What will make more younger people come to mass?

[dessert]

I am a teenager, and I like TLMs.

Do you think that teenagers should be used more in the liturgy of the mass?

So far I only see the young ones, 10 and under servers and older baby boomers gathering the gifts, ushering ,greeting, reading the Psalms, etc. What a big gap, are you included or this why you have a seperate teen mass or don’t you?

Nice that you have joined us and glad that you don’t feel segregated.
Dessert

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

Make the Western Church like the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches and young people will show up in droves.

Also have younger people face life and death more frequently and they will automatically develop faith in God.

Have all the traditions of Latin masses but keep the language in english, just dont use the ICEL translation.

 

[Saint_Gemma]

Do you think that teenagers should be used more in the liturgy of the mass?

So far I only see the young ones, 10 and under servers and older baby boomers gathering the gifts, ushering ,greeting, reading the Psalms, etc. What a big gap, are you included or this why you have a seperate teen mass or don’t you?

Nice that you have joined us and glad that you don’t feel segregated.
Dessert

I think that having teenage altar boys, greeters, and ushers are a good idea.

 

[Cat]

Wow Cat… not to pick on you, but your post represents much of the “feel good” side of the conversation. You certainly mean well, but question for you, is there ANY difference between what you are espousing and any number of Protestant fellowship get-togethers?
The love-in, entertainment appraoch might temporarily appeal to some, but ultimately it is just another hollow, self-focussed celebration of community. The moment we feel like we need to compete in the fun and friendship game with the bar scene at Mass, we’ve blown it. Patches was on the money in reply 1 - catechesis that teaches teens what really goes on at Mass is the answer.

Rock music and a community celebrating itself only serves to obscure what really happens at Mass. Something incredible and unique happens there. Something that is available nowhere else. Why on earth would we water that down or obscure it with the kind of fun and frinedship activities that young people can find in numerous other places???

That said, there is a place for all of the activities you mention. These things may help to make the parish a home for these kids; a hub for their social life, a place to meet and make friends, to engage in charitable activities, etc… The Mass isn’t the time nor the place though. Remember, the OP is about bringing more young people to Mass, not “keep them coming to church.”

Question to the posters: How many of you know teenagers who have deserted the Catholic Church for a Protestant youth group?

You can talk all you want about TLM and traditions and Latin and chants. In the meantime, your kids are marching to hell.

There are exceptions, kids who are attracted to tradition. But as much as you would like to believe that ALL kids are like this, it just isn’t so.

IMO, we do whatever it takes to get our kids to Mass. We are in a WAR for the souls of our children, and this isn’t the time to natter about whether you prefer chant. The Vatican has encouraged Masses that appeal to a “youth culture.” Those are our “marching orders” as we go to the front lines and try to win back the souls of our teenagers.

I would ask that a mom or dad of a teenager who no longer attends Mass–if your kid came back to Mass because someone invited them to a church party, and then invited them to Mass–would you be angry that it was a “party” that lured your kid back to Mass? Or would you thank God for that party that saved your kid’s life and soul?

Jesus asked the disciples if they wanted to be “fishers of men.” Fishing implies the use of “bait.”

It is worth studying John 4 to learn the “techniques” that Jesus used to attract someone to the faith. For example, He broke tradition by speaking to a woman (and a despised Samaritan at that!). He offered her something that she wanted (water). He talked to her on a personal level about her “love life.”

The results were wondrous: not only did she come to faith, but she brought her whole village to hear Jesus.

Conciliar, I don’t think you read my post at all. I wasn’t talking about parties and rock music, I was talking about tough “action” love. This is what I believe will “lure” kids back to Mass.

I didn’t suggest watering down the Mass with fun and friendship activities. I resent your false accusation. If you read my post, you’ll see that I was talking about OUTSIDE of the Mass. That’s where kids need to be loved back into the Church.

And sir or madam, forgive me for not using the correct “terminology.” Mass vs. Church. With all due respect, it is this kind of nit-picking that drives teenagers (and adults, too) away from formal church.

Finally, I greatly resent what you are implying about Protestants and their Christian communities. How dare you imply that all they do is “party?” There are many Protestants, both clergy and laity, who literally give their lives in service for the Lord Jesus Christ. Show some respect, please, for the martyrs who die and the servants who live for Jesus in the non-Catholic Christian communities. You are ridiculously mistaken if you think that all Protestants do in their churches is “fellowship get-togethers.” That may be the intitial attraction for Catholics and non-Christians, but they don’t stick around for parties. The world throws better parties and plays better music. There is SOMETHING in Protestant churches that makes people stay and commit themselves.

It would be a wise idea to stop dismissing them these Christian communities as "hollow, self-focused, entertainment, "etc. and start examining why someone leaves the True Church for these churches.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

FINAL REMINDER

Please see Post #50

We now have a Life Teen thread going so please save your posts regarding that topic for forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=181646

 

[Soldier4Christ]

Do you think that teenagers should be used more in the liturgy of the mass?

So far I only see the young ones, 10 and under servers and older baby boomers gathering the gifts, ushering ,greeting, reading the Psalms, etc. What a big gap, are you included or this why you have a seperate teen mass or don’t you?

