamous “clown mass”. Couldn’t believe my eyes

If you mean this literally, then that is wise.

 

[R_H_Benson]

You can go on Youtube and search for “clown Masses” and “liturgical abuses” right and videos will pop-up. Almost all posted by “traditionalists” who want want to stir the pot of hatred.

Is it “stirring the pot of hatred” or whistle-blowing? The fact that YouTube contains so many compilations of the most grotesque liturgical abuses indicates that these things have happened in the past (and sadly, there are also recent examples) . The faithful deserve to see what is permitted to go on out there on Sunday mornings. So instead of blaming the trads who post the videos, consider why these liturgical abuses occurred. Don’t shoot the messenger - address the problem.

 

[pnewton]

Is it “stirring the pot of hatred” or whistle-blowing?

One follows proper protocols of reporting abuse. The other posts on YouTube.

In addition, some of these reports have either been deliberately falsified, or passed along so much that the context has been lost. I have seen both Anglican and Episcopalian services misrepresented as Catholic Mass, and ceremonies outside of Catholic Mass, such as concerts and seminars, misrepresented as Mass.

A picture is not worth a thousand words if the caption is a lie. That is why it is not wise to believe everything we see on the internet. It is better to treat such articles from extreme groups like you would similar news from the Huffington Post or Breitbart.

 

[Mintaka]

Obviously this isn’t the most important liturgical topic, and it doesn’t rise to the level of liturgical abuse. But it obviously doesn’t go without saying! So I will say it.

If people want to listen to beautiful recorded music, or sing along, they can do it at home. They can do it over in the parish hall. They can do it anywhere but in church at Mass, because Mass is for worshipping the Lord at a particular moment, in a particular place.

If you could have a beautiful puppet or a beautiful android say Mass, would it be prayerful?

No, because a puppet and a robot are not alive.

If you could choose between having to stay home and make a beautiful spiritual communion, and going to Mass and receiving Jesus Christ Himself, which would be better?

Obviously, the Sacrament is better, because of the Real Presence.

God is pleased by having real live people singing and praying to Him. He is not more pleased with Pavarotti than with Offkey Guy. If he wanted silicon and wires to pray to Him, He would raise up the rocks of the earth to do it.

(This is not to say that artistry is useless; even the Psalms say we should sing to God with all our skill and knowledge. But I guarantee that no human in this world is as good a singer as the angels and saints. We are all bush league beginners compared to them.)

If we don’t trust God to accept our best attempt at music, we don’t trust God.

If it really bothers us, we should spend some cash, or sweat effort by members of the parish, on better musicians and singers. If it doesn’t bother us to that extent, why use recorded music to cover it up?

We don’t worship dead idols, so why use dead music?

 

[Mintaka]

I agree that sometimes people wallow in reports of liturgical abuses, to the point that people misrepresent or mistake services by other religions for Catholic Masses.

But OTOH, it is also very bad for people to be left ignorant that a Mass they are attending is full of offenses to God, backstabs against the Pope and the bishops, and lies about doctrine. Priests are tricked into doing stupid or evil things, and parishioners are tricked into funding them. The souls of the faithful can be deformed instead of being trained to grow in God’s love.

I was blessed by going to a half-decent parish as a kid. Compared to what other people suffered, I had it darned good. But compared to what my parish was like before I was born, I got a raw deal. I have had to spend my entire adult life on finding out stuff I should have learned as a Catholic schoolkid.

So of course I am eager to point out problems before they get worse! Of course I don’t want other people stuck in the dark, like I was!

 

[Duesenberg]

Is it “stirring the pot of hatred” or whistle-blowing? The fact that YouTube contains so many compilations of the most grotesque liturgical abuses

It’s pot-stirring. The “compilations” are all of the same abuses!

 

[Duesenberg]

I remember when I was growing up attending St. Brigid’s Parish in Detroit (since closed, the building is now home to a Protestant congregation), we almost never said the Creed - only did it on special occasions. I wondered why we didn’t but never thought to ask.

We have not said the Nicene Creed in my parish since the change was made in 2011. My pastor knuckled under to lay “liturgists” at my parish who objected to term “consubstantial” and the “overuse” of the term “Father.” We have have used the Apostles Creed ever since.

I’m not certain if that’s specifically prohibited, but it’s wrong and it takes a toll.

 

[babochka]

My pastor knuckled under to lay “liturgists” at my parish who objected to term “consubstantial”

I’ve never understood why some people consider Americans so ignorant and/or uneducable that we do not understand what “consubstantial” means.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

Incredibly, no one has cited GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) yet. These are the official rules for saying the Mass:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...cdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html

It’s also on the USCCB web site. Through the years I have asked all sorts of people connected with the church (Eucharistic ministers, RCIA instructors, etc.) if they were aware of GIRM. So far all I’ve gotten is blank stares. If more people had read GIRM, I think there would be fewer problems. There is also a web site and publication, https://adoremus.org/ that focuses on the liturgy. Their letters to the editor section is a good cross section of what is currently going on across the country.

