What's a Catholic response to "You're judging me"?

[PRmerger]

If you had a Protestant friend, would you attend her wedding?

Well, yes, of course I would, if they were both free to marry. Perhaps you’re misunderstanding Catholic teaching about attending Protestant weddings, Erika? The Catholic church views Protestant weddings as valid, (provided they’re free to marry each other of course!)

Perhaps your friend is not following Church law or going about her nuptials the Catholic way. But does that mean the marriage itself is wrong?

Well, yes–that’s the only reason I wouldn’t attend her wedding–because the marriage itself is wrong.

Two people committing to one another, finding mutual happiness through love hardly seems an occasion to prove a point about the vailidity of Canon law.

What if they were already married to someone else? Would that change your statement about “two people committing to one another, finding mutual happiness through love”?

With all due respect, I think your actions are less loving than they are self righteous. And yes, that’s me judging.

So why do you get to be self-righteous, but I don’t??

 

[ErikaA]

So why do you get to be self-righteous, but I don’t??

Because I’m better at it of course. Geez…

 

[PRmerger]

But the guy walked out on her. He left her, ergo she’s no longer married.

Maybe if they were just living together and he walked out on her, poof! the relationship is over. But they were married, in God’s eyes, and the husband does not have the power to dissolve the union.

I wonder if this friend would’ve been better off just killing her previous husband and receiving absolution for the momentary blood lust. Then, I’m sure the OP would’ve had no problem attending the wedding.

Please don’t try to speak for me. You’re implying that I believe murder is better than divorce.

Personally, I’ve told my husband, I will kill him before we’d ever divorce. I figure some things are so important, you really should be willing to kill to protect them. Plus, he’s now scared of me and this really keeps the household calm.

 

[PRmerger]

Because I’m better at it of course. Geez…

So you really don’t have a good answer.

Either I am allowed to judge this behavior and you can judge my behavior as well (although, as a Catholic I am only doing what’s right before God)

OR

you should not judge me.

 

[ErikaA]

So you really don’t have a good answer.

Either I am allowed to judge this behavior and you can judge my behavior as well (although, as a Catholic I am only doing what’s right before God)

OR

you should not judge me.

I guess I’m just not as close to God as you are. And good luck with the canonization.

 

[PRmerger]

I guess I’m just not as close to God as you are. And good luck with the canonization.

No need to be sarcastic, Erika. We’re having a discussion. A dialogue. Surely you can provide your views intelligently without taking nor giving offense?

 

[PRmerger]

But the guy walked out on her. He left her, ergo she’s no longer married.

This brings up an interesting issue. If all that is required to end a marriage is for someone to “walk out”–if he returns 1 month later remorseful and seeking reconciliation, do they need to get re-married?

 

[Tybourne]

This brings up an interesting issue. If all that is required to end a marriage is for someone to “walk out”–if he returns 1 month later remorseful and seeking reconciliation, do they need to get re-married?

I’m in a similar situation with my aunt and uncle, who are Baptists. My aunt walked out on her husband after more than thirty years’ marriage and five children and is now married to another man. I cannot act as if this situation is normal just because a good deal of time has elapsed or because most of the family have accepted it.

This is from the *FAMILIA *program (Animator’s handbook, Year 3, husbands and fathers, based on Veritatis Splendor):

You can certainly judge that the person has done something evil. But as for the person’s culpability, that is another question. He may have some degree of invincible ignorance at work [if a person has genuinely sought the truth and remains mistaken] and only God and the individual can know about this. Hence, when the Gospel tells us “do not to judge,” it does not mean that we cannot judge what is good or evil. It means that we cannot judge the *culpability *of the agent

The handbook goes on to cite Veritatis Splendor 63:

It is possible that the evil done as the result of invincible ignorance or a non-culpable error of judgement may not be imputable to the agent; but even in this case it does not cease to be an evil, a disorder in relation to the truth about the good

Therefore, I won’t cut my aunt off, but neither will I pretend that what she is doing is okay.

 

[Appleby]

But the guy walked out on her. He left her, ergo she’s no longer married. And St. Paul discusses that as does he indicate that a believer doesn’t have to remain yoked to a nonbeliever. Divorce isn’t a biblical nonsequitor.