Nice that you have joined us and glad that you don’t feel segregated.
Dessert

Yes! Teenagers and young adults should be more involved in the liturgy. Getting involved gets them committed, which will keep those individuals coming back, plus they are a visual reminder to everyone that Mass is not just for older men and women, but everyone. And if we keep this in mind, and if teenagers/young adults are involved in the liturgy, interacting more with the priest and others involved with Mass (person in charge of music, etc), it will serve to remind them as well. If the homilies relate to this group of people better, they will stay more interested. I do NOT mean watering it down, covering different topics, anything like that. I’m just saying that the priest preaches to his known audience, like any speaker. If he only works with older folks, he’s likely, whether he tries to or not, to come up with a homily that relates more to the older folks rather than the young. This is only one aspect, the most important is families teaching their kids the importance of it all, but there a lot of teens/young adults out there who were not taught, and are just searching.

 

[Conciliar]

Question to the posters: How many of you know teenagers who have deserted the Catholic Church for a Protestant youth group?

You can talk all you want about TLM and traditions and Latin and chants. In the meantime, your kids are marching to hell.

There are exceptions, kids who are attracted to tradition. But as much as you would like to believe that ALL kids are like this, it just isn’t so.

IMO, we do whatever it takes to get our kids to Mass. We are in a WAR for the souls of our children, and this isn’t the time to natter about whether you prefer chant. The Vatican has encouraged Masses that appeal to a “youth culture.” Those are our “marching orders” as we go to the front lines and try to win back the souls of our teenagers.

I would ask that a mom or dad of a teenager who no longer attends Mass–if your kid came back to Mass because someone invited them to a church party, and then invited them to Mass–would you be angry that it was a “party” that lured your kid back to Mass? Or would you thank God for that party that saved your kid’s life and soul?

Jesus asked the disciples if they wanted to be “fishers of men.” Fishing implies the use of “bait.”

It is worth studying John 4 to learn the “techniques” that Jesus used to attract someone to the faith. For example, He broke tradition by speaking to a woman (and a despised Samaritan at that!). He offered her something that she wanted (water). He talked to her on a personal level about her “love life.”

The results were wondrous: not only did she come to faith, but she brought her whole village to hear Jesus.

Conciliar, I don’t think you read my post at all. I wasn’t talking about parties and rock music, I was talking about tough “action” love. This is what I believe will “lure” kids back to Mass.

I didn’t suggest watering down the Mass with fun and friendship activities. I resent your false accusation. If you read my post, you’ll see that I was talking about OUTSIDE of the Mass. That’s where kids need to be loved back into the Church.

And sir or madam, forgive me for not using the correct “terminology.” Mass vs. Church. With all due respect, it is this kind of nit-picking that drives teenagers (and adults, too) away from formal church.

Finally, I greatly resent what you are implying about Protestants and their Christian communities. How dare you imply that all they do is “party?” There are many Protestants, both clergy and laity, who literally give their lives in service for the Lord Jesus Christ. Show some respect, please, for the martyrs who die and the servants who live for Jesus in the non-Catholic Christian communities. You are ridiculously mistaken if you think that all Protestants do in their churches is “fellowship get-togethers.” That may be the intitial attraction for Catholics and non-Christians, but they don’t stick around for parties. The world throws better parties and plays better music. There is SOMETHING in Protestant churches that makes people stay and commit themselves.

It would be a wise idea to stop dismissing them these Christian communities as "hollow, self-focused, entertainment, "etc. and start examining why someone leaves the True Church for these churches.

Now we’re getting somewhere, Cat. This is your answer to my question about the difference between what you espouse as the answer for getting young people to Mass, and a Protestant fellowship gathering? Your reply suggests that you either don’t recognize that there is a tremendous difference between the Mass and a Protestant gathering, or you dismiss it. I’ve asked you this question before… Since you have never answered it, I can’t be sure.

I make no disparaging implictions about Protestants. I will plainly tell you that they do not, even in their most vibrant, well-attended gatherings, have what we have in the Mass. That’s not a slur; it’s a fact.

As for any confusion between “Mass” and “church” and nit picking, your post is all over the place. The OP is about bringing young people to Mass. As I said, there is a place for the hip music and the entertainment and the love-ins, just not at Mass, but outside of it. Maybe we agree here.

I’d still like an answer to my question about the difference between what you promote and a Protestant get-together.

I will answer your question: EVERY single teenager I know (and I know a few) who wandered away from the Church toward a Protestant community (as a young adult) did not have any real understanding that what they felt they were gaining actually paled in comparison to what they left behind. i.e. They didn’t seem to have any real appreciation for the unique glory of the Sacrifice of the Mass. To be very candid, I get the same sense from your posts, Not just here, but in any number of threads.

 

[Walking_Home]

Question to the posters: How many of you know teenagers who have deserted the Catholic Church for a Protestant youth group?

You can talk all you want about TLM and traditions and Latin and chants. In the meantime, your kids are marching to hell.

There are exceptions, kids who are attracted to tradition. But as much as you would like to believe that ALL kids are like this, it just isn’t so.

IMO, we do whatever it takes to get our kids to Mass. We are in a WAR for the souls of our children, and this isn’t the time to natter about whether you prefer chant. The Vatican has encouraged Masses that appeal to a “youth culture.” Those are our “marching orders” as we go to the front lines and try to win back the souls of our teenagers.

I would ask that a mom or dad of a teenager who no longer attends Mass–if your kid came back to Mass because someone invited them to a church party, and then invited them to Mass–would you be angry that it was a “party” that lured your kid back to Mass? Or would you thank God for that party that saved your kid’s life and soul?

Jesus asked the disciples if they wanted to be “fishers of men.” Fishing implies the use of “bait.”