This has been my #2 pet peeve (#1 is child abuse) for years, so here is my list of issues (not all are abuses) over the years. And if you’re wondering what I’ve done, I’ve met privately with the local pastor twice and written a lot of letters. I’ve also written to Adoremus several times and have had my letters published, with responses. I’ve also talked to people like Eucharistic ministers, ushers, etc. privately after Mass. Not that it did much good.

Priest opens the Mass by telling a joke.
Priest opens Mass by saying “Good morning,” ignoring the fact that “The Lord be with you” is a greeting.
I’ve seen a lay Eucharistic minister refuse to give a young child (who was eligible…) communion in the mouth. The girl cried. The Eucharistic minister also cried after I got done with her.
Eucharistic ministers should approach the altar AFTER the Agnus Dei. I still have yet to see that in practice.
Eucharistic ministers used to receive communion before the priest–he would pass out the hosts, and naturally the Euch. ministers would pop them into their mouths. THEN the priest would have communion.
Eucharistic ministers used to self-communicate: They would line up and each take a chalice from the altar, directly, and drink some wine.
Wine remaining after Communion was consumed by lay Eucharistic ministers–who also then cleaned the chalice.
The organ player used to play during the Consecration, and sometimes a soloist would sing along–all during the Consecration.
The priest used to wear sky blue robes during Lent and Advent.
During the sign of peace the priest would plunge into the congregation like a rock star, walking all around the church giving high gives and shaking hands.
Once the priest had us all give a “special” sign of peace that was indistinguishable from a Nazi salute. To make it even more interesting, the church floor–installed in the 19th c.–had swastikas on it. Luckily the local paper was not there for a photo op.
Eucharistic ministers (lay people) distributed communication while the priest sat in a chair.
After female altar servers were approved, I didn’t see any male altar servers for several years. They are still a small minority.

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I could go on, but I ran out of room. For those who think we stupid lay people should just say “Yes, Father Bill…” and shut up, I offer sections 2 and 3 of Canon Law #212:

Canon 212, §2: “Christ’s faithful, are at liberty to make known their needs, especially their spiritual needs, and their wishes to the Pastors of the Church.

§3 They have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church.”

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I’ve never understood why some people consider Americans so ignorant and/or uneducable that we do not understand what “consubstantial” means.

I guess all those commissions, etc. about translations and official prayers at Mass were just a waste of time. Just ask Joe Blow and Aunt Tillie in the congregation, right?

 

[Duesenberg]

Priest opens the Mass by telling a joke.

Priest opens Mass by saying “Good morning,” ignoring the fact that “The Lord be with you” is a greeting.

No. The Mass begins with “In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” It does not begin with the processional music. If the celebrant wants to give a suitable welcome, it should come before the Mass begins.

Priest opens Mass by saying “Good morning,” ignoring the fact that “The Lord be with you” is a greeting.

I’ve seen a lay Eucharistic minister refuse to give a young child (who was eligible…) communion in the mouth.

While serving Mass, I’ve had to step off the sanctuary into the nave to give children and infants I recognized as Eastern Catholics, Holy Communion. Even better would have been for them to alert the celebrant in advance and sit where they would have been in his line. I would NEVER harangue an EMHC in such a setting. They wouldn’t have any idea that many EC infants and some RC infants receive all three sacraments very early in life.

Eucharistic ministers should approach the altar AFTER the Agnus Dei.

Where is that in the GIRM?

Eucharistic ministers (lay people) distributed communication while the priest sat in a chair.

I have seen that in the case of elderly priests with shaky hands.

I’m sorry for what you have endured. Just be careful about understanding the difference of a true liturgical abuse and merely a preference.

 

[Phemie]

Eucharistic ministers should approach the altar AFTER the Agnus Dei.

Where is that in the GIRM?

Actually they shouldn’t approach until the priest has received Communion.
GIRM 162

 

[Erikaspirit16]

No. The Mass begins with “In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” It does not begin with the processional music. If the celebrant wants to give a suitable welcome, it should come before the Mass begins.

Right. so the priest (this was habitual, not a one-off) processed to the altar, and at the altar proceeded to tell his joke. Then “Good morning.” Then “In the name of …”

To me this showed a complete misunderstanding of the Mass as a setting outside of the usual hustle and bustle of the outside world. It’s a ritualistic world, with set actions and speech, different ways of dressing (for the priest and altar servers), etc. I wouldn’t call it an abuse so much as a grating mish mash of the ordinary vs. the ritualistic worlds.