What's a "man's" work duty?

[Polluted]

Why these extremes?

I’m starting to think that there may be some mental health stuff going on that is affecting how you view this situation. It’s like you’ve got a lens in your head that splits things into two different black and white extreme options, whereas in real life, there is a huge continuum of different possibilities.

I think you may need to accept the possibility that (while you may be a very bright guy–I really think you are), your decision-making apparatus is broken–if you don’t believe me, look at all the messes it has gotten you into. I encourage you going forward to not make major decisions without a green light from somebody who knows you and your situation well.

I have zero support, no car, mounds of debt, and without this living situation no where to live. You say mentally ill, then bright guy in the same breath…obviously you have never been poor with ZERO safety net. The things I speak of are not a doomsday scenario but a reality. A reality that I have already gone through before. How do you think that guy on the street corner ends up there? The only other place I can afford to live with some support from my friends is way up state. That’s it. I can find another job and a room to rent at a reasonable rate and at least have a couch to crash on while I job hunt.

 

[Xantippe]

5k

But keep in mind I’m broke as heck. Just like the story if the Lady in the good book who gave all she had. We are all footing the bill for the wedding. All I have to do is be patient, cohabit for a few years, swallow my pride, and meet her at the alter when it’s up to her standards.

$5k is not “Say Yes to the Dress” by any stretch of the imagination.

I was looking this up, and the boutique that does Say Yes to the Dress suggests that brides have a $2.5k minimum budget just for the dress.

$5k is a very moderate wedding in this day and age–indeed admirably frugal.

Your old $60k salary is also not the lap of luxury. While the median US household income is around $51k, the median income in 2012 for a four-person family is around $65k and has been higher.

infoplease.com/ipa/A0104583.html

Whatever salary would put your family at the US median income is not crazy luxurious.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

You need a plan, you need to start looking for another job and try to come up with a budget. It sounds like this woman could chuck you out.

 

[Polluted]

$5k is not “Say Yes to the Dress” by any stretch of the imagination.

I was looking this up, and the boutique that does Say Yes to the Dress suggests that brides have a $2.5k minimum budget just for the dress.

$5k is a very moderate wedding in this day and age–indeed admirably frugal.

Your old $60k salary is also not the lap of luxury. While the median US household income is around $51k, the median income in 2012 for a four-person family is around $65k and has been higher.

infoplease.com/ipa/A0104583.html

Whatever salary would put your family at the US median income is not crazy luxurious.

I love it! Someone telling a guy who live in a tent 2 years ago. 5k is frugal! Not to mention your HOUSEHOLD income figures are exactly that. The HOUSEHOLD not 1 person when on average 2 people are working in a house. In other words 60k is WELL over the 25k average salary a single person makes on US soil. If she found a similar job we would be pushing 6 figures for our average income. It boggles my mind how twisted folks views are with money. And they say my thought process is distorted

It’s just thousands and thousands of dollars for a 1 day event! WHATS the big deal man?! No wonder when I go to Latin America I get charged the double for a hotdog

 

[Polluted]

You need a plan, you need to start looking for another job and try to come up with a budget. It sounds like this woman could chuck you out.

I have enough money for a bus ticket and to cover my bills for 2 months. I need to know asap what her plan is once I crush this fantasy.

 

[Xantippe]

I have zero support, no car, mounds of debt, and without this living situation no where to live. You say mentally ill, then bright guy in the same breath…obviously you have never been poor with ZERO safety net. The things I speak of are not a doomsday scenario but a reality. A reality that I have already gone through before. How do you think that guy on the street corner ends up there? The only other place I can afford to live with some support from my friends is way up state. That’s it. I can find another job and a room to rent at a reasonable rate and at least have a couch to crash on while I job hunt.