It is worth studying John 4 to learn the “techniques” that Jesus used to attract someone to the faith. For example, He broke tradition by speaking to a woman (and a despised Samaritan at that!). He offered her something that she wanted (water). He talked to her on a personal level about her “love life.”

The results were wondrous: not only did she come to faith, but she brought her whole village to hear Jesus.

Conciliar, I don’t think you read my post at all. I wasn’t talking about parties and rock music, I was talking about tough “action” love. This is what I believe will “lure” kids back to Mass.

I didn’t suggest watering down the Mass with fun and friendship activities. I resent your false accusation. If you read my post, you’ll see that I was talking about OUTSIDE of the Mass. That’s where kids need to be loved back into the Church.

And sir or madam, forgive me for not using the correct “terminology.” Mass vs. Church. With all due respect, it is this kind of nit-picking that drives teenagers (and adults, too) away from formal church.

Finally, I greatly resent what you are implying about Protestants and their Christian communities. How dare you imply that all they do is “party?” There are many Protestants, both clergy and laity, who literally give their lives in service for the Lord Jesus Christ. Show some respect, please, for the martyrs who die and the servants who live for Jesus in the non-Catholic Christian communities. You are ridiculously mistaken if you think that all Protestants do in their churches is “fellowship get-togethers.” That may be the intitial attraction for Catholics and non-Christians, but they don’t stick around for parties. The world throws better parties and plays better music. There is SOMETHING in Protestant churches that makes people stay and commit themselves.

It would be a wise idea to stop dismissing them these Christian communities as "hollow, self-focused, entertainment, "etc. and start examining why someone leaves the True Church for these churches.

---

If I am reading you right—you are expressing a lack of understanding of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and how the Mass (when heaven and earth come together) differs from a protestant worship service.

 

[patches]

Question to the posters: How many of you know teenagers who have deserted the Catholic Church for a Protestant youth group?

You can talk all you want about TLM and traditions and Latin and chants. In the meantime, your kids are marching to hell.

There are exceptions, kids who are attracted to tradition. But as much as you would like to believe that ALL kids are like this, it just isn’t so.

IMO, we do whatever it takes to get our kids to Mass. We are in a WAR for the souls of our children, and this isn’t the time to natter about whether you prefer chant. The Vatican has encouraged Masses that appeal to a “youth culture.” Those are our “marching orders” as we go to the front lines and try to win back the souls of our teenagers.

I would ask that a mom or dad of a teenager who no longer attends Mass–if your kid came back to Mass because someone invited them to a church party, and then invited them to Mass–would you be angry that it was a “party” that lured your kid back to Mass? Or would you thank God for that party that saved your kid’s life and soul?

Jesus asked the disciples if they wanted to be “fishers of men.” Fishing implies the use of “bait.”

It is worth studying John 4 to learn the “techniques” that Jesus used to attract someone to the faith. For example, He broke tradition by speaking to a woman (and a despised Samaritan at that!). He offered her something that she wanted (water). He talked to her on a personal level about her “love life.”

The results were wondrous: not only did she come to faith, but she brought her whole village to hear Jesus.

Conciliar, I don’t think you read my post at all. I wasn’t talking about parties and rock music, I was talking about tough “action” love. This is what I believe will “lure” kids back to Mass.

I didn’t suggest watering down the Mass with fun and friendship activities. I resent your false accusation. If you read my post, you’ll see that I was talking about OUTSIDE of the Mass. That’s where kids need to be loved back into the Church.

And sir or madam, forgive me for not using the correct “terminology.” Mass vs. Church. With all due respect, it is this kind of nit-picking that drives teenagers (and adults, too) away from formal church.

Finally, I greatly resent what you are implying about Protestants and their Christian communities. How dare you imply that all they do is “party?” There are many Protestants, both clergy and laity, who literally give their lives in service for the Lord Jesus Christ. Show some respect, please, for the martyrs who die and the servants who live for Jesus in the non-Catholic Christian communities. You are ridiculously mistaken if you think that all Protestants do in their churches is “fellowship get-togethers.” That may be the intitial attraction for Catholics and non-Christians, but they don’t stick around for parties. The world throws better parties and plays better music. There is SOMETHING in Protestant churches that makes people stay and commit themselves.

It would be a wise idea to stop dismissing them these Christian communities as "hollow, self-focused, entertainment, "etc. and start examining why someone leaves the True Church for these churches.

You made a number of very good points. I agree that we should imitate our separated bretheren in the things they are doing right, and one of those things is their undeniable commitment to nurturing the faith of their youth.

Still, not a few of the posters on this topic have been greatly sensitized by many years of being led by those who no longer believe in the Catholic faith or the real Presence of Jesus. Often, we are quick to imitate our non-Catholic bretheren in the wrong ways, ones that will diminish and distract from a full understanding of what happens at the Eucharist. Yet we need to be loyal only to the truth, and the truth is we’re simply not doing a very good job with our young people, period.

As for “tradition,” a strong distinction needs to be made between the small “t” and large “T” versions, and I think that’s where much of the sensitivity (rightly) lies. We certainly don’t want to have a “your gonna take your medicine and you’re going like it” attitude toward our youth. At the same time, I think there is a real and legitimate fear that the same confused and confusing voices who in the post Vat II era caused so much damage to Catholic worship will prevail in their own particular march to hell. I think it’s a mistake to take a “do whatever it takes” approach, particularly if it caters to the culture at the expense of the beauty and solemnity of the mass.

