That is always the boogie man argument so we have legal abortions killing 3,000 babies a day. Oh they will be killed in back allies so we will kill them on main street. No body was telling us about fetal organ business until these videos were released.
How can you be neutral in defunding PP?
Well, if PP provide other services for women’s health (non-abortion services), then I want this to be able to continue. I read that abortion is a small portion of what they do.
Planned Parenthood does not offer any prenatal care multitude of government and private charities that will take care of pregnant women for little or no cost . If they’re concerned about the cost of raising a child there waiting list to adopt newborn babies . In fact most couples who want to adopt will pay the total cost of the prenatal care medical cost of the delivery for the birthmother . There simply is no finyancial reason whatsoever (other than for Planned Parenthood) for a mother to kill her childI’ve heard the argument for “abortion to save the life of the mother” which is never ethical as it is a direct intention to kill the baby. To treat the mother for the underlying problem while unintentionally ending the life of the fetus would not be the same thing.
One other argument I hear often is that not everyone can afford health care and therefore go the organizations like Planned Parenthood for free (or for a very low cost at least). What can one do in this situation (especially if being pregnant can potentially harm the mother)?
Thanks in advance
You may want to look at this, Francisca.
I see. Ok, I acknowledge this fact. About defunding: I’m ok with it, no problem.
This would be impossible to implement, especially at this stage in our society. Prolife supporters can barely get a hearing, much less force abortion clinics to refer cases to prolife clinics.
The problem with your argument is that you assume the number of “back-ally” abortions will be high. See this post and look specifically at the back-ally myth. There are numerous other sources that also support this.I see. Ok, I acknowledge this fact. About defunding: I’m ok with it, no problem.
In my opinion, PP scandal represent The TRUE FACE of Permissive Culture, regardless legality. Abortion is the inevitable outcome of such culture.
So, from my previous post:
I propose to illegalize abortion on case by case bases: based on unethical practices by the clinics, instead of making the whole abortion illegal.
Any comment on this?
I mentioned in previous posts, Pro-life movement can propose to draft a law that makes it compulsory for abortion clinics to refer all cases to institutions that provides “pro-life options/ alternative”, before they’re allowed to conduct the abortion. If this is not done (case by case, patient per patient), they (the clinics) will be penalize or even charge the personnels in charge.
In your opinion, will this law be useful, or it will have difficulty/downfall to implement such a law?
Another example of unethical practices: fetus-organ selling. Penalize, criminalize the personnel in charge, defund, whatever it takes, based on unethical-practices.
In my opinion, the benefits of such a law:
On the contrary, if we illegalize abortion completely,
- By looking into case by case ethical/unethical practices, abortion clinics are constantly under watch&control.
- The law that makes it compulsory for abortion clinics to refer all cases to pro-life alternatives before surgery will decrease the number of abortion.
- We have statistics. We can use their statistics to do social researches example “the relation between the number of porn-exposure to the number of abortion in an area”, or qualitative researches on patients: what are the main reasons for abortions, and so on.
3a. Collaboration with universities to do social-researches surrounding abortion. This studies not available in the area where abortion is illegal.- Possibility of social improvement through effective communication to the public based on data and researches.
Real life example on point number 10:
- Abortion will be out of sight, no regulation, no control, no statistic, no data, no researches, no social-improvement whatsoever.
- It won’t stop.
- A safe haven for those who take advantage of womens’ crisis situations, ex: fetus organ selling.
- It is a mirage to think that illegalizing abortion will decrease the number of abortion. There is no data whatsoever to prove this.
- Very plausible that in the past we have less abortion, because we have less porn (less permissive culture), not due to the fact that it was illegal.
- Very plausible that legality of abortion has nothing to do with the number, because abortion is a desperate measure women take. When a woman is desperate, she will do anything. Therefore, legal/illegal won’t matter much.
I know first hand a case my own friend opened up to me. She said “It’s either my life, or this fetus life”. She couldn’t find any doctor willing to do it. So she used her own way to do it, risking her own life. In fact, the method she used was taught by her boyfriend who found out from his male friends whose girlfriends’ had used such methods before!!! She simply refused to listen to me. I was young and inexperienced as well, so I couldn’t suggest adoption or anything like that. It was so traumatic for me to know what she did.
In places where abortion is illegal, you hear stories. You will only hear these stories if someone feel very safe to open up to you (trust you completely). Otherwise, you wont hear anything (not even if you are her parents or friends!).
Illegalizing abortion creates new problems which nobody see. On the surface it looks like “immorality disappear”. It only covers our eyes from the reality of it.
“Back-alleys” doesn’t always refer to illegal clinics. In my previous post, I gave you a real life example. The method this woman used (I should not go into specifics here, because its not my purpose to teach a method that should not be used) was not involving any surgery. She took a substance that endangered her own life in order to abort the fetus. If she were to die that day, it would have looked like she had commited suicide. I doubt that such death would be recorded as abortion attempt. She would have been counted among the 50,000 deaths related to child bearing at the most (suicide while pregnant, depression while pregnant), or if not, it would be reported as suicide with no relation to her pregnancy noted. It wouldn’t be reported as “death cause: abortion attempt”, eventhough it was. And to stress the fact that she knew this method from her own boyfriend, who got it from other male friends, whose girlfriends had used it before, shows the widely used of the method.
The above conclusion actually support my argument that legal or illegality doesn’t matter that much.
If we try to push pro-life so called “agenda” from our religious perspective, people who are not believers, they will think we are trying to enforce control using our religion.
Roe and Wade can be refined further by drafting medical practice law that regulate abortion clinics in which an abortion becomes illegal based on illegal practices. We do have other sets of law against illegal medical practices.
Based on medical ethics, an elective surgery such as plastic surgery should not be performed if it endanger the patient’s life. In comparison, abortion as surgery should have a limit to the pregnancy-age in order to limit the risk for the patient. IOW, a law can be drafted against abortion to certain pregnancy-age-limit, according to which an abortion will be deemed illegal if exeed the age limit set by the law.
Abortion always endangers a life! Are you out of your mind? I, for one, am tired of hearing the “safe, legal and rare” mantra about abortion. You don’t want it to be safe or rare. All you want is it to be legal. And promoted, and mandated where possible. Abortion is a demonic, eugenicist plot to obliterate parts of the human race, and it’s succeeding.
WE are not risking women’s life. A woman who decides to abort her baby is doing that herself, and this is true whether she does it in her own house or a legal clinic. I know of women who’ve had homemade abortions because they didn’t have the hundreds or thousands of dollars that PP charges for an abortion. So should we sell homemade abortion kits so that woman has a more sterile/healthier way to kill her child?
Well said.
Archbishop Chaput addresses this better than I ever could:
Roe vs Wade ruling is about protecting women, so they won’t be criminalized.
If you seriously think that Roe V. Wade is about protecting women, then I don’t think this conversation will ever go anywhere.