It is possible to be both mentally ill and bright at the same time. We have an old friend who discovered (after two divorces and two kids) that he was bipolar in his mid-40s. He also wound up with no safety net–but that is a very natural result of the mental illness, because it eventually caused him to alienate everybody close to him (up to and including being kicked out of a group home). He’d also get a lot of ideas out of the blue. At the same time, he’s very bright and energetic, so he’d been able to talk his way into some very good jobs–and then lose them. A lot of your posts remind me of that situation.

I actually do have another personal connection. Namely, that my dad, while an excellent worker and very conscientious about my education, shared your philosophy about how little children need when I was a kid. So, instead of using his education and working a good school district job with benefits, he chose to support our family on a patchwork of gigs. It’s only now that I am a mom with a growing family and a lot of personal finance experience that I understand that he put us into totally unnecessary poverty. During most of my growing up, my dad chose to raise us on as close to nothing as possible in order to live the lifestyle he preferred, just as you want to work low-paying 40-hour a week jobs, because that is the lifestyle you prefer. We didn’t have any health insurance when I was a kid and there was medical and dental neglect at times. I know now (because I’m the same age) that it had to be very hard on my mom–for example, they moved three kids into an unfinished house and spent the next five years working on it. My parents argued a LOT about money when I was a kid. When I was a kid and idolized my dad, I thought it was just because my mom was bad with money. But now that I’m an adult, I realize that there just wasn’t enough money. Fortunately, my grandparents were standing by to pick up the slack–they took care of our birthdays (my parents virtually never celebrated our birthdays at home), they had a Christmas tree, and 90+% of the time, they bought our shoes. Now that I have three kids of my own and have to do all that stuff on our family income, I realize what a big deal that was. Also, whenever my dad hit a rough spot with work, he’d move us in with my grandparents. My dad was fooling himself if he thought that he was supporting our family.

Your ideal is not a FAMILY ideal. It might work as a bachelor guy ideal, but an actual dad has to think about other people’s needs, and he can’t just be letting other people pay for his children’s basic needs. I feel like the reason that you can be so casual about your kids’ need for good income from you is that you have never raised children for any substantial length of time or been responsible for any substantial length of time for the financial needs of a whole household. Once kids hit school age, they get more and more expensive in terms of cash outlays, but you just haven’t been around to see that phase yet.

 

[Xantippe]

I love it! Someone telling a guy who live in a tent 2 years ago. 5k is frugal! Not to mention your HOUSEHOLD income figures are exactly that. The HOUSEHOLD not 1 person when on average 2 people are working in a house. In other words 60k is WELL over the 25k average salary a single person makes on US soil. If she found a similar job we would be pushing 6 figures for our average income. It boggles my mind how twisted folks views are with money. And they say my thought process is distorted

**It’s just thousands and thousands of dollars for a 1 day event! **WHATS the big deal man?! No wonder when I go to Latin America I get charged the double for a hotdog

You were planning to marry into a Hispanic family and you don’t like big splashy one-day events?

 

[Lou2U]

That’s a wonderful attitude you have towards me and my children. In fact it’s the same attitude the 30% of women who have had an abortion have as well. What can I say? Go ahead and tell me to stop “procreation” yet at the same time tell me “don’t masturbate” and “don’t use birth control”. Do you see the recipe here that might make a man in my position have a few kids out of wedlock?

We can say well “just don’t have sex”. Not that simple when I am biologically wired in my prime to have sex AND I have mommy issues that causes me to seek out intimacy with girls who don’t have my best interest at heart.

Having said that though trust me I’m on YOUR side. In fact if I had it my way this would be annulment #2 I would be getting with this relationship. I tried to marry both these women a LONG time ago and BOTH refused the wedding could offer in my poverty and wanted to wait and wait and WAIT so they can all get that nice wedding they see in the movies and secular TV. The good Lord knows I would had married each of them but these girls are the ones who have CHOSEN not to. You get it?