The question raised in this thread is a vitally important one to the future of the church. My suggestion would be to take a “do whatever we can” approach, rather than a “whatever it takes,” one, to draw youth to the truth and beauty of the faith. The answer to this is to address a problem whose roots are far deeper than liturgical window dressing, as you rightly point out.

Too many of us have a lack of commitment beyond the minimum requirements, – this is far more devastating to our youth than the “palatability” of mass. Case in point: in my parish, we have no trouble finding basketball coaches for the grade school teams, but we struggle mightily to fill CCD and RCIA vacancies. Ordering adult priorities so that youth groups will not flounder for lack of interest and leadership would be a good place to start.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

As I have stated over and over again-
We need to make the Mass itself traditonal, and not try imitate our seperated brethern,
P&W has it’s place, just not within the context of Mass. Have a P&W time before the Mass to get spirituality kicked up, segway into the Rosary (perhaps even sing it, like on the Dana and Fr. Scallion CD?), and then into Sacred silence.

I can’t think of anything that would be more fun, for me at least.
Then, go to some sort of “Sunday School” meeting afterward, and elaborate on the readings, have Father come in and give an extended homily and discuss the readings, Church traditon, etc… Like RCIA- only better!

I think that by using the above formula, and perhaps using the Latin NO to epmphasize the Holiness and Specialness of the Mass would be a wonderful way for youngins, like myself, to come back to the Church.

I am, personally, a bizarre mixture of Charismatic and Traditionalist, and I think that scares some people. But I think that is what my generation is- a mixture of the best of V2 (and sometimes the worst) and the desire to return to pre-V2.

 

[4unborn]

I sent the following to the National Catholic Register (it was printed in the August 5,2007 issue):

Regarding “Pope Sparks Mass Revival” (July 15):

The apostolic letter of Pope Benedict XVI instructs a parish priest to accept the requests of a “stable group of faithful” to celebrate the Tridentine Mass. However, it does not say that a pastor must wait until this happens.

Many young people do not attend Mass. If the Tridentine Mass were celebrated, perhaps some would come out of curiosity. Once the experience its richness and beauty, they might come again and again.

 

[latinmasslover]

what are some suggestions to how we can make the Mass more relevent to this younger generation? what can we do to encourage youger people to be more engaged and envolved in the Mass?

Bring back the Tridentine Mass. They say that of the Christians who leave for the New Age movemnent, Catholics are the largest group…lack of ritual, which is discovered in Paganism, as well as respect for the holy. Speaking as a former Pagan, I totally agree. Although Novus Ordo Masses can, and are, celebrated in a holy manner by some priests, everything about the Tridentine just shouts “on your knees, be reverent!” More young people are attending the Latin Masses, joining the more Traditional Orders in the Church…I think that says it all. Praise God for the Pope’s recent Motu Proprio!

 

[Sarabande]

As others have commented, good catechesis. But I don’t see it as just something to focus on younger people. There also needs to be focus on the entire family and how they view the mass.

There seems to be some sort of disconnect when it comes to the young and their parents attending mass. Our parents’ generation had been “disenchanted” by something. Many do not hold attending mass as something important and special beyond everything else. Perhaps it was the 60s and 70s and the cultural revolution. Perhaps it was the way Vatican II was interpreted or misinterpreted. When a child or young adult sees that, they will also follow suit, unless they find their way back to attending mass regularly or to the church on their own.

As a child and teenager, I was always searching for something more out of mass. It just didn’t seem like enough emphasis or importance were placed in it during mass. I grew up in a familiy that attended mass every Sunday, but my parents’ catechesis wasn’t that great. They did their best. We were sent to Catholic schools most of our school lives. Religious education wasn’t that good either.

They had LifeTeen masses in our area, which were initially a draw for my friends and I because we thought there would be something good and interesting for people our age. To our disappointment, the masses were too hunky-dory and the after mass religious activities were too dumbed down or just superficial - fun, but nothing to really sink our teeth into in terms of growing in our faith. After a year, my brother, friends and I stopped going. The people meant very well. All of the volunteers were young adults in their 20s and 30s and really were energetic and I’m guessing spiritual as well. I’m sure there may have been some peers who did get something out of it, so I’m not putting it down, but for myself, my siblings and our own friends it wasn’t enough.

What kept me continue attending mass, was a constant yearning for something more and volunteering whereever I was. I usually volunteered my musical abililties. But I believe what made me really stay was doing my own personal reading up on my faith as a Catholic to understanding it more. Also, finding parishes that truly did keep the mass as something very important and special - giving the best that they had in all aspects of the liturgy. Mostly - the stop to dumbing everything down for the mass. You can still keep it intellectually and spiritually “high” for all ages without condescending or dumbing it down. How we go about that takes special and dedicated people.

Leonard Bernstein - genius that he was in conducting and music - was able to captivate his young audiences not by talking down or dumbing down, but by bringing everyone “up” to his level. His old programs for the young are amazing to watch. In a way, that is how I think mass should be… (not entertainment, of course) raising everyone up to a transcedant level so that they can feel and understand how important and special the sacrifice of the mass is - not just something that is either fun and energetic or boring and pendantic. Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m sure others would disagree, but it’s only an opinion or idea - something which made total sense to me when I was in my early 20s and now. I hope to raise my future family with a deeper understanding than I had growing up.