I say this as a staunch believer in the sanctity of marriage. I wonder if this friend would’ve been better off just killing her previous husband and receiving absolution for the momentary blood lust. Then, I’m sure the OP would’ve had no problem attending the wedding. Personally, I’ve told my husband, I will kill him before we’d ever divorce. I figure some things are so important, you really should be willing to kill to protect them. Plus, he’s now scared of me and this really keeps the household calm.

My parents were married 62 years, and Daddy always joked that divorce never crossed his mind. Murder, yes, he would say, Divorce – never!

 

[PRmerger]

My parents were married 62 years, and Daddy always joked that divorce never crossed his mind. Murder, yes, he would say, Divorce – never!

I’ve heard that Charleton Heston’s wife gave a similar response when asked in interviews, “In all your many years of marriage, have you never considered divorce?” Her response was said to have been, “Divorce? Never! Murder…yes!”

 

[Appleby]

I’ve heard that Charleton Heston’s wife gave a similar response when asked in interviews, “In all your many years of marriage, have you never considered divorce?” Her response was said to have been, “Divorce? Never! Murder…yes!”

Likely that is where he heard it.

 

[ErikaA]

No need to be sarcastic, Erika. We’re having a discussion. A dialogue. Surely you can provide your views intelligently without taking nor giving offense?

Offended? Never… You could call me a racist, homophobic, elitiist, satan worshipping pedophile and I’d laugh. Just don’t call me liberal.

But to answer your question, no I can’t intelligently discuss this issue without resorting to sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek humor. But then, given your dilemma, that’s not really what you wanted in the first place. You didn’t post to find out if you erred. You posted to assuage your guilt over having destroyed a friendship. The truth is I’m afraid, while your convictions may be sincere and laudable to some degree, if your love for your friend is not apparent, do they matter? That’s a question you alone must answer. But it is worth thinking about.

And now, see if you can snatch the pebble from my hand.

 

[PRmerger]

You didn’t post to find out if you erred. You posted to assuage your guilt over having destroyed a friendship.

Again, Erika, you presume to speak for me. You do not know me, nor should you judge me.

]And now, see if you can snatch the pebble from my hand

I don’t know what that means!

I’m interested in your response to this: If all that is required to end a marriage is for someone to “walk out”–if he returns 1 month later remorseful and seeking reconciliation, do they need to get re-married? (You claimed that when a guy walks out on you you’re no longer married.)

 

[Micolo]

Michael Voris (Catholic apologist) explain in a wonderful way how confront the idea of judmentalism. I enjoyed listen to it, i believe so will you.

Everyone is invited to download his podcasts (Season Five - Episode three - Judgementalism)

catholictelevision.org/index.php?nav=03&content=20

God bless

 

[RobbyS]

Yup. So true!

Speaking of “parroting” reminded me of the little pat answer those who don’t vote pro-life have when they are questioned about it: They’ve obviously all taken the same quote from the talking heads they listen to. Their sources all have the same mantra. They ALWAYS fall back on the tired old answer which is only a cop-out: “but what about the babies (or children) killed in war?” (If I had a dime for every time I heard that…)
Here’s the answer you need to give them: tell them “I don’t see soldiers making an appointment to selectively kill anyone. I don’t see them collecting a certain sum of money for each life taken, no matter the circumstance. I don’t see any killing planned ahead of time. 50 million plus dead babies is nothing trivial!!
In war, it’s all about preserving lives if at all possible–at times that can even mean your own life in self-defense, if attacked. While war is always a terrible situation, there are times when war is just, such as when people need to be freed from tyranny.” (if they’re Catholic, urge them to contact Catholic Answers on the “just war” situations.)

Not sure that will sink in, as the majority of these people really have not thought for themselves for so long, they’ve likely forgotten how to, but it may make them think it through, even a bit. Of course, always back it with prayer.

If I were personally confronted, I would ask a question in response. Do you think my son is a murderer? He was a soldier and he killed people in Iraq.

 

[RobbyS]

If you had a Protestant friend, would you attend her wedding? Perhaps your friend is not following Church law or going about her nuptials the Catholic way. But does that mean the marriage itself is wrong? She may not be in full Communion with the Church, but does that mean the marriage is an abomination? Two people committing to one another, finding mutual happiness through love hardly seems an occasion to prove a point about the vailidity of Canon law. With all due respect, I think your actions are less loving than they are self righteous. And yes, that’s me judging.

In the case of the Protestant friend, the marriage is not an act of apostacy.

