What's a Catholic response to "You're judging me"?

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Gabriella_San_S said:
My sister hasn’t spoken to me (except with contempt) for over two years because I didn’t attend her wedding to a divorced Catholic, whose marriage she broke up (with his consent, of course) after a ten year affair.
She accused me of making a “violent” statement by my decision.** I did judge her, and him.** But I did not condemn them, nor did I lecture them, I simply did not attend…and I was totally demonized for it because of my adherence to Church teaching on the indissolubility of the Sacrament of marriage. Isn’t it a work of mercy (spiritual) to admonish the sinner? I have to accept the consequences of defending the Faith. But I have been practically cut off from my family of origin. (eight siblings/deceased parents)
So I am grieving the loss in more ways than one. I am learning to offer up the suffering.
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May God bless you abundantly for your sufferings. But you hit the nail on the head: judge, but do not condemn. We can judge the actions of another, not the state of his soul.
 
PRmerger said:
So a friendship has become estranged because of my telling a good friend (who is Catholic) I could not attend her 2nd wedding. She told me, months later, that she felt “judged” by me. This is between “me and God” she told me.

How do I respond to this? What does it even mean when someone tells you you’re judging them when you are simply following Christ’s teaching?

Background: my friend was divorced 2 years ago–not her choice. Her husband told her he didn’t love her anymore.

My suggestions to pursue an annulment were considered, but it was “too expensive.”

A year ago she met a man–a very nice, Catholid, divorced caring man. They were to be married in March by a judge. I gently and sorrowfully told her that I could not attend the wedding. That was the beginning of the estrangement. :sad_yes:

Advice? Comments?
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You were not judging her - because only God can judge. You were, though being critical of her…and that you can do…and did so in truth and as a good friend! Bless you!
 
PRmerger said:
How do I respond to this? What does it even mean when someone tells you you’re judging them when you are simply following Christ’s teaching?

Advice? Comments?
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A few more thoughts, as you’ve continued to be on my mind:

I assume that, because you are asking the question, you do not wish to end the friendship, but wish it could be restored. One approach might be to go out of your way to reach out to her in other ways, ways that show you care about her but not that you’re sanctioning her actions or relationship. Examples: send a birthday card; send a “thinking of you” card anytime; e-mail her about a great deal you saw online, or mail her some coupons that you think she would appreciate; make a point to call and ask how she’s doing in other ways (for instance, how work’s going, or let’s say if you find out a close relative is very ill, you could ask if you could help in some concrete way such as cooking her dinner, or just offer emotional support). In my situation with my friend, I told her I’d be happy to help her by watching her baby while she went on job interviews (she was relocating as part of the divorce), or that I’d store some of her stuff at my place as she prepared to move. Concrete actions like that can be really helpful. All the while, act really normal about it, not like you’re doing it because you feel guilty about before. Because, after all, you did nothing wrong, so you have nothing to feel guilty about. Thus, act like nothing happened (because in your world, it didn’t; the only problem is how she is choosing to respond). She may not respond at first, but in time you never know. The constancy of your support may surprise her and cause her to question how you can act so loving to her in those ways and still have made the choice you did–and in time, that may open fruitful dialogue.

As far as your question, “What does it mean when someone tells you you’re judging them?” in a context like this, it means only this: “You have no right to judge me” in today’s mindset translates roughly to, “I want to do whatever I want and have no consequences whatsoever, from you or anyone else, and so long as you stay out of my way and don’t mention a downside to what I’m doing, I will continue to have fun. You are raining on my parade by not allowing me to have everything I want–my friend’s support along with my illicit relationship.” The fact is, it has become the cultural norm to let everybody do almost anything, and society’s version of good manners pretty much dictates that the only proper response is to say, “Hey, it’s your life; it’s none of my business.” Whenever you buck that norm, of course people will question you and be offended. I just feel bad that you got caught in the middle, because one way or another, it does hurt to lose a friend, even if it is because you stuck up for Christ’s truth.
 
