What's an ethical alternative to abortion for women who can't afford health care?

[roseproject]

I’ve heard the argument for “abortion to save the life of the mother” which is never ethical as it is a direct intention to kill the baby. To treat the mother for the underlying problem while unintentionally ending the life of the fetus would not be the same thing.

One other argument I hear often is that not everyone can afford health care and therefore go the organizations like Planned Parenthood for free (or for a very low cost at least). What can one do in this situation (especially if being pregnant can potentially harm the mother)?

Thanks in advance

 

[johnnyc176]

One other argument I hear often is that not everyone can afford health care and therefore go the organizations like Planned Parenthood for free (or for a very low cost at least). What can one do in this situation (especially if being pregnant can potentially harm the mother)?

Thanks in advance

Here is one example from the state of New Hampshire. There are also crisis pregnancy centers.

patheos.com/blogs/simchafisher/2015/08/05/but-what-will-poor-people-do-if-planned-parenthood-is-defunded/

I should know, having been a poor woman in New Hampshire for the last forty years, give or take a few sojourns north and south. I have always gotten free, excellent prenatal care and postpartum care, free pap smears, free breast exams, free STD testing, and — well, I’ve been offered free birth control, if by “offered” you mean bombarded with non-stop, wall-to-wall, relentless harangues about how important it is for me to get my free birth control now now now. Even when I told them I didn’t want it, they put a bag of condoms in my suitcase at the hospital anyway.

I have gotten all of these things for free. And I have never set foot in a Planned Parenthood.

 

[Mumbles140]

I’ve heard the argument for “abortion to save the life of the mother” which is never ethical as it is a direct intention to kill the baby. To treat the mother for the underlying problem while unintentionally ending the life of the fetus would not be the same thing.

One other argument I hear often is that not everyone can afford health care and therefore go the organizations like Planned Parenthood for free (or for a very low cost at least). What can one do in this situation (especially if being pregnant can potentially harm the mother)?

Thanks in advance

Adoption is the best scenario, and there are PLENTY of pregnancy assistance programs to help low-income women. Not to mention that Obamacare should make sure there are no people without adequate, affordable insurance, so if this is in the US, I am not sure that argument holds much water (at least while the ACA stands).

Not sure if this is for the Universal Church or just in the US, but the Gabriel Project helps pregnant women in need.

 

[Regina7]

I am the director of a crisis pregnancy center, and we will help any woman choose life. If the woman needs financial help, we will get it for her.

 

[Theo520]

I’ve heard the argument for “abortion to save the life of the mother” which is never ethical as it is a direct intention to kill the baby. To treat the mother for the underlying problem while unintentionally ending the life of the fetus would not be the same thing.

One other argument I hear often is that not everyone can afford health care and therefore go the organizations like Planned Parenthood for free (or for a very low cost at least). What can one do in this situation (especially if being pregnant can potentially harm the mother)?

Thanks in advance

Saving the life of the mother is a strawman argument, our medicine doesn’t require such a decision. Giving birth is safer than driving a car, and that includes any death that can be traced back to giving birth, including complications long after the event. You have a greater chance of dying from accidental poisoning than a mother does from giving birth

Maybe they are not as poor as you portray, they are able to pay $500 to $1,000 out of their own pockets for the abortion (it’s not free). Abortions are very lucrative for the willing doctors and clinics.

If you have a sincere question on the poor part, flesh it out and don’t mix in non related topics, like death of the mother.

 

[Myst]

Adoption medical costs are often less than abortion costs. The only reason my brother is alive is because his mom was broke and couldn’t afford an abortion.

 

[Viki63]

One other argument I hear often is that not everyone can afford health care and therefore go the organizations like Planned Parenthood for free (or for a very low cost at least).

I don’t quite understand your question. Are you saying that women who can’t afford the medical costs of giving birth must go to PP for an abortion instead?

This is not true. PP doesn’t provide any health care to speak of, except for sometimes treatment for STDs or contraception. They don’t provide general health care.
They charge for their abortions, several hundred dollars.
On the other hand, there are many programs to help pregnant women give birth. Here is a link to some.