 

[Imryl]

Q: What will make more younger people come to Mass?
A: Age and something that comes with it, Wisdom.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

As others have commented, good catechesis. But I don’t see it as just something to focus on younger people. There also needs to be focus on the entire family and how they view the mass.

There seems to be some sort of disconnect when it comes to the young and their parents attending mass. Our parents’ generation had been “disenchanted” by something. Many do not hold attending mass as something important and special beyond everything else. Perhaps it was the 60s and 70s and the cultural revolution. Perhaps it was the way Vatican II was interpreted or misinterpreted. When a child or young adult sees that, they will also follow suit, unless they find their way back to attending mass regularly or to the church on their own.

As a child and teenager, I was always searching for something more out of mass. It just didn’t seem like enough emphasis or importance were placed in it during mass. I grew up in a familiy that attended mass every Sunday, but my parents’ catechesis wasn’t that great. They did their best. We were sent to Catholic schools most of our school lives. Religious education wasn’t that good either.

They had LifeTeen masses in our area, which were initially a draw for my friends and I because we thought there would be something good and interesting for people our age. To our disappointment, the masses were too hunky-dory and the after mass religious activities were too dumbed down or just superficial - fun, but nothing to really sink our teeth into in terms of growing in our faith. After a year, my brother, friends and I stopped going. The people meant very well. All of the volunteers were young adults in their 20s and 30s and really were energetic and I’m guessing spiritual as well. I’m sure there may have been some peers who did get something out of it, so I’m not putting it down, but for myself, my siblings and our own friends it wasn’t enough.

What kept me continue attending mass, was a constant yearning for something more and volunteering whereever I was. I usually volunteered my musical abililties. But I believe what made me really stay was doing my own personal reading up on my faith as a Catholic to understanding it more. Also, finding parishes that truly did keep the mass as something very important and special - giving the best that they had in all aspects of the liturgy. Mostly - the stop to dumbing everything down for the mass. You can still keep it intellectually and spiritually “high” for all ages without condescending or dumbing it down. How we go about that takes special and dedicated people.

Leonard Bernstein - genius that he was in conducting and music - was able to captivate his young audiences not by talking down or dumbing down, but by bringing everyone “up” to his level. His old programs for the young are amazing to watch. In a way, that is how I think mass should be… (not entertainment, of course) raising everyone up to a transcedant level so that they can feel and understand how important and special the sacrifice of the mass is - not just something that is either fun and energetic or boring and pendantic. Perhaps I’m wrong and I’m sure others would disagree, but it’s only an opinion or idea - something which made total sense to me when I was in my early 20s and now. I hope to raise my future family with a deeper understanding than I had growing up.

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 

[Cat]

Now we’re getting somewhere, Cat. This is your answer to my question about the difference between what you espouse as the answer for getting young people to Mass, and a Protestant fellowship gathering? Your reply suggests that you either don’t recognize that there is a tremendous difference between the Mass and a Protestant gathering, or you dismiss it. I’ve asked you this question before… Since you have never answered it, I can’t be sure.

I make no disparaging implictions about Protestants. I will plainly tell you that they do not, even in their most vibrant, well-attended gatherings, have what we have in the Mass. That’s not a slur; it’s a fact.

As for any confusion between “Mass” and “church” and nit picking, your post is all over the place. The OP is about bringing young people to Mass. As I said, there is a place for the hip music and the entertainment and the love-ins, just not at Mass, but outside of it. Maybe we agree here.

I’d still like an answer to my question about the difference between what you promote and a Protestant get-together.

I will answer your question: EVERY single teenager I know (and I know a few) who wandered away from the Church toward a Protestant community (as a young adult) did not have any real understanding that what they felt they were gaining actually paled in comparison to what they left behind. i.e. They didn’t seem to have any real appreciation for the unique glory of the Sacrifice of the Mass. To be very candid, I get the same sense from your posts, Not just here, but in any number of threads.

Conciliar, it is slightly off-topic, but I’ll try to answer your question. I thought I had PMed you months ago, but perhaps it got lost in the shuffle.

Walking_Home, I hope this answers your question, too.

The Holy Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary.

This “event” is outside of human time and space, and is celebrated for all eternity in heaven by the angels and saints, who take part in the heavenly, eternal liturgy. This is described in the Book of Revelation.

When we attend Mass, we actually enter into this heavenly liturgy, and join our prayers and songs with those of the Church Triumphant. We are actually present at the crucifixion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

The priest acts in the person of Christ, and offers prayers which result in the changing of Bread and Wine into the actual Body and Blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus told the Apostles to do this in the New Testament at His Last Supper, and only priests ordained in the Catholic Church have the authority given by God to offer this sacrifice.

Jesus actually is present during the Mass, in True Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, as real as He was to the disciples when He was on earth. It is a “sacramental presence,” veiled in a sacrament, but it is a True Presence, nonetheless.

Conciliar and Walking_Home, when I started attending Mass, I recognized Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. I knew it was Him.

At Mass, we Catholic Christians are given an invitation to eat the Body and drink the Blood of the Lord Jesus, as He commanded us to do in order to have life in us. This is how we “receive” Jesus, by eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood given in sacrifice on the cross. Through eating and drinking His Body and Blood, we receive amazing grace that helps us to follow Christ and become sinless saints who can hope to be achieve the salvation of our souls.

This is very different than a non-catholic (or Protestant) “worship service.” (I was an evangelical Protestant for over 40 years.) Most worship services include praise and worship, teaching, and evangelism.