What providence. I came over here to post a thread about someone who claims to be Catholic and Pro-Life on YouTube but is telling me I have no right to judge others who support abortion. I’m running out of responses because this person is like a broken record, calling me nutbag repeatedly, a fanatic, and ineffective in defending the pro-life position… Because I’m not cuddling up to the pro-abortion people commenting there. I’m glad I found this thread and the responses. Thanks. 👍
 
DeoSalvatoreMeo said:
What providence. I came over here to post a thread about someone who claims to be Catholic and Pro-Life on YouTube but is telling me I have no right to judge others who support abortion. I’m running out of responses because this person is like a broken record, calling me nutbag repeatedly, a fanatic, and ineffective in defending the pro-life position… Because I’m not cuddling up to the pro-abortion people commenting there. I’m glad I found this thread and the responses. Thanks. 👍
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Glad we could help. And I just loved what Dr. Ray Guarendi (and others) had to say before the elections last fall (although I’m sure the argument started much sooner)–substitute “slavery” for “abortion” when anyone brings the issue up, and suddenly the issue gets much clearer. Should my neighbor be allowed to have a slave just because he wants to, even if I’m “personally opposed to slavery”? Should that be his “choice”? And so on…you can extend it outward in a hundred ways if you think about it. It makes the issue seem so much more obvious because it strips away the rhetoric we’ve all gotten so accustomed to, to the point where we don’t really feel the impact anymore. And you’re not a nutbag or a fanatic because you wish to debate an issue based on logic and reason (including science) instead of making decisions solely based on emotion. Best wishes on that.
 
The best Catholic (or any) response to “your judging me” is from a nun:

We don’t judge people…God does that. We ARE to judge actions, though

Sums it up really well.
 
bflochica5 said:
“I want to do whatever I want and have no consequences whatsoever, from you or anyone else, and so long as you stay out of my way and don’t mention a downside to what I’m doing, I will continue to have fun. You are raining on my parade by not allowing me to have everything I want–my friend’s support along with my illicit relationship.”
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This should be made into a t-shirt.
 
“Judging” is right! Your friend has judged, by her own authority, that a secular judge has the ability to declare what is only God’s to declare - namely that two fleshes have become one. In fact, it appears that your friend and her cohabitant are indeed married, but to others! Both are profaning their first marriage, and committing adultery with each other. Marriage was instituted by God, not man. The secular judge has usurped God’s authority. The judge declared what is legal in man’s eyes. Gods declares what is moral in His sight.
 
You can tell her if she doesn’t like the way your judging her actions, that you’ll change it if the Church sides with her… That’s her Biblical choice to appeal to the Church.
 
bflochica5 said:
A few more thoughts, as you’ve continued to be on my mind:

I assume that, because you are asking the question, you do not wish to end the friendship, but wish it could be restored. One approach might be to go out of your way to reach out to her in other ways, ways that show you care about her but not that you’re sanctioning her actions or relationship.
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Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions.

Here’s the ironic (don’t know that’s the correct word here) part–the day that my friend was to be married by a judge–a Wednesday–her father died unexpectedly. My husband and children and I attended the visitation, sent a donation to a family charity and had masses offered for her father…

I have not heard a word from her that she received the mass card nor anything acknowledging the donation.

I suppose it wouldn’t be charitable for me to send her an email that says, “Just wondering if you received the Mass Card and donation? I believe I sent that to you after I judged you…” :tsktsk: sigh I know, I know–I won’t do it.

I do want to mend the relationship, but part of me (I am a Lion in temperament–good and bad :sad_yes:) says, “Scr*w You! I didn’t just cavalierly decide to hurt your feelings by telling you I couldn’t attend the wedding!”
 
ErikaA said:
Offended? Never… You could call me a racist, homophobic, elitiist, satan worshipping pedophile and I’d laugh. Just don’t call me liberal.

But to answer your question, no I can’t intelligently discuss this issue without resorting to sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek humor. But then, given your dilemma, that’s not really what you wanted in the first place. You didn’t post to find out if you erred. You posted to assuage your guilt over having destroyed a friendship. The truth is I’m afraid, while your convictions may be sincere and laudable to some degree, if your love for your friend is not apparent, do they matter? That’s a question you alone must answer. But it is worth thinking about.

And now, see if you can snatch the pebble from my hand.
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Yes, her convictions do matter. That’s what convictions are, the things that matter to you. God’s law that marriage is for as long as you live is more important than any friendship. I thought that living my convictions weren’t as important as friendship (or in my case, sistership) and did some things that, while not evil or bad and in fact, no body would have even noticed that I read at my sister’s wedding in a UCC church and am the Godmother to her son who was baptized in a UCC church, it hurt me because I know now that it was “testimony” of a sort that those things I hold precious, God’s sacraments and the way they should be addressed, was secondary to my sister’s choice to leave the church.
 
