What will the Church be like in 50 years?

[Dempsey1919]

What will the Church be like in 50 years?

The Church has underwent massive changes in the last forty years since the close of the Second Vatican Council. The liturgy and Sacraments changed, modern churches replaced older gothic styled buildings, the papal coronation was abolished, and many religious no longer wear the habit. The external face of Catholicism is very different from what it was in the 1940’s and 1950’s. The faith is the same, but our expression of it is vastly different.

Most of these changes were very rapid. They happened practically over night, especially when you consider that things usually change very slowly within the Church. I don’t think the Council was responsible for most of the changes. It was more cultural than anything else. The 1960’s came along, the liberals grew in number, and they were able to drown out the voices of the conservatives who tried to fight for continuity and organic growth. The liberals changed the way we worshipped, changed the way we dressed, and changed the way our churches looked.

Things will never go back to the way they were but I hope we can reclaim some of the things we’ve lost. Thankfully, we have the Tridentine Mass and Sacraments back. We also have a Church which is growing thanks to African evangelisation. The current Magisterium are also attempting to halt many of the abuses we have experienced over the last decades.

With this in mind, what do you think the Church will be like in 50 years?

• How will the liturgy be different?
• Will we have married Priests?
• Will the Tridentine Mass movement grow?
• What will happen to the liberals? Have they had their day?
• Will a new Mass be promulgated?
• Will newer gothic churches be built?
• Will the Church grow or decline?

These are just some questions to consider. Don’t limit your response to answering these questions. Please share your vision for the Church in the future.

 

[TheDoctor]

What will the Church be like in 50 years?..The liturgy and Sacraments changed…

Which sacraments changed? I am really racking my brain here but I still come up with baptism, communion, penance, holy orders, marriage, confirmation and last rites. Now, I know that the names may have changed or the specific rubrics of how we celebrate them may have changed, but I really am at a loss to see which sacraments have changed.

How will the liturgy be different? Hopefully a better latin translation for use at the OF and maybe an english Divine Liturgy after we re-unite with our Eastern brothers and sisters.

Will we have married Priests? We already do. Do you mean “will the Latin Rite lift the celebacy discipline” - I don’t think so.

Will the Tridentine Mass movement grow? I hope so for the sake of those who love it.

What will happen to the liberals? Have they had their day? There will always be liberals and conservatives. What I am sure of is that you will still be complaining about them on the forums.

Will a new Mass be promulgated? I don’t think so.

Will newer gothic churches be built? Only if folks want them and are willing to pay for it. What I really hope is that we re-evangalize and take back the inner cities and re-open all those beautiful chruches we have closed.

Will the Church grow or decline? Grow baby, in love and hope and charity and faith. Over the next fifty years countries will come and go and governments will come and go but the Church will live (see, I know, cause Jesus told me so).

 

[Dempsey1919]

The essence of the sacraments remain the same. They still confer the same graces as they have always done. However, the way we express the sacraments have changed. Baptism is different, for example, the removal of the blessed salt. Another example is the changes in the way Holy Orders is administered. However, this is beside the point. What I want to know is what you think the Church will be like in the future?

 

[palmas85]

What will the Church be like in 50 years?

The Church has underwent massive changes in the last forty years since the close of the Second Vatican Council. The liturgy and Sacraments changed, modern churches replaced older gothic styled buildings, the papal coronation was abolished, and many religious no longer wear the habit. The external face of Catholicism is very different from what it was in the 1940’s and 1950’s. The faith is the same, but our expression of it is vastly different.

Most of these changes were very rapid. They happened practically over night, especially when you consider that things usually change very slowly within the Church. I don’t think the Council was responsible for most of the changes. It was more cultural than anything else. The 1960’s came along, the liberals grew in number, and they were able to drown out the voices of the conservatives who tried to fight for continuity and organic growth. The liberals changed the way we worshipped, changed the way we dressed, and changed the way our churches looked.

Things will never go back to the way they were but I hope we can reclaim some of the things we’ve lost. Thankfully, we have the Tridentine Mass and Sacraments back. We also have a Church which is growing thanks to African evangelisation. The current Magisterium are also attempting to halt many of the abuses we have experienced over the last decades.

