What Would You Most Like Pope Francis To Do?

[PJM]

=einna;10489592]If a Pope declared the Church does not have the authority to change something, why can another Pope then declare that it can be change, other than those things declared infallible?
Just wondering.

No friend your wrong [and party right as well]

The Sacraments are not declared as “Infallible” yet actually they are because they are Instituted By God Himself which places them beyond the authority of the Pope and the Magisterium. They are UNCHANGEABLE. period!

I also listedon that Post the 3 reasons given that make it an unchanhable Doctrine.

Further in a eariler post on this string I posted the Code of Canon Law #742 I think] which states that ANYTHING that the “Church” teaches Officially on ALL matters of Faith and Or Morals MUST be accepted and practiced.

God Bless,
pat/PJM

 

[shelby_sun]

Every Mass is the unbloody re-presentation of His sacrifice upon Calvary.

No extravagance is too splendid for Our Lord. There is enough wealth to tend to the poor and to honor Christ. I hold any view in suspicion that presents any reason why we should deprive Our Lord of honors.

Maybe I am wrong, but I believe our glory and honor to God comes from our faith in the Trinity, how we live out our faith and the Sacraments, upholding the Ten Commandments, and honoring the Eucharist. It has nothing to do with material wealth.

Get ready to be suspicious of Pope Francis because as a Jesuit, he is not about showing wealth to honor God. Now saying that he is not against it, but Jesuits are about serving God as Jesuit did, going out among the people, traveling to spread his word, living with and caring for the poor and sick. There lives and worship has nothing to do with wealth. Of course, Pope Francis will have to live a much different life than he had planned when he became a Jesuit priest, but I am sure he see this as God’s plan for him now and will settle in just fine.

 

[HansTrappist]

Say goodby to any chance of reunification with Orthodoxy then.

Explain.

 

[bobbyhillisabro]

1. More Traditional Latin Mass
2. Bring the hammer down on politicians who are pro-contraception, abortion, and gay marriage, as well as tackle these issues on their own

 

[RyanBlack]

Explain.

The Orthododox are generally opposed to the dogmatization of Marian teachings-even those with which they agree. For example, the Orthodox do not at all disagree with the teaching of the Assumption (it is essentially the same teaching as the Dormition of the Theotokos), but they are opposed to it being a matter of dogma. I’m not sure as to the position of the Orthodox on the Theotokos as co-Redemptrix-however, I’m virtually certain that they would oppose its dogmatization.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Say goodby to any chance of reunification with Orthodoxy then.

A couple of guests on EWTN’s Women of Grace radio show strongly disagree with that prediction, and in fact predict the opposite. I forgot what precisely they said, but they both said that there are certain signs already that he has opened the door to unification in a way that makes the Orthodox very excited and anticipatory.

 

[Francoist]

Maybe I am wrong, but I believe our glory and honor to God comes from our faith in the Trinity, how we live out our faith and the Sacraments, upholding the Ten Commandments, and honoring the Eucharist.

I don’t disagree with any of that.

 

[epan]

As a first major public action, I would like to see him issue an action plan, and state publicly what he is going to do about the contents two red volumes in his safe. Then, he should follow through with the plan, dispassionately and resolutely. Rank or position in the Church hierarchy should offer no more protection than it would in government, the military, or private enterprise. Heads should roll.

The way it looks to me, Benedict did him the great favor of falling on his sword on the day that he received the report. He was already considering resigning due to age, and he decided to use his resignation for greater positive effect for the Church and for his successor. His act was honorable, and in defense of the Church.

Now, Francis should accept that gift, and cut out the diseased wood for the health of the entire forest.

I believe that such a bold act, taken public, and in an open way, subject to public scrutiny, would restore a great deal of respect to the Church. It would greatly bolster the perception of integrity of the institution, and would probably reinvigorate Catholics who are disaffected at this time. It would be a very painful thing to do, but the end result would be great healing.

I also think that the chilling effect on those who are still corrupt, but unknown in the Church would be significant. Such an action plan would have a huge effect at stopping future corruption, and also to strengthen morale within the clergy for that majority who feels stigmatized by the publicity, suspicion and scandal.