DeoSalvatoreMeo said:
What providence. I came over here to post a thread about someone who claims to be Catholic and Pro-Life on YouTube but is telling me I have no right to judge others who support abortion. I’m running out of responses because this person is like a broken record, calling me nutbag repeatedly, a fanatic, and ineffective in defending the pro-life position… Because I’m not cuddling up to the pro-abortion people commenting there. I’m glad I found this thread and the responses. Thanks. 👍
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Ouch! I can just imagine the comments, the slings and arrows of the outrageous responses you’ve had to endure over at YouTube. That place can resemble a modern coliseum when things heat up…and they usually do. Oy. And isn’t it funny when the people who accuse us of being hateful, judgmental (and therefore intolerant) are the very ones doing the slinging?

I’ve had to bear my share of this abuse too. And I’m sure I’ll have to bear with it for a long time to come. 'Cause I’m committed to the cause and I ain’t gonna give up! Don’t you give up, you’re not alone, even if sometimes feel like you are.

Peace be with you.
Disciple
 
PRmerger said:
Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions.

Here’s the ironic (don’t know that’s the correct word here) part–the day that my friend was to be married by a judge–a Wednesday–her father died unexpectedly. My husband and children and I attended the visitation, sent a donation to a family charity and had masses offered for her father…

I have not heard a word from her that she received the mass card nor anything acknowledging the donation.

I suppose it wouldn’t be charitable for me to send her an email that says, “Just wondering if you received the Mass Card and donation? I believe I sent that to you after I judged you…” :tsktsk: sigh I know, I know–I won’t do it.

I do want to mend the relationship, but part of me (I am a Lion in temperament–good and bad :sad_yes:) says, “Scr*w You! I didn’t just cavalierly decide to hurt your feelings by telling you I couldn’t attend the wedding!”
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Not that I know anything, but in your shoes, I’d just wait for her to make the next move. Be open to reconsiling with her, but don’t bang your head against a brick wall. You did the right thing in both actions.

I can’t remember the exact lines anymore, but in A Man for All Seasons, Thomas Moore is asked by one of his nobleman friends to go along with Henry’s divorce and remarriage for the sake of fellowship. He asks his friend if he’ll be going to hell with him for the sake of fellowship because he didn’t follow his conscience. The actual quote is quite moving and appropriate, but I can’t think of it. It’s been 36 years since I did that play.
 
daeve said:
I can’t remember the exact lines anymore, but in A Man for All Seasons, Thomas Moore is asked by one of his nobleman friends to go along with Henry’s divorce and remarriage for the sake of fellowship. He asks his friend if he’ll be going to hell with him for the sake of fellowship because he didn’t follow his conscience.
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Oooh, good quote, daeve! That’s an excellent point. And an excellent movie too. 🙂
 
Disciple96 said:
Oooh, good quote, daeve! That’s an excellent point. And an excellent movie too. 🙂
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I have lots of good quotes after 20 years in the theatre, but hardly anyone gets them. That may be the only thing I miss about my ex-husband…he got my jokes.
 
Hi Yall:
This is another story that I have put up on a blog I write payingattentiontothesky.wordpress.com/422/
I’d be very appreciative of any feedback you could give me – either here or there.

I’ve titled in Failing Christian Fellowship and it relates a few years of a relationship I had with a fellow who was very helpful to me in my conversion to the Catholic Church. There are a lot of different issues swirling about here – Theodicy and a disagreement that turns nasty.

Thanks in advance for any comments, views, etc. It falls into the general theme here of Catholics judging other Catholics but with a slightly different twist.

DJ
 
bflochica5 said:
For what it’s worth, I dealt with almost an identical situation last year with my long-term friend. She was raised Catholic, strayed for awhile, seemed to come back to the faith, got married in the Church, was actively going to Mass and participating in ministries, etc. In other words, it seemed she had truly “come home” after a long searching journey and life seemed swell. That’s until an ex-boyfriend re-entered her life and she left her husband for him. I stood up to her and told her what she was doing was wrong (especially since her daughter was only 6 months old) on so many levels and for so many reasons. I too was accused of judging and not being a supportive friend. We didn’t talk for a few months at all.

But the eventual outcome was this–we started talking again slowly, only once in a long while and only about very specific things (such as, “Does your daughter need size __ clothes? Because I have some here for you”). And then over time things started to defrost a little. When she was calmer, she did ask me to explain myself better, and she made a point of telling me her side of things. I still didn’t agree with her, but at least the air was slightly more cleared. Since then, I’ve set some boundaries. We can talk on the phone but only about things that don’t involve her new relationship. We can visit in neutral places (such as a park) or at my house but I won’t go to the house she shares with new guy or attend gatherings that would show the appearance of a happy family, such as a birthday party.

