What's a clear, charitable "come-back" for protestants?

[qui_est_ce]

In darkness there is no color and no private sight.

James

ONE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH (Council of Nicea,325, Council of Constantinople, 381)

 

[jwashu]

Ah Fred… I was once like you, of course I was only in 6th grade at the time but still.

Through study and prayer my father and I were able to find out most of the Jack Chick type stuff you propose was not true. Just like the man who wrote the book which Chick and others pull from recounted that most of his initial book from the 60s was in error.

That did not lead us from our Baptist Church at the time but did focus us on the message of Christ rather than the bigotry of men.

As I later became a Presbyterian Youth Director and investigated reformed theology God was telling me that there was more.

After 20 or so years as a Presbyterian, through much prayer, reading and study I now know that the Catholic Church is indeed that one founded by Christ.

Don’t take my word for it though, start by letting go of your hate. Ask Christ to Forgive you for judging your Brothers and to send the Spirit for wisdom. Take a step back and try to look at the Bible as whole. Ask why each Gospel author stated thing the way the did, and how that could tie back to the Hebrew texts.

My youngest son was Baptized Catholic back in November and it was a truly moving experience (my other 2 are Baptised Presbyterian) because so much of the Rite, if you know your Bible, was more scriptural than anything I have seen in a Protestant Church.

Sometimes the Truth is not where we would expect it. Look at the Hebrews who had been expecting a warrior messiah for hundreds of years…

You are in my Prayers!

Joe

 

[Mannyfit75]

FredSmith:

He does. Have you read his posts? Nothing is capitalized, there is no punctuation, nothing is spelled correctly and, often, the words don’t even make sense.

Don’t make me laugh. There are capitalization in my posts.

I even look up the word idiot, which you claim that I mispelled. Well, it wasn’t mispelled. Look it up yourself.

Perhaps, you may have confused me with some other Forum member here.

I think you need to look over what I wrote. Yes, I admit I may have not put the proper punctuation; at least I try.

I don’t know who died and made you an English teacher, but your actions here are uncharitable.

My own actions have not been charitable as well. Non-Catholic Christians who come here and debate with us, annoys me. They come to this forum and think they can evangelize us and tell us that our Catholic faith is erroneous.

You know what I think, Fred? You have a hidden agenda and your goal here is lure Catholics out of their faith.

Luckily, I know enough not to abandon my Catholic faith.

Fred, you aren’t the first Protestant who come here challenging us. Some have come here and others have been banned.

You are also a newbie, a beginner in this forum. You think have what its take to challenge us but you will be surprise there are many Catholics here who know their faith and defend it.

I will also let you know. I **dislike people **like you. You distort the truth of the Catholic faith and think you know it all. You don’t know our Catholic faith. You have misconceptions about the Church. You exchange truth for a lie by calling our “Catholic” beliefs as erroneous.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Interesting thought, Pax. It makes me wonder, though - I know that my eyes are brown, but doesn’t that still make brown a color?

The truer analogy would be that your eyes will always be eyes regardless their color. The Church being the eyes and denominational churches (nondenom. included) being the color of the eyes.

The Catholic Church will always be Christ’s true Church regardless of what color or favor people give to it to make it believable to themselves.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You know what I think, Fred? You have a hidden agenda and your goal here is lure Catholics out of their faith.

Manny, remember a few other Protestants who wrote that they started out coming to CAF to aggravate us, and they ended up converting? I think Tef might have been one.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The truer analogy would be that your eyes will always be eyes regardless their color. The Church being the eyes and denominational churches (nondenom. included) being the color of the eyes.

The Catholic Church will always be Christ’s true Church regardless of what color or favor people give to it to make it believable to themselves.

You mistpelled flavor

 

[SD_Catholic]

Fred… I am now beggining to think you might actually be a Catholic conducting some type of experiment just to see how uncharitable you can make us… is this a joke of some kind Fred? Whatever it is, your style of conversation is quite annoying, and so as not to waste any more of my time trying to communicate with someone who refuses to communicate I will avoid this thread. Sorry Fred, you won’t win this soul… Peace out!!!:dts:

SD

 

[FredSmith]

Ah Fred… I was once like you, of course I was only in 6th grade at the time but still.

I’ll be sure to add that one to the list.

Through study and prayer my father and I were able to find out most of the Jack Chick type stuff you propose was not true.

And when did I ever say anything about Jack Chick?

Don’t take my word for it though, start by letting go of your hate.

Maybe if you let go of your hatred, you might become a Christian.

Ask Christ to Forgive you for judging your Brothers and to send the Spirit for wisdom.

Ask God to forgive me for something He commanded us to do in the first place?

Take a step back and try to look at the Bible as whole. Ask why each Gospel author stated thing the way the did, and how that could tie back to the Hebrew texts.