No woman needs to have an abortion because she can’t afford health care for her child or herself.

.

 

[francisca]

I am the director of a crisis pregnancy center, and we will help any woman choose life. If the woman needs financial help, we will get it for her.

That’s great. That’s pro-life.

Exactly why abortion need to be legal.

You can’t help the women (for pro-life alternatives) if they go to non-legal means for abortion.

In my area there was no such legal clinic abortion. A friend of mine rent a room near the campus. There was a new girl in the other room next to her, she didn’t come out from the room so my friend checked what happened. Turned out she was bleeding after abortion in an illegal place (not even a clinic), and she refused to contact any of her family/relative/friends. I drove her to the hospital that night, and she had to be admitted so she finally agreed to contact her relative. Her family came to the house and packed her belongings after she checked in to the hospital and we never heard of them anymore.

 

[Theo520]

Yes, the women pay between $500-$2,000 for an abortion, depending upon the location and how far along she is. This is all out of pocket. The cost would probably be higher if PP didn’t get the Govt subsidies to pay for their advertising and overhead costs.

I don’t quite understand your question. Are you saying that women who can’t afford the medical costs of giving birth must go to PP for an abortion instead?

This is not true. PP doesn’t provide any health care to speak of, except for sometimes treatment for STDs or contraception. They don’t provide general health care.
They charge for their abortions, several hundred dollars.
On the other hand, there are many programs to help pregnant women give birth. Here is a link to some.

No woman needs to have an abortion because she can’t afford health care for her child or herself.

.

 

[Kelfa28]

In a state like mine, and I’m sure many others, if you are pregnant then you are automatically qualified for health insurance.

Plus, there are so many ways you can qualify for help.

When I had my middle baby, my husband was unemployed and we had a gap in insurance for the new baby.

We got a huge bill we couldn’t afford so I called the hospital for help.
We were told we’d most likely qualify for charity help and we were. The bill was taken care of without issue.

 

[vz71]

That’s great. That’s pro-life.

Exactly why abortion need to legal.

 

[Regina7]

That’s great. That’s pro-life.

Exactly why abortion need to be legal.

You can’t help the women (for pro-life alternatives) if they go to non-legal means for abortion.

In my area there was no such legal clinic abortion. A friend of mine rent a room near the campus. There was a new girl in the other room next to her, she didn’t come out from the room so my friend checked what happened. Turned out she was bleeding after abortion in an illegal place (not even a clinic), and she refused to contact any of her family/relative/friends. I drove her to the hospital that night, and she had to be admitted so she finally agreed to contact her relative. Her family came to the house and packed her belongings after she checked in to the hospital and we never heard of them anymore.

Uh, what? You don’t think women have died in legal clinics? Not to mention every single baby?

 

[Elizium23]

Exactly why abortion need to be legal.

Let me ask you then, have you viewed all of the videos released by the Center for Medical Progress? You are one of the people who absolutely must see Planned Parenthood for what it is.

I hope you are also aware of the Kermit Gosnell case. He operated a perfectly legal abortion clinic while doing horrific illegal things under its guise. His horrors were actually discovered during a drug-enforcement raid, and he was convicted on seven counts of first-degree murder and manslaughter.

I would also ask that you educate yourself on the background, life, and history of Margaret Sanger. She had particularly odious racist and eugenicist tendencies, and as the founder of Planned Parenthood, she is lionized and idolized and memorialized by their notorious “Margaret Sanger Award”.

I don’t see how anyone who bothers to peek under the curtain and into the disgusting underbelly of Planned Parenthood and similar organizations can support abortion in good conscience.

 

[francisca]

Let me ask you then, have you viewed all of the videos released by the Center for Medical Progress? You are one of the people who absolutely must see Planned Parenthood for what it is.

I hope you are also aware of the Kermit Gosnell case. He operated a perfectly legal abortion clinic while doing horrific illegal things under its guise. His horrors were actually discovered during a drug-enforcement raid, and he was convicted on seven counts of first-degree murder and manslaughter.

I would also ask that you educate yourself on the background, life, and history of Margaret Sanger. She had particularly odious racist and eugenicist tendencies, and as the founder of Planned Parenthood, she is lionized and idolized and memorialized by their notorious “Margaret Sanger Award”.