With this in mind, what do you think the Church will be like in 50 years?

• How will the liturgy be different?
• Will we have married Priests?
• Will the Tridentine Mass movement grow?
• What will happen to the liberals? Have they had their day?
• Will a new Mass be promulgated?
• Will newer gothic churches be built?
• Will the Church grow or decline?

These are just some questions to consider. Don’t limit your response to answering these questions. Please share your vision for the Church in the future.

I think a great deal depends on what happens in the next ten to fifteen years or so, particularly in the United States and Europe. Europe as to a lrge degre in many places simply abandoned catholicism completely and what remains in some places is virtually unrecognizable as catholicism.

In the US, if virtually unlimited immigration from Mexico and Central America remains at current levels the Church will grow but only until these immigrants start converting to evangelical Christianity as they are doing in those countries in record numbers. That trend hasn’t really took off yet but appears to be doing so. I remember when I first as a Police officer, probably at least 80% of latinos we apprehended identified themselves as Catholics. When I retired that percentage haddropped to about 40% and even less among those who had been in the US for a while.

We alraedy have some married priests, although I don’t really see that trend growing as conversions drop as they have been recently. As far as the Church allowing them again, it would be hard given the dogmatic implications of the issue.

\Traditional movement, grow? Yes, but there is a definite danger of a schism I think. Not so much from any desore on the part of the Traditionals but more as a reaction against the recalcitrance of the Bishops who continue to disobey Rome.

Liberals are far from finished, are well educated, motivated and hate traditionalism in all its forms. They also occupy the seats of power in many areas and parishes, particularly in the areas of catechisis, CCA and RCIA.

New mass promulgated, yes, I think that will happen in the next twenty years or so.

New Gothic Churches built. That goes against the current emphasis on Christ present in the community. Thats the reason they changed the churches in the first place, to more accurately represent Christ as being present as opposed to being in the heavens. It is all very symbolic.

Grow or decline. In the west I would have to say decline. Heck in the US the majority of Catholics now pretty much pay lip service to the Church anyway. How can we say otherwise when almost all parishes report Mass attendance figures at 30% and below those registered at the Parish? In the third world I would say grow and grow exponentially. In all reality, I fell that is where the future of catholicism more than likely lies. The third world.

 

[IrishBrigade]

Liberals are far from finished, are well educated, motivated and hate traditionalism in all its forms. They also occupy the seats of power in many areas and parishes, particularly in the areas of catechisis, CCA and RCIA.

New mass promulgated, yes, I think that will happen in the next twenty years or so…

…Liberals are indeed intrenched in the Church; I’m not saying they are the devil incarnate or anything like that, but they have imported ideas from the socio-culture, as they relate to the established traditions…I’m engaged in RCIA, and I don’t see very much inflitration into the adult catechesis…we are blessed with some very good faith formulators…our DRE did get into a spirited defense of immigration with me, and I got the impression she was following the latest Church trend on liberalized views of illegal aliens, and I gave as good as I got…I am mulling the idea of becoming a catechist at the eighth grade level and participating directly in the confirmation process, and as such I would get a better idea of liberal intrusion as I stuided the texts…I suspect it’s quite prevalent…

…as far as a new mass being promulgated, maybe…hopefully something that would devalue folk mass and hand holding and all that sort of thing, and treat the liturgy as it’s meant to be treated…as praise and glory of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…but the NO in itself is not inimical, its irreverent and perfunctory celebration is what hurts…

 

[Dempsey1919]

Liberals are far from finished, are well educated, motivated and hate traditionalism in all its forms. They also occupy the seats of power in many areas and parishes, particularly in the areas of catechisis, CCA and RCIA.

This is the thing I don’t understand. Why do they hate traditionalism? Don’t they know that this is the brand of spirituality that nourished the Roman Rite for thousands of years? I really can’t figure out why they are so set against anything traditional.

I completely agree with you. The liberal minded Catholics do seem to occupy many prominent places within parish life. It makes me wonder why conservative/traditionalist Catholics don’t try to get more actively involved in parish life.

