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Zundrah
Guest
Seriously, isn’t it wrong to start arguing about who is or isn’t in heaven? It’s just wrong. We cannot and should not judge anyone.
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rinnie
Guest
While I agree with you on one point adam I can’t on another. Here is why. What about when the HS tells you one thing and me another? Can there be more than one truth? Not according to scripture? Can there be more than one HS not according to scripture.Have you read much of John Calvin? He is known for his gifted mind, but his writings are very devotional… manifesting a great love for God. It’s the same with Jonathan Edwards in his obvious great love for God. Truth in doctrine when applied by the Holy Spirit to our minds will grow us in a greater love for our God. IMO… the more we understand the depths of the gospel, the more we will grow our personal love for God in what He has done for us in Christ.
So is that not why God promised the HS to the church so we could all have this one truth through one source?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
God the Holy Spirit is God and the 3rd person of the godhead (Trinity). God is perfect. The church is made up of sheep and goats which is imperfect. Most of the NT letters are dealing with the sins of the churches as well as false teaching in the churches. The NT letters are first and foremost doctrinal in nature, followed by correct living as Christians. The head of the Church being Christ is perfect. The body of Christ is far from being perfect.I guess we see it so different. I do believe that the Church was made perfect because the Church is Jesus Christ. It is led by the Power of the Holy Spirit. You don’t believe that the church is led by the HS and the HS is perfect?
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rinnie
Guest
I don’t know about wrong Zun, Just impossible. Only God knows who is forgiven and enters heaven not us.Seriously, isn’t it wrong to start arguing about who is or isn’t in heaven? It’s just wrong. We cannot and should not judge anyone.
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Zundrah
Guest
But I thought that catholics are taught not to talk ill of the dead?I don’t know about wrong Zun, Just impossible. Only God knows who is forgiven and enters heaven not us.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I don’ think so. Don’t Catholic Christians ask certain saints to pray for you? If they are not in Heaven, then why ask?Seriously, isn’t it wrong to start arguing about who is or isn’t in heaven? It’s just wrong. We cannot and should not judge anyone.
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rinnie
Guest
What about the CC on Pentecost. When he told Peter he was sending the advocate the HS to guide the Church. What about that scripture. What do you do with that?God the Holy Spirit is God and the 3rd person of the godhead (Trinity). God is perfect. The church is made up of sheep and goats which is imperfect. Most of the NT letters are dealing with the sins of the churches as well as false teaching in the churches. The NT letters are first and foremost doctrinal in nature, followed by correct living as Christians. The head of the Church being Christ is perfect. The body of Christ is far from being perfect.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Do you mind posting the biblical account in context of what you are stating?What about the CC on Pentecost. When he told Peter he was sending the advocate the HS to guide the Church. What about that scripture. What do you do with that?
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dzheremi
Guest
Why are any of us speculating on whether or not any person is in heaven? Why not stop speculating and return to praying for their souls, if you are so concerned? I don’t think it is good to speculate on such things.
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rinnie
Guest
There is a big difference. If they are a Saint they are in heaven. Getting into heaven is what makes them a saint.I don’ think so. Don’t Catholic Christians ask certain saints to pray for you? If they are not in Heaven, then why ask?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I know Mormons believe that they can pray for the dead and affect the destiny of their dead relatives and friends. Do Catholics believe in something like this?Why are any of us speculating on whether or not any person is in heaven? Why not stop speculating and return to praying for their souls, if you are so concerned? I don’t think it is good to speculate on such things.
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Zundrah
Guest
You got me all wrong. I was saying that assuming someone is in hell is morally wrong!Heaven was nothing to do with it.I don’ think so. Don’t Catholic Christians ask certain saints to pray for you? If they are not in Heaven, then why ask?
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rinnie
Guest
Sure hit acts 2:2 It explains it all for you.Do you mind posting the biblical account in context of what you are stating?
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2nd_Adam
Guest
Okay, you have to understand me within a Protestant mindset when we communicate. Protestants believe all born from above sinners are saints. We are both sinners and saints at the same time. We are saints set apart for God.There is a big difference. If they are a Saint they are in heaven. Getting into heaven is what makes them a saint.
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Zundrah
Guest
…what church do you go to?Okay, you have to understand me within a Protestant mindset when we communicate. Protestants believe all born from above sinners are saints. We are both sinners and saints at the same time. We are saints set apart for God.
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rinnie
Guest
No their fate is settled at the time of their death in this world. It is up to Jesus what its going to be. If its hell its over. If its heaven they are in. If its purgatory, which means they did not die in mortal sin but must go through the final cleanings then our prayers can help. Purgatory is the final cleaning. And yes we can help. By our prayers and the prayers of the saints we can help them.I know Mormons believe that they can pray for the dead and affect the destiny of their dead relatives and friends. Do Catholics believe in something like this?
Prayers help everyone, Jesus even prayed for peter if you recall.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
emeraldbible.com/…what church do you go to?
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dzheremi
Guest
I really don’t know anything about the Mormon belief, so I can’t comment on whether or not it is similar, but Catholics definitely do believe in praying for the souls of the departed. Here is the article from New Advent (Catholic Encyclopedia) on prayer for the dead, the reasoning behind it, etc. if you’re curious.I know Mormons believe that they can pray for the dead and affect the destiny of their dead relatives and friends. Do Catholics believe in something like this?
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rinnie
Guest
Not us. Sinners are not in the grace of God. Saints are in Gods grace. We do not believe you can be in Gods grace, and out of Gods grace at the same time. No lukewarm like the bible says. You are either in a state of sin or a state of grace!Okay, you have to understand me within a Protestant mindset when we communicate. Protestants believe all born from above sinners are saints. We are both sinners and saints at the same time. We are saints set apart for God.
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2nd_Adam
Guest
I think Paul teaches that we are saints and sinners at the same time.Not us. Sinners are not in the grace of God. Saints are in Gods grace. We do not believe you can be in Gods grace, and out of Gods grace at the same time. No lukewarm like the bible says. You are either in a state of sin or a state of grace!
The Law and Sin - rom 7
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
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