What would bring the church back on track?

[GratefulDad]

I agree that there are no magic bullets.

However, I don’t think that personal piety on the part of some laity will right the wrongs or bring an increase in reverence.

We are hierarchical, and the ordained are in charge. The ordained need to continue reforming the seminaries, and the Bishops need to stand up for the Church. This can’t come from the bottom up - it has to come from the top down.

Pray for the Bishops and Priests to live up to their vows and lead us to greater reverence and greater Catholic identity; that’s where to start.

Paul, I know you do not think personal piety and increased reverence are worthless, but it is the entire environment that will add up to take us back to success. Success as Father’s and leaders of our “Domestic Church” a.k.a. our families. Success at the Parrish level, and so on.

If you have not tried something like this lately. You may give it a shot some time. As the head of your household you might just be amazed at the blessings you and your family would receive by approaching The Father with humility, obedience, reverence and piety. I am not saying you do not already do these things, just responding to the comment above saying it has given me great quiet times to hear the Lord and have my heart and mind open to the Holy Spirit.

 

[GratefulDad]

The Church is getting back on track, but that is only part of the issue. We also need to look at society as a whole and get it back on track. I commented on this recently in my blog:
Now, I know some here will complain about some of the movements listed (especially the Catholic Workers movement). However, we must take a look at everything and take the best of each.

BTW: I attend, except when the switch the Masses around, the Extraordinary form of the Mass and go to Confession almost every week.

Peregrinus, you da man.

 

[otjm]

I find this to be true as well.

HOWEVER— I did not join a social club.

I joined the one True Church, with Christ as its head, and whether its local parishoners throw parties or not isn’t really a factor.

I did not say anything about parties, so why you bring it up is beyond me.

Perhaps you may recall the line from a hymn: “Where charity and love prevail, there God is ever found…”

One does not have to have a party at church to welcome a stranger (“Hi. I don’t recognize you, are you new here? Welcome to (name of parish).”

I don’t call that a party - it is simply an act of charity. It is not “someone else’s job”. And there is no excuse for “Well, I am shy (incomfortable, not outgoing… put in the next excuse).” Catholics in all too many parishes are notorious for giving someone the cold shoulder; excuses abound (I came there to pray, not to socialize…).

Part of one of the acts of contrition include the words “for all the things I have failed to do”. Failing to acknowledge one another, particularly those we don’t know or recognize, should come under that heading. Some Catholics would do well to read St Paul (I was going to say re-read, but I am not sure they have read it for the first time). He speaks eloquently about the Body of Christ - that’s you and me and the person sitting in the pew, and the late comer, and the mother or father out walking a noisy childs and… you get the picture). Considering the way that we relate to one another (how many times I have heard somone talk about the “stranger they were sitting next to”). Stranger? Or sister or brother in Christ? Are these (sister & brother in Christ) just nice slogans the Church uses, or do they mean something?

Party? Why do you respond about a party? Or do you simply give lip service to what Paul says, and the Church repeats?

May I suggest that you go back and re-read my original post? Then tell me if I said anything about parties, and where I said it.

 

[PaulinVA]

Paul, I know you do not think personal piety and increased reverence are worthless, but it is the entire environment that will add up to take us back to success. Success as Father’s and leaders of our “Domestic Church” a.k.a. our families. Success at the Parrish level, and so on.

If you have not tried something like this lately. You may give it a shot some time. As the head of your household you might just be amazed at the blessings you and your family would receive by approaching The Father with humility, obedience, reverence and piety. I am not saying you do not already do these things, just responding to the comment above saying it has given me great quiet times to hear the Lord and have my heart and mind open to the Holy Spirit.

I agree with you, but, quite frankly, it is hard to raise a family in piety and reverence for our Lord through His Church when those efforts are thwarted by what they see and hear at Mass and at the parish.

(I’m beginning to sound more and more like a traditional Catholic, although I am conservative, not traditional, as those labels are presently used.)

The Bishops and Priests need to lead us out of this wilderness, and unfortunately, too many are not up to the task… So, they need our prayers.

 

[GratefulDad]

I agree with you, but, quite frankly, it is hard to raise a family in piety and reverence for our Lord through His Church when those efforts are thwarted by what they see and hear at Mass and at the parish.

(I’m beginning to sound more and more like a traditional Catholic, although I am conservative, not traditional, as those labels are presently used.)

The Bishops and Priests need to lead us out of this wilderness, and unfortunately, too many are not up to the task… So, they need our prayers.

Absolutely.