And what good does that solve eh? You tell me. Do you really think just because you have a wedding somehow you are now immune from splitting up? Not the case my friend. At least I didn’t waste years if my life in an unhappy marriage only to have either of these girls get fed up and leave me broken hearted WITH an alimony payment of top of it while I slave to provide a life that will always fall short of what they want. Nor did either of my little men go through a nasty divorce.

You have self control. It is a lie you tell yourself when you say you are “made” to have children out of wedlock. You do yourself, the women and your children a disservice.

If you don’t want to get married, don’t. If you don’t want to be tied to women you are incompatible with, don’t have premarital sex.

All the posters here are trying to help you. You may dislike or disagree with what we say. It is up to you to work out why that is. You won’t get anywhere with self pity and bitterness. Be proactive, take responsibility for your actions, and if you don’t like the consequences of those actions, don’t choose to make them again.

Lou

 

[Polluted]

All I’m saying is right now I got my 5 year old with me rocking a brand new set of teeth because of his bottle rot he had ad a kid that I footed the bill for. ::drops microphone::

It’s easy to analyze me psychologically and guess “mental illness” when the cold harsh reality is I was raised by an unstable mother and a father who eventually moved and carries an 18 out the door mentality. Mental illness wasn’t to blame for my scenario. Getting in trouble at 18 was with the law. After that much of my family essentially disowned me. Shame really lost allot of connection and an inheritance too.

But that was a decade ago and I’m doing the best I can now. The job I had was a joke and unrealistic. And now I’m struggling not to do something catastrophic marriage wise

 

[Polluted]

You have self control. It is a lie you tell yourself when you say you are “made” to have children out of wedlock. You do yourself, the women and your children a disservice.

If you don’t want to get married, don’t. If you don’t want to be tied to women you are incompatible with, don’t have premarital sex.

All the posters here are trying to help you. You may dislike or disagree with what we say. It is up to you to work out why that is. You won’t get anywhere with self pity and bitterness. Be proactive, take responsibility for your actions, and if you don’t like the consequences of those actions, don’t choose to make them again.

Lou

Where did I NOT take responsibility? All I’m saying is life isn’t as black and white as you all want to make it. Just don’t have sex! Easier said than done ffolks. Especially when Katie Perry is practically screaming at me on the radio to make love to random girls!

 

[AClaire11]

Where did I NOT take responsibility? All I’m saying is life isn’t as black and white as you all want to make it. Just don’t have sex! Easier said than done ffolks. Especially when Katie Perry is practically screaming at me on the radio to make love to random girls!

Is this a joke? You have to have sex because of songs on the radio? Plenty of men and women are able to abstain both in and out of marriage.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Seriously have you and your fiance actually had a serious discussion over this yet? Have you started looking for other jobs?

 

[heidi_storage]

OP: Get some competent spiritual and mental health help. Now.

 

[Lou2U]

Where did I NOT take responsibility? All I’m saying is life isn’t as black and white as you all want to make it. Just don’t have sex! Easier said than done ffolks. Especially when Katie Perry is practically screaming at me on the radio to make love to random girls!

This is what I’m talking about. Katy Perry singing songs on the radio about having sex does not mean you have to have sex. If it affects you that badly, turn it off. You are in control of your actions and as I said, you do yourself a disservice when you claim otherwise.

You make your choices. If you don’t like the consequences, don’t make the same choices again. It really is that black and white.

Lou

 

[pianistclare]

Right. this is not about a pricey (in your view) wedding.
This is now 3 kids out of wedlock.
Marriage is what the issue is.
Get married if you love her and will support her, this child, and the other two kids.
If not, don’t lay everything on a “big wedding”.
That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
If she is Hispanic, I suppose her extended family will foot the bill anyway.

 

[Polluted]

You know whats cute to me. The fact that If I had been married with these kids but THEN divorce and was over in the annulment thread you folks would be singing “You poor thing, I promise im praying for you, stay strong”.