The only way to effect a positive change would be to ensure that faithful Catholics start being more vocal in parish affairs. I’m probably beating a dead horse but it would be great if more traditionalist catholics stood up and were counted.

…as far as a new mass being promulgated, maybe…hopefully something that would devalue folk mass and hand holding and all that sort of thing, and treat the liturgy as it’s meant to be treated…as praise and glory of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit…but the NO in itself is not inimical, its irreverent and perfunctory celebration is what hurts…

I don’t see a new Mass being promulgated without cause. Something would have to happen to necessitate a new Mass. The liberals after Vatican II used the Council as an excuse to change the Mass, and I think there would have to be another excuse for another to be written.

However, I do hope that the Pauline Mass will be revised to bring it more in line with tradition. It would be great if prayers and gestures from the Tridentine Mass were incorporated into the new Mass. The Kyrie sung in the original greek would be a good example.

Europe as to a lrge degre in many places simply abandoned catholicism completely and what remains in some places is virtually unrecognizable as catholicism.

Agreed. I am British and in my experience, the Church desperately needs rejuvenation. We need more young Catholics. And the only way to start this rejuvenation would be through active evangelisation. The problem is, who would be willing to evangelise the youth? Without sounding negative, I can only see bad things for the Church here in Europe. I wish we had a more Americanised opinion towards religion in general.

 

[ethelzguy]

This is the thing I don’t understand. Why do they hate traditionalism? Don’t they know that this is the brand of spirituality that nourished the Roman Rite for thousands of years? I really can’t figure out why they are so set against anything traditional.

I completely agree with you. The liberal minded Catholics do seem to occupy many prominent places within parish life. It makes me wonder why conservative/traditionalist Catholics don’t try to get more actively involved in parish life.

The only way to effect a positive change would be to ensure that faithful Catholics start being more vocal in parish affairs. I’m probably beating a dead horse but it would be great if more traditionalist catholics stood up and were counted.

I don’t know that it’s the tradition that the moderates/liberals dislike as much as it is the PEOPLE who claim to be traditional. Sometimes, it is really difficult to determine what at truly “traditional” Catholic IS anymore.

I consider myself VERY traditional, yet after cruising CAF and some other forums for a bit, apparently I’m some left-wing nutso in comparison.

The smug, arrogant, holier-than-the-Pope attitudes wear thin in a hurry. Those who self-appoint themselves as Church “Police” create far more divisiveness and anger, than hope and harmony.

Just this week, the pastor of a parish in our diocese resigned amidst an outcry started on-line by one of those types. His name and photo had been associated with a gay priest website back around 2000. The priest stated that he had distanced himself from the site in 2001.

Yet, 7 years later, a crusade started by a well-known “traditionalist” resulted in his resignation. This “traditionalist” has been a member of multiple parishes over the years, and never seems to stay in one long before moving on.

For all we know (and in some likelihood) that priest had ceased his “activtity” and had availed himself of the Sacrement of Reconcilaition. Yet, at the hand (or keyboard) of this self proclaimed “traditionalist”, his vocation is destroyed.

 

[Rawb]

How will the liturgy be different?

The wording will be slightly different; For all will be For Many and such, but mostly stay the same. I do think we’ll get a good deal more Tridentine Masses as more people request them.

Will we have married Priests?

I think married men will enter the priesthood in the western rite, yes. This will be the most drastic change, IMO.

Will the Tridentine Mass movement grow?

Yes, and here’s why. The Majority of the youth who stay Catholic are most attracted to the older forms of Catholicsm where the ‘uniqueness’ and obvious ‘difference’ of Catholicism lie. This Mass more obviously shows that we are not Protestants. Those young Catholics who love the Catholic Church, the Children of Traditionalists if you will, stay Catholic. The Children of Liberals become Protestant, because they don’t see why they should stay Catholic and try and change the Church. They don’t have their parent’s fervor. TradKids do.

What will happen to the liberals? Have they had their day?

Their offspring will become protestants or agnostics as their parents pretty much are/were. Yes, I believe the movement will be greatly diminished.

Will a new Mass be promulgated?

No. I don’t think so.

Will newer gothic churches be built?