In a worship service, Christians join in corporate worship of Jesus through congregational singing and solo/ensemble/instrumental music. Christians receive teaching from the Bible, usually from a pastor or teacher, that helps them to live more closely to Jesus and do His will. And finally, Christians evangelize by reaching out to those who don’t know Jesus and inviting them to become Christians, too, by “asking Jesus into their heart to be their personal Savior.”

Although Jesus is present in Christians during a non-Catholic worship service, He is not present Bodily as He is in the Blessed Sacrament during a Catholic Mass.

And because the non-Catholic worship service does not have Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, they can only offer a “faith” Jesus to people–you can only receive Him by praying and trusting that He hears the prayer and comes into your life.

This is not Biblical at all, but for over five centuries, this is what Protestants have taught–a “faith alone” Christianity. It is a sadly incomplete Christianity, and as I said, not Biblical in that it leaves out the full Gospel that has been passed down to us by the apostles and their successors.

Do I understand the Mass?

Now back to topic.

I am NOT suggesting that the Mass be changed to entice young people or any people to come to “church.” If I gave that impression in my posts, I can only say that I was unclear in my writing and I apologize.

The liturgy of the Mass is determined by our Church, not by “we the people.” Mass cannot and should not be changed, no matter how good and pure the motive.

However, the Church has approved different “forms” of the Mass (I’m not sure if I’m using the correct word.) One of the approved Masses is Life Teen.

The Church also approves of the use of vernacular language and music forms that fit the culture, including “youth” music. The requirement is that the music is “reverent.” Although many people have a difficult time finding “rock” music and other forms of cultural music (e.g., guitars in the Latino parishes) “reverent,” that is just a personal opinion not backed up by the Church. Music does not have to be organ and chant to be “reverent.”

The Church gives the local Bishops a lot of authority to determine various practices during Mass. Indeed, there are many parts of the Mass that are fixed, but there are also parts of the Mass where freedom is given to the local parish, e.g., the music.

I think that those who criticize these Church-approved Masses are in danger of speaking rebelliously against the Church itself. We need to submit ourselves to the Christ-given authority of the Catholic Church and accept what they give us.

If the Church has said, “OK,” it’s OK. You may not like it, but you really shouldn’t criticize publically what the Church has OKed.

Once again, I do NOT advocate adding or subtracting anything to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in order to attract young people. Only the Church can do this.

What I have tried to say is that we need to work OUTSIDE of the Church and OUTSIDE of the Mass to show love to young people, and in this way, entice them back to the Mass.

If the young people are never in Church, then it won’t be useful to have “Lifenights” or “parties” or “love ins” or whatever at the church building. They won’t be there!

Instead, we must be willing to go out into the world and “preach the Gospel”, either in words or even better, in deeds. Many of us are in the position to do this because we work with young people and can be used by Christ as His Hands, Feet, Mouth, and Voice.

I do think that it might be possible to lure young people back to church by offering them the opportunity to participate in charitable events in the church. In an earlier post, I gave an example of loading donations for the poor onto trucks. There are many other possibilities of charitable outreaches that would involve young people. When young people are involved in church life and feel like they have a place and a “job,” they are more likely to return week after week.

And I also think it is possible that young people might be lured back by “socials, parties,” etc., although I am a bit skeptical because the world can throw a better party than a church. But I think it’s worth a try, especially with middle-school aged teenagers.

Again, I am NOT suggesting that we turn the Mass into a social or party. I am suggesting that various people who have been given spiritual gifts of evangelism can use “parties” as a tool to help encourage young people to get re-connected with the Church and eventually, the Mass.

Even though these young people are coming back to the Church through the “back door,” so to speak, through charitable outreaches or parties, hopefully, eventually, these young people might decide to go back to Mass as they observe the love of the mature Christians around them and realize that they, too, need the Savior.

I hope this all makes sense and seems wise.

 

[Walking_Home]

I am NOT suggesting that the Mass be changed to entice young people or any people to come to “church.” If I gave that impression in my posts, I can only say that I was unclear in my writing and I apologize.

The liturgy of the Mass is determined by our Church, not by “we the people.” Mass cannot and should not be changed, no matter how good and pure the motive.

However, the Church has approved different “forms” of the Mass (I’m not sure if I’m using the correct word.) One of the approved Masses is Life Teen.

The Church also approves of the use of vernacular language and music forms that fit the culture, including “youth” music. The requirement is that the music is “reverent.” Although many people have a difficult time finding “rock” music and other forms of cultural music (e.g., guitars in the Latino parishes) “reverent,” that is just a personal opinion not backed up by the Church. Music does not have to be organ and chant to be “reverent.”

The Church gives the local Bishops a lot of authority to determine various practices during Mass. Indeed, there are many parts of the Mass that are fixed, but there are also parts of the Mass where freedom is given to the local parish, e.g., the music.

I think that those who criticize these Church-approved Masses are in danger of speaking rebelliously against the Church itself. We need to submit ourselves to the Christ-given authority of the Catholic Church and accept what they give us.

.

---

Even the Life Teen Masses need to abide by the liturgical norms. Just because they are geared to the teens does not mean they have the freedom to do what they want.

One more thing—you also have a mis-understanding as to how much authority a bishop actually has when it comes to the regulation of the Mass. The bishops do not have the authority to manipulate the Mass as wish—they too must abide by the directives from Rome.