However I have a few kids OUTSIDE marriage (which was not my choice by the way I tried very hard to marry both women…suddenly you folks are all screaming about how spiritually and mentally unstable I am. What a joke. All of your eyes are blind-sighted by secularism and the warped view of reality you hold mirrors NOTHING of a solid faith life. The Lord knows where my hearts stands, and unlike you folks im actually willing to change things in my life BEFORE they end up in a lifetime of misery, a divorce, or any other fate deemed “Normal” once it happens because so many of the cowards and holy rollers aren’t brave enough to make changes when its needed most.

Not to mention your sheltered first world, westernized view of money is sickening and reflects NOTHING of what the rest of this world faces. Go volunteer for a few months in a country like Guatemala like I did and see how good you guys have it even at a minimum wage level here in the United states. Everyones down to face our Lord on the alter but when it comes to our lives, folks cling the dollar bill fast as humanly possible. You wanna know where I stand with cash?

When my grandmother died she left me 25k. I never saw a dime of it until finally my mother finally decided to throw 8k into my bank account to get herself a nice phat tax break. Then threatened to call my first babies mama and tell her about all these thousands of dollars I had sitting around and said if I didnt quietly accept it…she would contact the IRS and make me pay taxes on all of it as well.

Know what I did with that cash? EVERY SINGLE CENT was throw into a homeless foundation in my mothers name. 8 grand! GONE Then I worked in a Kitchen for minimum wage, living in a tent so I could save up money and help provide and visit my first Son. You cowards know nothing of sacrifice, and you worship/chase money just like everyone else…just like this women who Im supposed to marry this January, not a single person here is willing to actually fall back and let the Lord catch you. And in doing so you have all been given a prison sentenced. You might feel like you have financial security but 1 dose of reality can wipe it all away! A health diagnosis, a divorce, a crash in the economy. I know how to survive with little, with little support, how to feed myself with healthy food and pay my bills. However each of you guys are chained inside a mental prison.

The saints are smiling on me imperials! Can you say the same?

 

[pianistclare]

All I’m saying is right now I got my 5 year old with me rocking a brand new set of teeth because of his bottle rot he had ad a kid that I footed the bill for. ::drops microphone::

It’s easy to analyze me psychologically and guess “mental illness” when the cold harsh reality is I was raised by an unstable mother and a father who eventually moved and carries an 18 out the door mentality. Mental illness wasn’t to blame for my scenario. Getting in trouble at 18 was with the law. After that much of my family essentially disowned me. Shame really lost allot of connection and an inheritance too.

But that was a decade ago and I’m doing the best I can now. The job I had was a joke and unrealistic. And now I’m struggling not to do something catastrophic marriage wise

You want a medal for doing right by your child?
You’re not ready for parenthood. And not because you don’t think you make enough money.
Stop having children with women you don’t think you can support thoroughly. .
Sounds like you’re looking for an out anyway.

 

[heidi_storage]

You know whats cute to me. The fact that If I had been married with these kids but THEN divorce and was over in the annulment thread you folks would be singing “You poor thing, I promise im praying for you, stay strong”.

However I have a few kids OUTSIDE marriage (which was not my choice by the way I tried very hard to marry both women…suddenly you folks are all screaming about how spiritually and mentally unstable I am. What a joke. All of your eyes are blind-sighted by secularism and the warped view of reality you hold mirrors NOTHING of a solid faith life. The Lord knows where my hearts stands, and unlike you folks im actually willing to change things in my life BEFORE they end up in a lifetime of misery, a divorce, or any other fate deemed “Normal” once it happens because so many of the cowards and holy rollers aren’t brave enough to make changes when its needed most.

Not to mention your sheltered first world, westernized view of money is sickening and reflects NOTHING of what the rest of this world faces. Go volunteer for a few months in a country like Guatemala like I did and see how good you guys have it even at a minimum wage level here in the United states. Everyones down to face our Lord on the alter but when it comes to our lives, folks cling the dollar bill fast as humanly possible. You wanna know where I stand with cash?