 

[RyanBlack]

A couple of guests on EWTN’s Women of Grace radio show strongly disagree with that prediction, and in fact predict the opposite. I forgot what precisely they said, but they both said that there are certain signs already that he has opened the door to unification in a way that makes the Orthodox very excited and anticipatory.

Regardless of what was said on EWTN, proclaiming any more Marian beliefs (even Marian beliefs the Orthodox share) as matters of dogma will only further complicate restoration of full communion with the Eastern Orthodox, since the Orthodox generally oppose making Marian teachings not dogmatized by an Ecumenical Council matters of dogma by papal proclamation.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Regardless of what was said on EWTN, proclaiming any more Marian beliefs (even Marian beliefs the Orthodox share) as matters of dogma will only further complicate restoration of full communion with the Eastern Orthodox, since the Orthodox generally oppose making Marian teachings not dogmatized by an Ecumenical Council matters of dogma by papal proclamation.

Rather than you and I arguing with each other, I think it would be best if you retrieve a podcast of that episode. It was obviously very recent (it might have been Thursday). Then you’d have a better sense of what was said on the show, which had absolutely nothing to do with Marian dogma. I believe (I could be wrong!) that one of those excited guests is himself Orthodox.

 

[RyanBlack]

Rather than you and I arguing with each other, I think it would be best if you retrieve a podcast of that episode. It was obviously very recent (it might have been Thursday). Then you’d have a better sense of what was said on the show, which had absolutely nothing to do with Marian dogma. I believe (I could be wrong!) that one of those excited guests is himself Orthodox.

In your post, you were replying to Schism Hater’s reply to a post that expressed a wish that Pope Francis proclaim the teaching of the Theotokos as co-Redemptrix as a matter of dogma. Schism Hater, with good reason, was pointing out that such action could close the door on any hopes of reunification of with the Orthodox. So wile the episode on EWTN may have had nothing to do with Marian dogma, the post to which you replied did-and I agree with what Schism Hater posted.

 

[Deltadeliquent]

Among other things already mentioned, I’d like to see him follow St. Francis of Assisi and make it clear that God loves His other creatures as well as Humans, and that we need to be respectful, and kind, and Non abusive of them. Not just our pets, but all those being tortured and slaughtered for sport or food, or “medicine”. Everyone is a creature of God.

 

[jeannetherese]

May he continue to grow in faith and holiness. Amen

 

[Elizabeth502]

In your post, you were replying to Schism Hater’s reply to a post that expressed a wish that Pope Francis proclaim the teaching of the Theotokos as co-Redemptrix as a matter of dogma. Schism Hater, with good reason, was pointing out that such action could close the door on any hopes of reunification of with the Orthodox. So wile the episode on EWTN may have had nothing to do with Marian dogma, the post to which you replied did-and I agree with what Schism Hater posted.

I’m not disputing any of that, but again, I just think it’s better to hear it “from the horse’s mouth” (someone himself connected with Orthodoxy). And I’m obviously doing a poor job of translation or even transmission. Please listen to the podcast for the reasons for the excitement, which were quite specific. My field of specialty is not Eastern Catholicism so I hesitate to make any grand pronouncements. And, surely there are hurdles. However, it is to be noted that the guest in question was so positive that he anticipated reunification in the very near future.

 

[RyanBlack]

I’m not disputing any of that, but again, I just think it’s better to hear it “from the horse’s mouth” (someone himself connected with Orthodoxy).

To what exactly do you refer? If you’re referring to what I stated about the problems the Orthodox have with dogmatizing Marian teaches, I assure you that I know what I’m talking about. Also, I am connected with Orthodoxy in that I’m Eastern Catholic, and I was once Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Elizabeth502]

To what exactly do you refer? If you’re referring to what I stated about the problems the Orthodox have with dogmatizing Marian teaches, I assure you that I know what I’m talking about. Also, I am connected with Orthodoxy in that I’m Eastern Catholic, and I was once Eastern Orthodox.

I don’t understand why you think I’m challenging you, Ryan. I am not. I am referring you, rather, to a radio program that you seem completely uninterested in hearing, perhaps because the viewpoint of its guest differs from yours. I am not in a position to know whether his viewpoint, or for that matter yours, is more or less representative of the position of others in Orthodoxy. However, in the spirit of the new papacy, I just thought that others here, professing Roman Catholicism, might be a tiny bit interested in someone with a hopeful, optimistic view. Perhaps he represents a view broader than his own.