RS–2004

[114.] “At Sunday Masses in parishes, insofar as parishes are ‘Eucharistic communities’, it is customary to find different groups, movements, associations, and even the smaller religious communities present in the parish.”202] While it is permissible that Mass should be celebrated for particular groups according to the norm of law,[203] these groups are nevertheless not exempt from the faithful observance of the liturgical norms.

[27.] As early as the year 1970, the Apostolic See announced the cessation of all experimentation as regards the celebration of Holy Mass[62] and reiterated the same in 1988.[63] Accordingly, individual Bishops and their Conferences do not have the faculty to permit experimentation with liturgical texts or the other matters that are prescribed in the liturgical books. In order to carry out experimentation of this kind in the future, the permission of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments is required. It must be in writing, and it is to be requested by the Conference of Bishops. In fact, it will not be granted without serious reason. As regards projects of inculturation in liturgical matters, the particular norms that have been established are strictly and comprehensively to be observed.[64]

 

[Cat]

Walking_Home, I absolutely agree. Life Teen is not exempt from following the liturgy. And thankfully, the Life Teen Mass in our parish follows the liturgy to the letter, and is very reverent, even though a rock band provides the music.

Forgive me if I am incorrect, but you and Conciliar seem to think that I am one of these Catholics that wants to change the Mass into a big, happy-clappy wine-and-cheese party with a folk-rock band singing ditties while we all just hug each other and listen to pithy quotations from the Beatles and Rosie O’Donnell.

Absolutely not! One of my many reasons for converting to Catholicism was the authority of the Church, given by Jesus Christ Himself. I feel very secure in this Church because of this authority.

I have NO plans to rebel against the Authority of the Church and try to tell them the “right” way (AKA my way) to do Mass!

This is one of the reasons why I dislike it when Catholics criticize things that the Church has approved! It makes me very worried when Catholics say things like, “Guitars shouldn’t be allowed in church.” Well, the Church says guitars are permitted. So why do Catholics continue to rag against their Church?! It makes our Church look pretty divided.

In my Protestant churches, we were free to be our own authorities, and that worked out just dandy as long as everyone agreed. But when you had disagreements, then it became a “survival of the fittest.” The person with the most seniority in the church, or with the loudest voice, or with the most money, was the one who got it done “their way.”

This was not a comfortable way to live! (And it wasn’t “Biblical” either. Jesus established a Church and put it in charge. He didn’t put a Book in charge.)

Also, when it came to worship services, we were very much at the mercy of the pastor(s). If the pastor was a good 'un, then we had great worship services. But if the pastor wasn’t a good 'un, worship services were not so great, and people left the church and then the pastor got kicked out and another pastor hired and the whole thing started over.

This is yet another excellent reason for not changing the Mass. If a dynamic, colorful, charismatic (Kennedy, not glosslalia!) priest is in charge and does all kinds of “innovations” to the Mass and tons of new people start coming to Mass, what happens when that priest is re-assigned? Probably all the people will leave because their reasons for being at Mass were not good!

The Mass is the Mass, and it should remain the Mass. It is the central “act” of our Christian life, and it is where we go for “feeding” on Jesus Christ, the Eucharist. It is our opportunity to experience heaven on this earth.

But I say that everything outside of the Mass is fair game for those who are trying to attract people, especially young people, back to the Mass! Parties, skit nights, field trips, book clubs, dinner clubs (yep, our church has one!), drama teams, rock music concerts in the church parking lot–whatever it takes!

Back when I was growing up (Protestant), my parents bought us Catholic school readers (Streets and Roads, circa sometime in the 1950s!). One of the stories was about St. John Bosco, who entertained the children with juggling and tricks…until the Mass. Then he told the children, “It’s time for Mass. No more tricks.” And the children FOLLOWED St. John Bosco into the Church! His “tricks” had won their confidence and trust, and they wanted to be with this saint and learn more about the God that he told them about while he was doing his “tricks.”

That story made an impression on me! I learned “needs based evangelism” (a major Protestant "tool) from a Catholic reader!

Of course, by “everything,” I mean everything that isn’t sinful or sinful-appearing. I wouldn’t want to see a Church sponsor a bikini mud-wrestling night for the Youth Group, although I suspect there would be the biggest crowd in history, and lots of them wouldn’t be teenagers! Echh!

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

We have good reason to be concerned about our children’s faith, but the thing to do is shore up the foundation, not dress the windows. If you take a good look at trends in the non-denom evangelical churches, you get a picture of where “designer” worship eventually leads.
The music is judged more by emotional/entertainment/trendiness value than sound doctrine; iconoclasm is raised to an art form —to the point where it’s hard to find a cross anywhere on the property (that symbol brings up so many negative feelings, don’t cha know); even the churches names are de-Christianized, with generic monikers like “Life Center;” preaching is judged more by cleverness, eloquence, and stage presence than by adherence to the truth; churches become high tech theaters with booming sound systems and stage lighting that would do Hollywood proud; preachers deftly avoid any scripture that might expose a subject (sin?) that might be controversial or buck the current cultural trends. Yes, people are flocking to churches following these trends, no doubt making it a wide path to follow.

That’s a pretty good laundry list of tactics that put butts in seats but do an ultimate disservice to everyone. We can hopefully assume that no Catholics would ever try to do them all and even place certain ones entirely off limits, but nevertheless we do see some of them popping up and they are all bad. People come in but don’t get fed.

The concept/culture of a youth mass is one that is approved and encouraged by the vatican. Its amazing here that so many people think that its bad. As I’ve posted before. … it has brought the teens back to mass, and then they have brought their parents back to mass.