I don’t see how anyone who bothers to peek under the curtain and into the disgusting underbelly of Planned Parenthood and similar organizations can support abortion in good conscience.

Kermit Gosnell conducted a malpractice. Imagine if abortion is illegal, there will be many of Kermit Gosnells and nobody will be able to check them out.

If abortion is illegal, fetus organ business (like PP scandal) will continue and nobody will tell.

 

[francisca]

I am pro-life.

I think abortion cannot be stopped by illegalizing it. Hence legalizing/ illegalizing abortion has nothing to do with pro-life/ pro-choice, because abortion continue to happen regardless legality.

I think the good way to handle abortion is:

1. by making it compulsory for the clinics to refer all cases to “pregnancy crisis center” (example) where women are given information about all other options other than abortion.
2. by making it compulsory for the clinics to show the picture of the fetus and its heart beat to the patient to make them understand that fetus is a living human beings
3. by making it compulsory for the woman to have an adult female-buddy (if not parents) to go through all the process if she’s under age
4. by making it compulsory to delay the abortion for a few days to give the woman to re-think of her final decision
5. by refering them to a spiritual person according to their religion if so they wish to be prayed over or for spiritual consultation
6. Only after she has gone through all the process, then she can be refer back to the clinic for abortion if she doesn’t change her mind.

In this way, there is possibility to save the woman and the fetus. All these can be done only if abortion is legal.

There is disagreements to legalize something immoral, I am aware of this problem. I still insist that the need to reaching out to the woman and the fetus supercede all “theoretical discussion regarding morality/ immorality of abortion”.

In my opinion, we have no choice but to legalize abortion, because there are other immoral things being legalize such as porn business. Porn promote adulterous behavior give rise to the number of unwanted pregnancy. Legalizing porn is like legalizing “cigarette commercial” which give a consequence in which it becomes injustice to “illegaiizing cigarettes” (abortion) while at the same time allowing/ legalize “its commercial” (porn). Therefore victim of such “commercials” may not know what they do when they act-out and “buying the cigarretes and smoke them”-- becomes my argument why illegalizing abortion apart from illegalizing porn is to jeopardize justice principle.

My main argument is still “the need to reach-out and save the woman and the fetus” supercede all.

 

[Regina7]

I am pro-life.

I think abortion cannot be stopped by illegalizing it. Hence legalizing/ illegalizing abortion has nothing to do with pro-life/ pro-choice, because abortion continue to happen regardless legality.

I think the good way to handle abortion is:

1. by making it compulsory for the clinics to refer all cases to “pregnancy crisis center” (example) where women are given information about all other options other than abortion.
2. by making it compulsory for the clinics to show the picture of the fetus and its heart beat to the patient to make them understand that fetus is a living human beings
3. by making it compulsory for the woman to have an adult female-buddy (if not parents) to go through all the process if she’s under age
4. by making it compulsory to delay the abortion for a few days to give the woman to re-think of her final decision
5. by refering them to a spiritual person according to their religion if so they wish to be prayed over or for spiritual consultation
6. Only after she has gone through all the process, then she can be refer back to the clinic for abortion if she doesn’t change her mind.

In this way, there is possibility to save the woman and the fetus. All these can be done only if abortion is legal.

There is disagreements to legalize something immoral, I am aware of this problem. I still insist that the need to reaching out to the woman and the fetus supercede all “theoretical discussion regarding morality/ immorality of abortion”.

In my opinion, we have no choice but to legalize abortion, because there are other immoral things being legalize such as porn business. Porn promote adulterous behavior give rise to the number of unwanted pregnancy. Legalizing porn is like legalizing “cigarette commercial” which give a consequence in which it becomes injustice to “illegaiizing cigarettes” (abortion) while at the same time allowing/ legalize “its commercial” (porn). Therefore victim of such “commercials” may not know what they do when they act-out and “buying the cigarretes and smoke them”-- becomes my main argument why illegalizing abortion apart from illegalizing porn is to jeopardize justice principle.