I don’t know if any of this is the best way of dealing with things, but it’s been kind of OK so far, and at least I feel like my conscience is clear. She knows where I stand and she no longer pesters me to change my mind, including about the boundaries, even though I know they bother her. If anything, I hope this offers you a bit of perspective, because time does offer that. We’re not as close as we used to be, but at least we can share Mom stories and stuff, and I value at least that much. Best wishes in your situation.
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I think you handled this situation well.

I have a somewhat similar relationship with certain siblings. I refuse to go to where my sister is living (with her boyfriend) but I keep in touch in “general” terms.I send a bd gift via another relative.

As for one of my brothers, he lives at a distance and I never did see him often. About 18 months ago we had a very long discussion about several subjects: abortion, voting, homosexuality, you know–the ones that get discussed!! Long story short he got very defensive when I presented several facts to him. It was obvious that he had thought he had all the info there was to know and I burst that bubble by my comments.

I still send cards (bd and Christmas) and I send either the Mass cards or the kind from the Miraculous Medal organization where a candle is lit for intentions.

I have a disturbing hunch that he is involved in nonCatholic and nonChristian spirituality as he has interests in other cultures. (he, of course, believes the U.S. is a “bad” nation and the big bad corporations are the devil incarnate, and rich people are evil, if you get my drift.) SO brainwashed!!

I even told him “I think your sources brainwashed you.” Yes, it was blunt, but I think he needs that sort of shock to begin thinking. He says he “reads” (heaven knows WHAT type of garbage he reads!) so he thinks he has all the answers.

Pretty difficult to get a real conversation going, believe me! I just keep praying for him, my sister, and my other siblings who just want to smile, be “nice” and not make waves. Excuse me, but isn’t that being lukewarm, and didn’t Our Lord warn against that??

Anyway, I think we have to have a type of “tough love” and be more blunt and open to those who have taken the wrong path. Still love them, but do now allow them to shove their immorality down your throat by ridiculous comments. I would never even consider, for example, attending a party for a relative living in sin who got pregnant. (Yup–was invited. It was for my niece and her shack-up boyfriend. Nope didn’t attend. I sent a nice card, note and present, along with a St. Gerard leaflet and medal. Sends a message!)

Really, we need to always have an answer for anything not in line with Our Lord’s teachings. We better make sure we speak out when we need to, and do so with love.
 
SallyMargie said:
I still send cards (bd and Christmas) and I send either the Mass cards or the kind from the Miraculous Medal organization where a candle is lit for intentions…

Pretty difficult to get a real conversation going, believe me! I just keep praying for him, my sister, and my other siblings who just want to smile, be “nice” and not make waves. Excuse me, but isn’t that being lukewarm, and didn’t Our Lord warn against that?? …

Anyway, I think we have to have a type of “tough love” and be more blunt and open to those who have taken the wrong path. Still love them, but do now allow them to shove their immorality down your throat by ridiculous comments. I would never even consider, for example, attending a party for a relative living in sin who got pregnant. (Yup–was invited. It was for my niece and her shack-up boyfriend. Nope didn’t attend. I sent a nice card, note and present, along with a St. Gerard leaflet and medal. Sends a message!)

Really, we need to always have an answer for anything not in line with Our Lord’s teachings. We better make sure we speak out when we need to, and do so with love.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. We have to speak out with love and we have to pray for people who insist on acting and living immorally and also insist on trying to justify their immorality by watering down or ignoring the truth we have received from Christ. I think your way of speaking with your friends and family and offering prayer and sending Mass cards is a wonderful witness, SallyMargie. Not always but too often those who say we should witness without words really mean we should ignore what’s really going on and not rock the boat. They want to take the easy out and they want us to let them.

My dad says “religion is private” by which he really means that his religion doesn’t require anything of him and he likes it that way. Ain’t much of a religion, as far as I can see. It’s just something he does for an hour on Sundays. My religion requires a lot from me: sacrifice of time, money, effort, pride, words and actions. If I see someone who needs help, I can’t just wish him luck. I have to help. Sometimes that means I have to do something, sometimes it means I have to say something. Sometimes it means I have to do both. What kind of Christian am I if I refuse?
 
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