What's a Protestant? Let's Level Set.

[Conor7]

It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

Yet, this categorization becomes very sticky, especially when many of the threads are titled, “Protestants, Why Do You Believe _____?” And, I think, “which Protestants are you asking? I certainly don’t believe that.”

I’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from Wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “Protestant?”

For me, if you write “Protestant,” and mean Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists, then OK, I’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

But if you write “Protestant” and mean Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist, then I take issue. I don’t have much in common with those folks and couldn’t speak on their behalf, nor would I want them to speak on mine.

What are your thoughts? I’d like to hear from Catholics and non-Catholics (see what I did there?) alike.

 

[Della]

I hear ya. Whenever someone uses the word Protestant, lumping all non-Catholic Christians together, I cringe too. I was brought up Episcopalian which was very different from the Assemblies of God we started going to when I was a young teen. The two eccelisial bodies could not be more different in worship style, as well as in some beliefs.

I think a lot of our Catholic converts came from Evangelical backgrounds and so don’t take into consideration that there are several liturgical Protestant denominations.

It’s annoying to be lumped together like that, I know. Each time I see someone do that I try to gently correct them. They don’t mean to offend, rather it’s more that they are coming from their own life experience and simply don’t realize they are putting all non-Catholic Christians together into one category.

 

[GKC]

It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

Yet, this categorization becomes very sticky, especially when many of the threads are titled, “Protestants, Why Do You Believe _____?” And, I think, “which Protestants are you asking? I certainly don’t believe that.”

I’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from Wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “Protestant?”

For me, if you write “Protestant,” and mean Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists, then OK, I’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

But if you write “Protestant” and mean Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist, then I take issue. I don’t have much in common with those folks and couldn’t speak on their behalf, nor would I want them to speak on mine.

What are your thoughts? I’d like to hear from Catholics and non-Catholics (see what I did there?) alike.

When someone uses “protestant”, I assume it’s not addressed to me and ignore it.

Idiosyncrasy, to be sure.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus

 

[Conor7]

It’s like you know me Della!

 

[Della]

It’s like you know me Della!

Well, I was involved in both liturgical and Evangelical church groups–some pretty far out there–when I was a young woman, so I know the differences, that’s all. There’s not really two sides, there’s several sides people are coming from. We simply can’t assume they’re all the same as we’ve experienced.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

It depends on context. In the whole scheme of things, it makes little difference to us which set of dogmas and sacraments one denies. Chesterton talks about this in his essay, Upon This Rock. If we are talking about a particular belief, practice, attitude, or trend, you’re right, it would be helpful to be more specific. I have learned to indicate at least “high” or “low,” but I suppose that even if I am careful enough to say, “Southern Baptists generally believe X” I will be stepping on someone’s toes.

 

[Conor7]

It depends on context. In the whole scheme of things, it makes little difference to us which set of dogmas and sacraments one denies. Chesterton talks about this in his essay, Upon This Rock. If we are talking about a particular belief, practice, attitude, or trend, you’re right, it would be helpful to be more specific. I have learned to indicate at least “high” or “low,” but I suppose that even if I am careful enough to say, “Southern Baptists generally believe X” I will be stepping on someone’s toes.

I don’t know that one has to be worried about stepping on someone’s toes, it’s more of an appeal to address your intended audience specifically. And, if you’re ignorant of a particular tradition, or don’t know who to address, then admit that.

 

[Ad_Orientem]

I see. That sounds reasonable enough.

 

[pablope]

It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

For me, if you write “Protestant,” and mean Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists, then OK, I’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

 

[GKC]

It depends on context. In the whole scheme of things, it makes little difference to us which set of dogmas and sacraments one denies. Chesterton talks about this in his essay, Upon This Rock. If we are talking about a particular belief, practice, attitude, or trend, you’re right, it would be helpful to be more specific. I have learned to indicate at least “high” or “low,” but I suppose that even if I am careful enough to say, “Southern Baptists generally believe X” I will be stepping on someone’s toes.

Lots of motley crews out there. Always good to be careful in assumptions.

GKC

 

[SteveVH]

It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

Yet, this categorization becomes very sticky, especially when many of the threads are titled, “Protestants, Why Do You Believe _____?” And, I think, “which Protestants are you asking? I certainly don’t believe that.”

I’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from Wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “Protestant?”

For me, if you write “Protestant,” and mean Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists, then OK, I’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

But if you write “Protestant” and mean Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist, then I take issue. I don’t have much in common with those folks and couldn’t speak on their behalf, nor would I want them to speak on mine.

What are your thoughts? I’d like to hear from Catholics and non-Catholics (see what I did there?) alike.

If there is one thing I have learned here at CAF it is never to generalize using the word “Protestant”, except in limited circumstances. I find myself correcting many Catholics who begin their sentence with: “Well the Protestants believe…” I have to admit that I was in that camp before coming here. Its just ignorance, not malice.

 

[JonNC]

When someone uses “protestant”, I assume it’s not addressed to me and ignore it.

Idiosyncrasy, to be sure.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus

And well you should, since Anglicans were not at the Second Diet at Speyer.

Jon

 

[TimothyH]

It seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either Protestant or Catholic (OK, one could be Orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

Yet, this categorization becomes very sticky, especially when many of the threads are titled, “Protestants, Why Do You Believe _____?” And, I think, “which Protestants are you asking? I certainly don’t believe that.”