I think we might harken back to the older forms, but not go truly Gothic. Sort of like Ave Maria Oratory; it’s a slightly new twist on old styles. At least this is my hope.

Will the Church grow or decline?

Decline. We’ll see a great fall in ‘Culture Catholics’. My generation doesn’t see the point in going to Mass or baptizing their children if they don’t believe, so they stop going and calling themselves Catholics. The Church will become smaller, but be more faithful.

 

[palmas85]

This is the thing I don’t understand. Why do they hate traditionalism? Don’t they know that this is the brand of spirituality that nourished the Roman Rite for thousands of years? I really can’t figure out why they are so set against anything traditional.

I completely agree with you. The liberal minded Catholics do seem to occupy many prominent places within parish life. It makes me wonder why conservative/traditionalist Catholics don’t try to get more actively involved in parish life.

From what I’ve seen they hate it because it doesn’t reflect liberalism and modernism in the theological sense. Instead it rejects most of the theological ideas born from the 1800’s through the 20ths century. Traditional Catholicism does not jibe well with modern thought IE:

Truth: Many Liberals consider truth to be relative and can change according to circumstances. In fact they are absolutely certain that you can have no absolutes. Traditionals consider truth to be absolute

contraception, liberals applaud it and see its continued use as necessary in todays age. traditionals do not. Big issue

Hell, most progressives and liberals adhere to the liberalist view that Hell does not exist nor does Satan. Traditionals do believe in these things.

Mary, not all but many liberals downplay Marian devotion as being unscriptural and unnecessary in the scheme of things. They reject such devotions as being detrimental to the full understanding and development of the Christian faith. Traditionals believe her to be very important.

Sin: considered by most liberals to be societal in nature and communally forgiven. Traditionals generally consider sin to be personal as well as to some degree societal in nature.

I could go on and on.

Basically, you could say that liberals tend to reduce Catholicism to
the historical accuracy of Jesus
th existance of God in some form
the necessity of ethical behavior
love

everything else is superfluous.

These ideas not coincidentally are the same ideas, Germanic mainly, that infected the protestants in the late 1800’s and still do. It resulted in great part to many of the divisions that now exist within the various communities, as those who did not accept such ideas as truth were either cast out or departed on their own and formed new communities along more traditional lines…

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

A lot can go on in 50 years. The Church will either be much larger and going very well, or with the Islamic threat to Europe, and the Americas could be undergoing a period of persecution as of old. Our answer to this is as I have said so many times before. Pray for one another and pray for the Church. Don’t forget, the rosary was the weapon that stemmed the advance of Islam at the battle of Lepanto. That is what kept all of Europe from falling. It can do it again. Plus we have the additional weapon of the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Please, pray each of these daily. The benefit for you individually and for others is truly beyond measure.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[ethelzguy]

Yes, and here’s why. The Majority of the youth who stay Catholic are most attracted to the older forms of Catholicsm where the ‘uniqueness’ and obvious ‘difference’ of Catholicism lie. This Mass more obviously shows that we are not Protestants. Those young Catholics who love the Catholic Church, the Children of Traditionalists if you will, stay Catholic. The Children of Liberals become Protestant, because they don’t see why they should stay Catholic and try and change the Church. They don’t have their parent’s fervor. TradKids do.

Rawb,

That has to be one of the best posts I have ever read here. It makes a terrific point, without the usual emotional “my Mass is better than your Mass” routine.

:tiphat:

 

[Dempsey1919]

That has to be one of the best posts I have ever read here. It makes a terrific point, without the usual emotional “my Mass is better than your Mass” routine.

Very true. Rawb has made an excellent point, which is also very believable. I think the children of liberals will eventually become protestants because the Church will never change to suit their ideals. Sure the Mass has changed. But they’ll be waiting in vain for woman priests and the allowing of artificial birth control. Why should they stick around when there are plently of christian denominations that support their views and wishes perfectly?

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I think the children of liberals will eventually become protestants because the Church will never change to suit their ideals. Sure the Mass has changed. But they’ll be waiting in vain for woman priests and the allowing of artificial birth control.