 

[Disciple96]

Originally Posted by ErikaA forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
If you had a Protestant friend, would you attend her wedding? Perhaps your friend is not following Church law or going about her nuptials the Catholic way. But does that mean the marriage itself is wrong? She may not be in full Communion with the Church, but does that mean the marriage is an abomination? Two people committing to one another, finding mutual happiness through love hardly seems an occasion to prove a point about the vailidity of Canon law. With all due respect, I think your actions are less loving than they are self righteous. And yes, that’s me judging.

The notion that a Catholic would feel that to not be in full Communion with the Church is a trivial matter is truly stunning. I should think that this would be a matter of much pain, leading to much reflection, not to be dismissed easily. What I am hearing in your words is anger, pain and resentment, stemming from and leading to misunderstanding of the Church, her teaching and her authority to teach.

The intention of the Church’s teaching on the sacredness and inviolability of marriage is to do what Christ Himself commands. What else should the Church do? She cannot change this, her teaching belongs not to her but to her Lord. The only way the marriage can be dissolved is if it never existed to begin with. That is not some idea from some man in some backroom somewhere wearing a funny hat; it’s from Christ Himself. And it can never be changed for any reason.

PRmerger, you seem to have tried to explain this to your friend, for whom you obviously care very much. It takes courage to say and do what is right when there is so much pressure from others to let it go. I’ve lost friends because of speaking out too. Later they saw that I was right and they came back and two of them are even coming back to the Church. One is converting to the Church. God is good, Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Always speak the truth. It isn’t our friends and family and neighbors we need fear. It is God alone we will answer to, each of us, every one.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

For what it’s worth, I dealt with almost an identical situation last year with my long-term friend. She was raised Catholic, strayed for awhile, seemed to come back to the faith, got married in the Church, was actively going to Mass and participating in ministries, etc. In other words, it seemed she had truly “come home” after a long searching journey and life seemed swell. That’s until an ex-boyfriend re-entered her life and she left her husband for him. I stood up to her and told her what she was doing was wrong (especially since her daughter was only 6 months old) on so many levels and for so many reasons. I too was accused of judging and not being a supportive friend. We didn’t talk for a few months at all.

But the eventual outcome was this–we started talking again slowly, only once in a long while and only about very specific things (such as, “Does your daughter need size __ clothes? Because I have some here for you”). And then over time things started to defrost a little. When she was calmer, she did ask me to explain myself better, and she made a point of telling me her side of things. I still didn’t agree with her, but at least the air was slightly more cleared. Since then, I’ve set some boundaries. We can talk on the phone but only about things that don’t involve her new relationship. We can visit in neutral places (such as a park) or at my house but I won’t go to the house she shares with new guy or attend gatherings that would show the appearance of a happy family, such as a birthday party.

I don’t know if any of this is the best way of dealing with things, but it’s been kind of OK so far, and at least I feel like my conscience is clear. She knows where I stand and she no longer pesters me to change my mind, including about the boundaries, even though I know they bother her. If anything, I hope this offers you a bit of perspective, because time does offer that. We’re not as close as we used to be, but at least we can share Mom stories and stuff, and I value at least that much. Best wishes in your situation.

My sister hasn’t spoken to me (except with contempt) for over two years because I didn’t attend her wedding to a divorced Catholic, whose marriage she broke up (with his consent, of course) after a ten year affair.
She accused me of making a “violent” statement by my decision.** I did judge her, and him.** But I did not condemn them, nor did I lecture them, I simply did not attend…and I was totally demonized for it because of my adherence to Church teaching on the indissolubility of the Sacrament of marriage. Isn’t it a work of mercy (spiritual) to admonish the sinner? I have to accept the consequences of defending the Faith. But I have been practically cut off from my family of origin. (eight siblings/deceased parents)
So I am grieving the loss in more ways than one. I am learning to offer up the suffering.

 

[PRmerger]

Michael Voris (Catholic apologist) explain in a wonderful way how confront the idea of judmentalism. I enjoyed listen to it, i believe so will you.

Everyone is invited to download his podcasts (Season Five - Episode three - Judgementalism)

catholictelevision.org/index.php?nav=03&content=20

God bless

Absolutely perfect and apropos! I esp. loved the part that said, "There’s not a good Catholic in the world who has not heard this passage, “Judge not, lest ye be judged!”.

 

[Riseof_Rome]

My response would be: “It’s not my judgment you need to worry about, buddy!”

Haha, gets 'em every time.