I’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from Wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “Protestant?”

For me, if you write “Protestant,” and mean Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists, then OK, I’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

But if you write “Protestant” and mean Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist, then I take issue. I don’t have much in common with those folks and couldn’t speak on their behalf, nor would I want them to speak on mine.

What are your thoughts? I’d like to hear from Catholics and non-Catholics (see what I did there?) alike.

The Evangelicals I know here in the south feel the same way. They would just as soon be Catholic as they would Episcopalian or Lutheran. At the risk of oversimplification, these see the mainline Protestant Churches as an artificial insertion of a man-made institution into what is essentially an individual believer’s personal relationship with Christ.

I avoid placing labels on non-Catholics to the extent that I can. Most Evangelicals I know don’t consider themselves Protestant. Christian is a fine enough label in their eyes.

-Tim-

 

[Conor7]

Well, let me ask you…which gave birth to these “Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist,”…wasn’t it the protestant movement that gave birth to the “Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists,”?

 

[jericho777]

Well, let me ask you…which gave birth to these “Non-denominational, Pentecostal, Evangelical, Charismatic and Fundamentalist,”…wasn’t it the protestant movement that gave birth to the “Episcopalians, Lutherans, Presbyterians and Methodists,”?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Whatever it may be to someone else, here is how I see it. It has to do with origins and background beliefs.

A “Protestant” is one who accepts some portion of what the Catholic Church has taught from the beginning of Christianity, but formally rejects (“protests against”) some part or parts of it. With some, it’s a fairly small part (like the SSPV, which I consider “protestant”, or the Anglicans who consider themselves Anglo-Catholics). With some, it’s a lot. Usually the latter are the ones with almost no doctrine of their own but in actuality believe a lot of things the Church teaches, more or less by “osmosis” from the western Christian cultural background. Southern Baptists are like that. Their doctrinal statement is virtually a one-liner, but individual Baptists believe a lot of things without having any clear idea where they got them.

So, to my way of thinking, a “Protestant” is anyone who accepts any basic part of what the Church teaches, but rejects other parts. One who says “I’m Protestant” is saying, in effect, “I am a Christian who holds some of the ancient tenets, but rejects some. To know more, you must inquire.”

Some of the non-denominationals don’t like to use the word “Protestant” and deny that they are. But that’s because they claim their sects are not “derivative” from previous ones when, in fact, they are.

So, then, are dissident Catholics “Protestants”. Since the CC considers that one is a Catholic no matter whether he falls into error or not, they may be considered 'de facto" Protestants, but not “de jure” Protestants.

 

[Della]

pablope;10574515:

Your point is not lost on me, but it’s like saying Lutherans were “beget of” Catholics and so are therefore Catholics. You would say “No they are not Catholics; they reject key doctrine.” And I would agree with that, in the same way I would ask you to not lump Pentecostals et al. with traditional mainline Protestants because some reject the Trinity and are modalists, to give one example.

Perhaps, a little off topic, but I’ll mention this for conversation’s sake. There is currently a thread on here asking if Protestants are bothered by the fact that there are so many denominations. The problem I have with this question (or this definition of Protestsntism) is if, for example, a Catholic Parish decides to break with Rome for whatever reason, they’re suddenly Protestant and become lumped in with all of us while Catholicism remains a tidy little package. Point being, I’m against this one or the other mentality.

The only problem with your explanation is that one is either a Catholic in union with Rome or one is not. It’s like being pregnant, either one is or isn’t. Or being alive or dead. There is such a thing as one or the other in a great many areas of life.

 

[loozcannon]

I’m a recent convert, and when I was going through RCIA, this very issue was brought up. Essentially, (exempting the other apostolic churches) if you aren’t Catholic, you’re “Protestant.”

My parish used the term “separated brethren.” that sounds more friendly I think, and doesn’t have the connotations that “protestant” brings to mind.

 

[cheezey]

it seems in this forum one is often categorized into one of two factions. One is either protestant or catholic (ok, one could be orthodox, but let’s leave them aside for a moment.)

yet, this categorization becomes very sticky, especially when many of the threads are titled, “protestants, why do you believe _____?” and, i think, “which protestants are you asking? I certainly don’t believe that.”

i’m trying to avoid countless regurgitations from wikipedia’s entry, so tell me how you are using the word “protestant?”

for me, if you write “protestant,” and mean episcopalians, lutherans, presbyterians and methodists, then ok, i’m fine with that. We have similar beliefs and one could lump us together for discussion’s sake.

But if you write “protestant” and mean non-denominational, pentecostal, evangelical, charismatic and fundamentalist, then i take issue. I don’t have much in common with those folks and couldn’t speak on their behalf, nor would i want them to speak on mine.

What are your thoughts? I’d like to hear from catholics and non-catholics (see what i did there?) alike.

[sign]thank you for this thread!!!
[/sign]

 

[Conor7]

pablope:

The only problem with your explanation is that one is either a Catholic in union with Rome or one is not. It’s like being pregnant, either one is or isn’t. Or being alive or dead. There is such a thing as one or the other in a great many areas of life.

All sparrows are birds. All penguins are birds. Therefore, all penguins are sparrows.