What is your background in theology?

 

[Sean_Boyle]

He does. Have you read his posts? Nothing is capitalized, there is no punctuation, nothing is spelled correctly and, often, the words don’t even make sense.

Manny is probably a little to busy to worry about such trival things like grammar. He is busy fighting for your freedom and for the freedom of others thru-out the world. Think about that.

 

[Erich]

I say when someone says something “anti-Catholic” to you, smile and say, “Thank you for telling me that.”

Well put. I’ll have to try to remember to do that!

Nothing except praying to the dead, worshipping Mary, Purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, sprinkling children, etc.

Thank you for telling me that

That quote must contain at least six thread starters, but since the “quotee” hasn’t started any threads on any topics as of this writing, I can only assume he’s not interested in learning the truth.

That said, I should point out CA’s article on Purgatory:

Christ refers to the sinner who “will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come” (Matt. 12:32), suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins. Similarly, Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? “He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor 3:15). Now this loss, this penalty, can’t refer to consignment to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering (“fire”) there. The Catholic doctrine of purgatory alone explains this passage.

Then, of course, there is the Bible’s approval of prayers for the dead: “In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; for if he were not expecting the dead to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin” (2 Macc. 12:43–45). Prayers are not needed by those in heaven, and no one can help those in hell. That means some people must be in a third condition, at least temporarily. This verse so clearly illustrates the existence of purgatory that, at the time of the Reformation, Protestants had to cut the books of the Maccabees out of their Bibles in order to avoid accepting the doctrine.

But, they didn’t cut out 2 Timothy… in 2 Tim 1:16-18, St. Paul prays for mercy “to the family of Onesiphorus” (who seems to have died before this letter was written… because in 2 Tim 4:19, St. Paul sends greetings to “Prisca and Aquila and the family of Onesiphorus”) and that “the Lord grant him (i.e. Onesiphorus) to find mercy from the Lord on that day.” So, if no less an authority than St. Paul can pray for someone who is no longer with us in this earthly life, that’s good enough for me.

I could, of course, go on… but I’ll wait for the “quotee” to start the thread.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Culled thread of off topic and irrelevant posts. Please try to focus on the topic.

Sorry for the delay in dealing with this problem.
MF

 

[Elizabeth2]

No, I did not misunderstand the scriptures. Either you’re relying on Christ’s atonement alone, or you’re not.

Read the whole passage, please. Jesus alredy explained that He is talking to the unsaved.

Charitable works do not do one thing to merit salvation.

Do you believe then that you are saved and can do as you please? Lead an immoral life, but because you have been saved, you will be saved regardless?

I read the whole passage, it’s Matthew 25 not 24 as I thought, and I can find no where, where Jesus says he is talking to the unsaved. Show me where he says that. Just before that passage comes the parable of the talents. The wicked and lazy servant buried his talents, and didn’t do anything and he was thrown into the dark, “where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.” Matt 25:30

In Matthew 7:21 Jesus says “Not everyone who says to me Lord, Lord will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven.”

 

[guanophore]

Fulton Sheen. But I don’t find that very charitable.

It is the same message Jesus gave to the Samaritan woman, so if you think it is uncharitable, you will have to take it up with Jesus. Jesus commands us to worship Him in spirit, and in truth. He designed the method whereby that should happen. People who ignore His way are falling short of true worship.

 

[qui_est_ce]

It is the same message Jesus gave to the Samaritan woman, so if you think it is uncharitable, you will have to take it up with Jesus. Jesus commands us to worship Him in spirit, and in truth. He designed the method whereby that should happen. People who ignore His way are falling short of true worship.

Give me the verse. The Samaritan woman was asking Jesus questions, and was ready to reform her life. She recognized who Jesus was. I don’t think saying that to a nonCatholic in Rome who is trying to be nice to a seminarian would go far in evangelizing. We say it in RCIA, but like the Samaritan woman, they are ready to see that Catholic is Jesus’ way.

 

[guanophore]

Give me the verse. The Samaritan woman was asking Jesus questions, and was ready to reform her life. She recognized who Jesus was. I don’t think saying that to a nonCatholic in Rome who is trying to be nice to a seminarian would go far in evangelizing. We say it in RCIA, but like the Samaritan woman, they are ready to see that Catholic is Jesus’ way.

Oh, I agree!

I was just responding to what was said about Bishop Sheen’s
comeback. I think context is everything, and the comment in and of itself is not uncharitable.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Oh, I agree!

I was just responding to what was said about Bishop Sheen’s
comeback. I think context is everything, and the comment in and of itself is not uncharitable.