 

[brigid12]

From listening to a number of speakers/clergy on the TV (EWTN) or radio on this question and since the sexual revolution and very poor catechesis took place then, I would have to say that strong catechesis (on both Faith and Morals) from our bishops, priests and catechists would go a long way to helping. That said, although I have very academic tendencies and am religiously fairly scholarly, I need to admit to being somewhat (even subliminally?) influenced on my way to entering the Church by the warmth and the love shown by the parishioners. Humans are social creatures.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

The Church is getting back on track, but that is only part of the issue. We also need to look at society as a whole and get it back on track. I commented on this recently in my blog:
Now, I know some here will complain about some of the movements listed (especially the Catholic Workers movement). However, we must take a look at everything and take the best of each.

For me, it would be the inclusion of Capitalists.

 

[Cat]

From listening to a number of speakers/clergy on the TV (EWTN) or radio on this question and since the sexual revolution and very poor catechesis took place then, I would have to say that strong catechesis (on both Faith and Morals) from our bishops, priests and catechists would go a long way to helping. That said, although I have very academic tendencies and am religiously fairly scholarly, I need to admit to being somewhat (even subliminally?) influenced on my way to entering the Church by the warmth and the love shown by the parishioners. Humans are social creatures.

Such an excellent post! Thank you.

We need to remember I Corinthians 13, which says (my paraphrase) that if we have all knowledge but no love, we have nothing.

The catechesis is certainly important. But the love of Christians for each other is what will draw people BACK on track to the Church.

I have seen this happen in a Protestant church that we attended in North Carolina for ten years. The members, led by the pastor, made a commitment to love not only Jesus, but each other, and to SHOW this love in practical ways (e.g., helping clean a house when someone was taken ill, or providing child care so that a person can attend a funeral, etc.).

This “love one another” strategy really took off when our youth pastor spent two weeks at the hospital bedside of a teenager whose father and older brother had been critically injured in an auto crash. The youth pastor came home only to take a shower and greet his wife and children, but then he would head back to the hospital to stay with this young teenager, who was haunted by nightmares about the accident and fears for his loved ones and guilt that he had survived with only a broken leg. The youth pastor played games, watched TV, chatted, ate, and prayed with the teen, and at night, he slept in a cot in the hospital room.

WIthin a few weeks, the crowds started coming to our church, and I do mean crowds. People would ask, “Is this the church with that youth pastor that’s staying in the hospital with ____?”

The word had gotten out all over the city (about 300,000 pop.) and people who were literally aching with loneliness and looking for love flocked to our church and stuck around! I think we doubled our membership in a few months, and over the next ten years, quadrupled the membership. The LOVE in that church was truly of the Lord–I have yet to see this love in any other church, including my Catholic parish. People scrubbed their neighbors toilets–THAT’S Christian love! Kiss of peace–big deal–we had the “toilet scrubbing of peace” in that church!

When you think about it, what’s easier to give-- a kiss of peace (or some other sign of peace) or a house-cleaning?

I think that if Catholics practiced agape love for each other, it would get the Church back on track. Love tends to breed more love–once someone starts the love train rolling, everyone gets on board!

BTW, this entire post is very Biblical. I’m just too lazy to look up all the many references (other than I Corinthians 13) about love in the Church. It’s in there!

 

[peregrinus_WA]

For me, it would be the inclusion of Capitalists.

For me, both Capitalism (especially Global Capitalism) and Socialism are two of the main causes of the social/economic ills of today. Both are failures.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

For me, both Capitalism (especially Global Capitalism) and Socialism are two of the main causes of the social/economic ills of today. Both are failures.

Capitalism hasn’t failed. But the media has done its best to make everyone think so.

 

[brigid12]

Cat, how about: 1John 3:17-18, 1John 4:7-8, 1John 4:20-21, 2John 6, James 14-17, Galatians 5:22-23 plus many, many more!

*“And they’ll know we are Christians, by our love, by our love, yes they’ll know we are Christians by our love.” *

 

[shuzo1189]

For me, it would be the inclusion of Capitalists.

Here here

I am not sure if you have read it, but Thomas E Woods Jr has an excellent book about Catholicism and Capitalism. I should note that Thomas Woods ascribes to the Austrian School of Economics (Think Milton Friedman, Hayek etc)

amazon.com/Church-Market-Catholic-Defense-Economics/dp/0739110365/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241653525&sr=1-4

 

[brigid12]

For me, both Capitalism (especially Global Capitalism) and Socialism are two of the main causes of the social/economic ills of today. Both are failures.

Do you truly think that changing our nation’s economic base/philosophy would have any effect on getting the Church to pay attention to it’s Catholicism, reverence for the Eucharist, devotion to Mary, etc.?