Well, LifeTeen is an approved program, but beyond that your statement is a little too broad to do much with. What exactly is implied by the concept and culture of a youth Mass? Whatever adaptations the Vatican may or may not have approved, these certainly stop short of many things others might associate with the term “youth Mass.” And beyond that, can you substantiate your claim that certain things are not just “approved” - meaning in a liturgical context “allowed” - but also “encouraged”? Quite a bit of what goes on in youth Masses I have experienced, especially the music, would be frowned upon by Benedict XVI, even if he hasn’t tried to institute any draconian measures to get everyone practicing his ideal.

We spoke later in the day and she said she would have more respect for the church if it reminded her to be a better person rather than the feelgood homilies we get each Sunday.
Young people relish a challenge. They want a church that lives the Gospel and spells out, no holds barred, the message of our Lord. They know instinctively when someone truly believes the Churches teaching and will respect that person and be drawn to him.

I think the Mass needs to be done in all of it’s Mysterious and Majestic Glory.

…

Don’t assume that the teens are stupid, don’t care, or need to be pandered to. Don’t dumb it down. Give it hard, give it straight, and state the Truth that the Church teaches.

…They felt, as I stated before, intellectually insulted and spiritually unfulfilled. There are college aged friends of mine who abandoned LT because they felt insulted by the program and the “dumbed down curriculum” (direct quote)

MAKE SURE you are challenging their faith. Make them go search on their own, and make them understand the WHY and the HOW.

This would be precisley my advice from my own relatively recent experience (I’m only 24). All through my high school and college years I was presented with programs “geared toward me” that were horribly insulting. I was treated like someone who was incapable of understanding the Faith and would probably reject it if I heard it. Then I was subjected to liturgies that many people my age enjoyed but that were the exact opposite of what I needed to quench my spiritual thirst - they gave me hugs, clapping, rock music (no kidding, like Phish and Dave Matthews), no kneeling, when all I wanted was transcendence, a taste of the Divine. Granted, lots of people loved what they had to offer, but what they had to offer didn’t change them. Even the choir directors were binge drinkers who slept around. Tinkering with the liturgy doesn’t bring people to the faith, it just brings them to a substitute for it.

A second area of insult was actually more one of betrayal, when I found out that my priests and teachers had been withholding so much of Catholic teaching and tradition from me. All the things that never get taught because they think people don’t want to hear, well, I wished I had heard. And when I finally did I felt so betrayed.

Now, as some have pointed out, this doesn’t exclude being creative outside the liturgy. But being creative doesn’t mean presenting the faith as something congruent with “cool” culture. That’s where the biggest part of the challenge comes in. People will die for an exclamation point, but they won’t lift a finger for a question mark. We need to offer the Catholic faith and its traditional life in all its fulness. We need to offer it as something countercultural. We need to not shy away from its distinctiveness. All the talk of how much we share with our Protestant brethren and how much we can do together may have a purpose, but it’s certainly not going to, on its own, draw people to the ONE true Church of Christ. Part of what His Holiness is now trying to do is restore Catholic identity so we all will have something distinctive we are proud to be a part of and pass on to others.

It is worth studying John 4 to learn the “techniques” that Jesus used to attract someone to the faith. For example, He broke tradition by speaking to a woman (and a despised Samaritan at that!). He offered her something that she wanted (water). He talked to her on a personal level about her “love life.”

The results were wondrous: not only did she come to faith, but she brought her whole village to hear Jesus.

I’ve seen some hold up Jesus as an example of what I might call “accomodation,” but I would call what he did “challenging outreach.” Sure he ate with the tax collectors and prostitutes, but do you think when he was sitting with them he was just chatting them up with a little “How’s work?” He didn’t actually chat with the woman at the well about her love life, he confronted her with her screwed up marriage situation and this evidenced His power to her (Jn 4:39 “He told me everything I ever did.”) He did what he had to do to get to people, but while he was there with them he gave them a radical challenge and wouldn’t back away from telling the whole truth. When he told them about His self-gift in the Eucharist, many left muttering “This saying is hard, who can accept it?” It is those hard sayings that show people the full beautiful love of Christ.

However, the Church has approved different “forms” of the Mass (I’m not sure if I’m using the correct word.) One of the approved Masses is Life Teen.

The Church also approves of the use of vernacular language and music forms that fit the culture, including “youth” music. The requirement is that the music is “reverent.” Although many people have a difficult time finding “rock” music and other forms of cultural music (e.g., guitars in the Latino parishes) “reverent,” that is just a personal opinion not backed up by the Church. Music does not have to be organ and chant to be “reverent.”

The requirement for music in the liturgy is not that it be reverent, it is that it be sacred. Cdl. Ratzinger had a great treatment of the difference between “religious” and “sacred” music in his The Spirit of the Liturgy. Music can be about all the right topics and be performed with a very prayerful intention, but if it moves the passions (here we would be thinking emotions) more than the intellect and will, it’s not suited to the liturgy. I would say generally that any song people might describe as “exciting” probably doesn’t belong in the Mass.

 

[chicago]

Music can be about all the right topics and be performed with a very prayerful intention, but if it moves the passions (here we would be thinking emotions) more than the intellect and will, it’s not suited to the liturgy. I would say generally that any song people might describe as “exciting” probably doesn’t belong in the Mass.

I would disagree. Catholicism is the most “aesthetic” of the religions and has a distinct respect for how art and music moves people emotionally to deeper faith and prayer.