Please define exactly who you mean by liberals that you are making such predictions about. If it about those of us who like the Novus Ordo, I l place myself in that category, but resist strongly and vociferously what you have said. I do not condemn the Latin Mass, but hold it and the Novus Ordo to be equally efficacious, since the merit of each mass is infinite. I hold solidly to what Rome teaches and believes and do teach what it believes. So please, just who are these liberals?
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Dempsey1919]

The liberals are those who support abortion and want to allow artificial birth control. They are the ones who protest against the Tridentine Mass. They attend Clown or Halloween Masses. They support openly gay priests. They devote themselves to false ecumenism. They hate all that is traditional within the Church.

No I am not classing those who prefer the NO as liberals. I like the NO myself. I am not saying, nor have I ever said the NO is invalid or is a bad thing.

However, those who dissent from Church teaching in favour of more secularised views would be classed as liberals in my view.

You all know the types I am talking about.

Furthermore, your Mass preference does not make you a liberal. The NO is very beautiful when celebrated properly. You should also note that I view ultratraditionists the same as I view the liberals. They are just as bad as each other.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I think what you call liberal, I call a cafeteria Catholic, picking and choosing what they want. Yes, that is difficult for properly raising a child in the true faith.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[Spiller]

The liberals are those who support abortion and want to allow artificial birth control. They are the ones who protest against the Tridentine Mass. They attend Clown or Halloween Masses. They support openly gay priests. They devote themselves to false ecumenism. They hate all that is traditional within the Church.

No I am not classing those who prefer the NO as liberals. I like the NO myself. I am not saying, nor have I ever said the NO is invalid or is a bad thing.

However, those who dissent from Church teaching in favour of more secularised views would be classed as liberals in my view.

You all know the types I am talking about.

Furthermore, your Mass preference does not make you a liberal. The NO is very beautiful when celebrated properly. You should also note that I view ultratraditionists the same as I view the liberals. They are just as bad as each other.

Your post is appalling…

Talk about the misuse of the term “liberal.” Postings like your’s cast a very toxic pall over what you would call “traditionalism.”

The qualities you expound are neither unique to “liberals” nor are they necessarily common amongst “liberals.” The are qualities typical of dissenting non-Catholics who claim to be Catholics and supermarket Catholics who feel they can shop for whatever they wish to accept.

Take another look at your posting. It truly is appalling.

 

[scapularkid8]

• Will the Tridentine Mass movement grow?
• Will the Church grow or decline?

As a post-Vatican II youth (I’m only 18 ) I am highly optimistic about the Church. I see an unwavering movement among the youth for tradition. We want the Extraordinary form of our Rite back. And conversions aren’t massive, but the numbers are surprising considering the Atheistic age we live in. With Pontiffs who put hope in us youth (John Paul II and Benedict) I think the Holy Spirit is guiding us to something “new”…but that’s not the right word because it isn’t new, it’s just revisiting what we wanted all along.

 

[Jacafamala]

Fifty years? Who can possibly say. I’ll probably be dead. Pray the Rosary for our children. They will need all the prayers we can offer for them.

 

[PoliSciProf]

Nothing essential will change of course. Because of this, and because of the poor job being done with regard to Catholic education for both adults and children, Catholicism will be increasingly seen as an archaic and irrelevent cult. It will become increasingly out of place as cloning, designer babies, chimeras, moral relativism, the acceptance (both culturally and legally) of non male/female marriages, etc. etc. become ubiquitous and accepted as obvious and commonsensical even more so than they are today. The priest shortage will lead out of necessity to an increase of and acceptance of married priests. I think the traditional diocese and parish structure (organization NOT doctrine) will have to change in response to a shrinking church and the inevitable use of the laity for more and more management and financial affairs. I would not want to speculate too much about this but I think there will be councils of deacons and of the laity both of whom will want more (name removed by moderator)ut and recognition. It will require great statesmanship on the part of the bishops (I am not an optimist here) to oversee and lead these new forms, especially as new technologies (i.e, the internet and its future development) contribute towards greater transparency, organizational communication and individual autonomy. The Spirit will certainly be busy in this brave new world.

 

[ethelzguy]

The liberals are those… They hate all that is traditional within the Church.

You all know the types I am talking about.

Wow! Lotsa “liberal-hating” going on around here.