 

[peregrinus_WA]

Do you truly think that changing our nation’s economic base/philosophy would have any effect on getting the Church to pay attention to it’s Catholicism, reverence for the Eucharist, devotion to Mary, etc.?

I issue goes way beyond the Church. The symptoms we are seeing in the Church are also the same we are seeing in society as a whole. Society as a whole has lost its way due to the list I gave before. Yes, we must do all you say.

However, until (or if) civilization returns to a moral foundation, both or a social and economic level, we will continue to encounter a contradictions and resistance to the teachings of the Church. One cannot be accomplished without the other.

 

[Cat]

I issue goes way beyond the Church. The symptoms we are seeing in the Church are also the same we are seeing in society as a whole. Society as a whole has lost its way due to the list I gave before. Yes, we must do all you say.

However, until (or if) civilization returns to a moral foundation, both or a social and economic level, we will continue to encounter a contradictions and resistance to the teachings of the Church. One cannot be accomplished without the other.

I don’t think we’ll see a return of civilization (at least in the U.S.) to a moral foundation UNLESS the church is revived.

If you read the history of religious revival, you will see that revival came FIRST, and then society became moral. NOT the other way around.

II Chronicles 7:14 says that if my people who are called by My name will humble themselves and pray and seek My Face and turn from their wicked way, THEN I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

The healing of civilization and culture won’t happen until God’s people make a decision to be humble, pray and turn from sin. The ball is in OUR court, not theirs. We can’t sit back and wait for the world to become moral. WE have to pray, seek God, and turn from sin.

And I do believe that it does not take a huge church to do this. I believe that the small remnant of the faithful can do all of these things. If we sit around and wait for our churches to fill up, we are disobedient. We should humble ourselves, pray, seek God, and turn from sin NOW, not someday when the Mass is full and all the people are catechized and everything is good again.

Finally, I believe it will happen in GOD’S time, not ours. To us, the decades fly by and it seems that God has abandoned us. But to Him, a thousand years is as a day. We just need to OBEY–keep being humble, praying, seeking Him, and turning from sin. Someday, we will see how our prayers and faith helped to bring the kingdom of God to earth.

I’ll be honest–I think for Catholics, the first step is the hardest–humbling ourselves. I see a lot of pride from some of the Catholics on this board. So many are convinced that they know more than the Church, and so many MANY Catholics are convinced that they are “entitled” to the “perfect Mass.” Yes, the Church documents do say that the faithful are entitled to a reverent, abuse-free Mass. But I’m not sure that this means that we are entitled to the kind of music we like, the perfectly-quiet nave, the modestly-dressed crowd, the Communion railing, and all the trappings that some people long for. I think that we should learn to be content, and that is humility. Perhaps it is our lack of contentment with our Masses that is preventing us from humbling ourselves.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I issue goes way beyond the Church. The symptoms we are seeing in the Church are also the same we are seeing in society as a whole. Society as a whole has lost its way due to the list I gave before. Yes, we must do all you say.

However, until (or if) civilization returns to a moral foundation, both or a social and economic level, we will continue to encounter a contradictions and resistance to the teachings of the Church. One cannot be accomplished without the other.

There’s nothing inherently immoral about Capitalism—unlike communism, socialism, or whatever iteration is in fashion now.

Because Capitalism is often tarred with the same brush, and brush-wielders, as Catholicism, I wish that people would brush up on the Constitution AND the Bible.

 

[Seamus_L]

If we had alot more priests upholding traditional Catholic teaching.

 

[I_Believe]

There are many things that have happened throught the last decades… some good and some bad…
So what things would bring the church back on track???

One thing we could do is have Bishop Williamson screen all converts before they are confirmed.

 

[the_phoenix]

Funny thing. I read your post, wasn’t sure how to answer, and the next thing I see is a quote over on the right-hand sidebar of this forum under “Catholic Quotes” with the answer staring me right in the face:

“In order to restore in the world the reign of Jesus Christ, nothing is as necessary as the holiness of the clergy.”
– Pope Pius X, writing on May 5, 1904 (from the article “Ecclesiastical Seminary”)

There you go.

 

[otjm]

There’s nothing inherently immoral about Capitalism—unlike communism, socialism, or whatever iteration is in fashion now.

Because Capitalism is often tarred with the same brush, and brush-wielders, as Catholicism, I wish that people would brush up on the Constitution AND the Bible.

There have been a number of things written on economic systems by the Church; John Paul 2 in particular had some interesting things to say. Primarily, however, the problems in the Church are not specific to our econiomic system, but in part rather to issues which are related - e.g. consumerism, materialism, etc.