When my grandmother died she left me 25k. I never saw a dime of it until finally my mother finally decided to throw 8k into my bank account to get herself a nice phat tax break. Then threatened to call my first babies mama and tell her about all these thousands of dollars I had sitting around and said if I didnt quietly accept it…she would contact the IRS and make me pay taxes on all of it as well.

Know what I did with that cash? EVERY SINGLE CENT was throw into a homeless foundation in my mothers name. 8 grand! GONE Then I worked in a Kitchen for minimum wage, living in a tent so I could save up money and help provide and visit my first Son. You cowards know nothing of sacrifice, and you worship/chase money just like everyone else…just like this women who Im supposed to marry this January, not a single person here is willing to actually fall back and let the Lord catch you. And in doing so you have all been given a prison sentenced. You might feel like you have financial security but 1 dose of reality can wipe it all away! A health diagnosis, a divorce, a crash in the economy. I know how to survive with little, with little support, how to feed myself with healthy food and pay my bills. However each of you guys are chained inside a mental prison.

The saints are smiling on me imperials! Can you say the same?

Please get help. I’m concerned for you.

 

[PPeterson]

unfortunately 5k is a church hall and spaghetti for everyone kind of reception. unless you do potluck it’s going to be hard to do much better

 

[AdamP88]

You know whats cute to me. The fact that If I had been married with these kids but THEN divorce and was over in the annulment thread you folks would be singing “You poor thing, I promise im praying for you, stay strong”.

**However I have a few kids OUTSIDE marriage (which was not my choice by the way I tried very hard to marry both women…suddenly you folks are all screaming about how spiritually and mentally unstable I am. What a joke. **All of your eyes are blind-sighted by secularism and the warped view of reality you hold mirrors NOTHING of a solid faith life. The Lord knows where my hearts stands, and unlike you folks im actually willing to change things in my life BEFORE they end up in a lifetime of misery, a divorce, or any other fate deemed “Normal” once it happens because so many of the cowards and holy rollers aren’t brave enough to make changes when its needed most.

Not to mention your sheltered first world, westernized view of money is sickening and reflects NOTHING of what the rest of this world faces. Go volunteer for a few months in a country like Guatemala like I did and see how good you guys have it even at a minimum wage level here in the United states. Everyones down to face our Lord on the alter but when it comes to our lives, folks cling the dollar bill fast as humanly possible. You wanna know where I stand with cash?

When my grandmother died she left me 25k. I never saw a dime of it until finally my mother finally decided to throw 8k into my bank account to get herself a nice phat tax break. Then threatened to call my first babies mama and tell her about all these thousands of dollars I had sitting around and said if I didnt quietly accept it…she would contact the IRS and make me pay taxes on all of it as well.

Know what I did with that cash? EVERY SINGLE CENT was throw into a homeless foundation in my mothers name. 8 grand! GONE Then I worked in a Kitchen for minimum wage, living in a tent so I could save up money and help provide and visit my first Son. You cowards know nothing of sacrifice, and you worship/chase money just like everyone else…just like this women who Im supposed to marry this January, not a single person here is willing to actually fall back and let the Lord catch you. And in doing so you have all been given a prison sentenced. You might feel like you have financial security but 1 dose of reality can wipe it all away! A health diagnosis, a divorce, a crash in the economy**. I know how to survive with little, with little support, how to feed myself with healthy food and pay my bills. **However each of you guys are chained inside a mental prison.

The saints are smiling on me imperials! Can you say the same?

It’s not just your behaviour, it’s your attitude.

You might know how to look after yourself, but you can’t seem to buckle down and look after your kids. You keep on going on about you mother issues, perhaps you should think about how your unstable life is affecting your kids?

You can say what you like about people being cowards or whatever, but I think Xantippe is right, you either have a major problem admitting when you’re wrong and taking responsibility or you have some sort of mental illness.

Whatever it is you need help.