Good, because you were hard on me, and criticism from you carries more weight than criticism from j4a

 

[MonFrere]

Something that would not turn them off but rather make them think twice and perhaps open up to a deeper conversation…

If you want to open up to a deeper conversation then maybe answer in the affirmative and then smile and say something like – And what brought you to Rome?

If they are the talkative type this might begin a good conversation. Just take it where it leads.

MonFrere

 

[Newbie2]

As a seminarian I usually travel through Rome wearing the Roman collar which usually grabs the attention of many tourists, etc… Many of them stop to talk and many of them happen to be protestants who are open/respectful towards the Catholic Church, yet set in their ways. When I inquire if they are Catholics they usually respond, “**No Father, we belong a non-denominational church… But in the end, we both worship the same God. Right?”. **

Sometimes I’m not sure how to take advantage of the occasion to respond charitably without leading them to believe that I think its indifferent to be Catholic or non-denominational.

From your experience, could anyone recommend a clear, charitable “come-back” for these occasions? Something that would not turn them off but rather make them think twice and perhaps open up to a deeper conversation…

Thank you and God bless you.

If they say “X is true” reply, "Is not! and if they say "X is false, reply, “Is too!”

 

[Syele]

I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years before converting to Catholicism in 2004.

You are a priest, right? You are Christ’s representative on this earth.

Here is my suggestion. Answer, “Yes we do,” since after all, theologically, they are correct. You will not be disavowing the Catholic Church to admit that Protestants are correct in some of their views.

Then offer to bless them.

If they hesitate, ask them if they’ve read Pastor Gary Smalley’s book, The Blessing. (You might want to get hold of this book and read it yourself first.)

Gary Smalley was my pastor in the church I grew up in and he is accepted by evangelical Protestants as a paragon of solid Biblical truth.

His book The Blessing is all about the importance of Christians blessing each other, as outlined in the Scriptures. Offering a blessing to someone is a very “Biblical” thing for Christians to do. It is not some wierd “Catholic” ritual.

So if they refuse the blessing, suggest that they read Pastor Smalley’s book, and then smile and say your goodbye. Please say a private prayer for them, though.

But hopefully your Protestant friend will say yes to your request to bless them.

So do your priestly work and give them a blessing.

They will be extremely touched, and believe me, they will never, ever forget it. Your touch and your words of blessing will stay in their hearts and minds forever.

Protestants have very few “tangibles” in their practice of Christianity to cling to, and when they do have contact with a “tangible”, it is very meaningful to them. I believe that many Protestants are absolutely starved for the “tangibles,” which not only include the seven sacraments (especially Eucharist), but also tangibles like human touch, blessings, the Sign of the Cross, Rosaries, Holy Water, candles, art work, etc.

I believe this is one reason why Protestants “church hop.” They are searching for substance, for something “real,” and they think they can find it by being more “spiritual.” They don’t realize that it is in the physical that God reveals Himself and works in us. They haven’t connected this with the Incarnation of Jesus and His physical coming and dwelling and dying among us. Instead, they have the incorrect idea that the “physical” is of this world and therefore, should be avoided. So they continue to starve and continue to wander about seeking a place “to be fed.”

I and my husband were starved for all these tangibles, and when we started attending the Catholic Church, we felt like we had stumbled into a castle full of rich treasures.

Our daughter, who is a professional stage manager, feels the same way. Long before she decided to become Catholic, she said that all the other churches are just “pageants,” while the Mass is the real thing.

I believe your powerful blessing, offered as Christ’s representative, will continue to work in their lives and eventually bring them home to the Catholic church.

God bless you as you witness in love to those outside of the Catholic Church!

Hi,

I have read all of the posts and suggestions and as a born again christian who goes to a non-denom church the only effective response is the one CAT offered.

All of the other responses will be perceived as arrogant and condescending.

Thanks CAT

I agree 100% with Cat on this. Say yes, Offer a blessing. You could also take it a step further and invite them to Mass.

 

[CentralFLJames]

If you want to open up to a deeper conversation then maybe answer in the affirmative and then smile and say something like – And what brought you to Rome?

If they are the talkative type this might begin a good conversation. Just take it where it leads.

MonFrere

That’s brilliant MonFrere!

The spiritual message and implications are that the Holy Spirit is at work and that these people are not yet consciously aware that they are imperfect members of The Holy Catholic Church; and whether they like to admit it or not really are involuntarily subordinate to Christ’s Vicar on Earth (e.g. the Pope).

There’s an opportunity for a double finesse here. They will no doubt be standing there in a moment of numb silence both contemplating the implications while panicking in trying to think up a polite defensive retort. In that instant the priest should go on offense again with a quick blessing. Then abruptly turn on his heel to walk off while making another comment: “Our Holy Father gives his papal blessings at 10:30AM, don’t miss it!”.

That should be the double touche’ that strikes to the heart of the matter.

James