You confuse me. You say you are prolife, but previous posts of your indicate otherwise. And it seems like every time you talk about abortion, you talk about porn.

 

[francisca]

You confuse me. You say you are prolife, but previous posts of your indicate otherwise. And it seems like every time you talk about abortion, you talk about porn.

Previous post I mentioned that it is beneficial to legalize abortion.
As I had mentioned, legality of abortion has nothing to do with pro-life works, because illegalizing abortion won’t stop abortion from happening.

Porn is a form of mis-information about sex and it’s ethical-practice/ conduct (so to speak), therefore, when people being exposed to wrong information and then they decide to do something because of such information, it can be argued that these people can’t be punished for what they do simply because they have been exposed to a campaign of a certain information so they do what they do.

Porn is a tool of promoting adultery, and give rise to unwanted pregnancy therefore abortion. When you legalize the tool, you can’t illegalize the result.

 

[Elizium23]

Okay, let’s stipulate that we want abortion to stay legal. Now how do you propose we, as pro-lifers, convince everyone not to have one anyway? And do us a favor, don’t bring up porn in your answer.

 

[Theo520]

Previous post I mentioned that it is beneficial to legalize abortion.
As I had mentioned, legality of abortion has nothing to do with pro-life works, because illegalizing abortion won’t stop abortion from happening.

It’s ridiculous to say there is no connection, though I agree making it illegal won’t put a complete stop to it.

Okay, let’s stipulate that we want abortion to stay legal. Now how do you propose we, as pro-lifers, convince everyone not to have one anyway? And do us a favor, don’t bring up porn in your answer.

Read her post again. She gave six logical points that would reduce abortions vs our current anything goes mentality.

 

[francisca]

Okay, let’s stipulate that we want abortion to stay legal. Now how do you propose we, as pro-lifers, convince everyone not to have one anyway?

Please re-read my post #15

“to convince everyone” is not the same as “to coerce”

If we believe in freedom as taught by Jesus (remember we’ve been set free from slavery, we are the children of Sarah, the free woman, not Hagar, the slave woman. Galatians 4:21-31), then we should trust women to make their personal choice, and not to enforce a rule that will get all women into compulsory child bearing even if she doesn’t want the child. To raise a good generation you need women who are capable of loving their children.

No women want to go under the knife cutting their fetus if they do not have significant reason to do so.

Abortion is not fun. No women want to do it for fun.

And do us a favor, don’t bring up porn in your answer.

Why not?

Porn is very closely related to nowadays permissive culture.

We can’t use double standard. If you think men can be forgiven for not being saintly, then you should be able to forgive women for the same reason. If you demand women to be saintly, then you should demand men & women to be saintly.

The fact that God’s law can’t be observed is not because abortion is legal. It’s because porn is allowed to campaign agressively against God’s law.

Pregnancy and raising childern is a heavy task. My great grandma had 14 children. Her stomach bled she vomited blood simply because she got pregnant too often (her digestive system couldn’t keep up with her frequent pregnancy). Her doctor at the time told her, if she get pregnant again, she would simply die. The idea of “family planning” was not there at the time. Women were/ still are constantly under pressure to please the culture of men. I think the fact that abortion is legal is a positive direction of our culture, not a losing point. Abortion happens regardless legality, as long as we put too much pressure on women to do so.

Legality of abortion is an indication that the culture acknowledge problem within the sexual culture, and women’s needs being acknowledged (finaly) and her health taken into account. Women’s well being finally is seen as something matters, and not only her children health matters.

Love has to come out from freewill. Coercion can’t produce love. You can’t coerce love. If women are put in difficult culture that get them making mistakes, and she has to raise the child while impoverished in terms of love and freedom, we’ll be making generation born of slave women (Hagar’s children, not Sarah’s). Porn itself is a slavery. Porn wills enslavery of humans.

So now, what do we expect when we legalize one immorality (porn) that has changed our culture, do we think we can erradicate such culture simply by illegalizing another immorallity (abortion) to smuge the trace of immorality within our culture?

I would say, pro-life movement should include campaign against porn and adultery too.

Being pro-life means “sex within faithful relationship”. Being pro-life is a personal choice in real life.