Gee. No need to insist that there will never be unification.


P.S. I do read your identifier! I see that you are “Ruthenian Catholic.” I am not insisting that you see things the way the radio show’s guest sees them, for heaven’s sake. Just sharing, but apparently that is NOT O.K.

 

[RyanBlack]

I don’t understand why you think I’m challenging you, Ryan. I am not. I am referring you, rather, to a radio program that you seem completely uninterested in hearing, perhaps because the viewpoint of its guest differs from yours. I am not in a position to know whether his viewpoint, or for that matter yours, is more or less representative of the position of others in Orthodoxy. However, in the spirit of the new papacy, I just thought that others here, professing Roman Catholicism, might be a tiny bit interested in someone with a hopeful, optimistic view. Perhaps he represents a view broader than his own.

Gee. No need to insist that there will never be unification.


P.S. I do read your identifier! I see that you are “Ruthenian Catholic.” I am not insisting that you see things the way the radio show’s guest sees them, for heaven’s sake. Just sharing, but apparently that is NOT O.K.

I’m not insisting there will never be unification. I just think that it is not very likely.

There are considereable theological obstacles. Some of these obstacles are really of substantial differences in beliefs, particularly with respect to the issues of papal supremacy and papal infallibility. For these sort of difference to be overcome, one side will have to admit to having been wrong. Since both the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church believes that the Church cannot err, such an admission seems highly unlikely. On the other hand, there are theological disagreements that are largely semantic, or perhaps even differences of emphasis. This sort of disagreement ought not to be so difficult to overcome, except for the sins of stubbornness and pride, sins that can be found among both the hierachy and the laity of both communions (as well as among the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East, who are often forgotten in these discussion). This is why I’m not particularly optimistic about unification.

Having said that, I do believe that it would be sinful to abandon hope. I also believe that we have an obligation to work towards unification, since the union of all Christians is our Lord’s will.

 

[otjm]

In theory? Partially. In practice? Hardly at all.

I would agree there are people who wish to have the EF made more available; the difficulty is that there simply are not all that many people in any given place. This issue has been hashed out in other threads. Over time, it most likely will become more available, but the numbers of people wanting it are, for all appearances, low, so the likelihood is that it will remain the EF. That is not to be dismissive of it; just a simple reflection of the facts.

 

[otjm]

I sincerely hope that Pope Francis will continue the great work that Pope Benedict began regarding the RE-evangelization of the world, returning true Reverence and a proper respect for the Presence of Our Blessed Lord in the Blessed Sacrament and continue to set the modernists and progressives to flight by returning the Mass of Alltime to Its rightful place as the Ordinary Rite of Mass and engaging in “realistic dialog”, leading toward a final reconciliation with the SSPX.

You seem to miss the point that the modernists, as you call them, were in full florish when we only had the Tridentine rite Mass. And we can see that obviously didn’t work to stop them in their tracks.

As to “realistic dialogue” - there has been all the realistic dialogue the Church could possibly give forth with. As they have pointed out, ad nauseum, Christ made three promises: He would send the Holy Spirit; The Holy Spirit would never abandon the Church, and the Holy Spirit would protect the Church from error in faith and morals.

Now it is up to the SSPX to accept the doctrines of the Church which were in place before Vatican 2, and which protected the Church, during the creation of the Vatican 2 documents, from error.

 

[otjm]

Jesus Christ is King. I do not demand that my King wear the clothes of a beggar.

Why build great churches? Because God is great. Why have beautiful vestments? Because God is beautiful. Why have fine vessels? Because the vessels are to contain the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ, God of the universe.

Why be solemn and reverent? Because God is all and we are nothing. God is first. He is the Master and we are the servants. He cannot be honored too much.

Also: Mass is not a show. It is not a stage performance to entertain us. If it were, then I too would counsel austerity in it. But it is not that. It is the worship of Jesus Christ. Therefore I council that it be lavish, as our love for Him should be lavish.

Should we sell our vessel of spikenard and give the money to the poor?

You may feel that the liturgy needs to be lavish. If there is any way you can do it, I would suggest that you find a Trappist abbey and attend Mass there (I do, about once a month, so I at least have some idea of where and what I speak).