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TheCuriousCat
Guest
Well, that’s clear as mud. Perhaps you could use a more straight forward approach?
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What's the meaning of life, even with God, any God, wouldn't it still be meaningless?
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STT
Guest
I think that life should be meaningful if God created us otherwise life even in Heaven will turn into Hell when your feeling cannot attach you to others anymore and you are desperately looking for meaning. It would be like a big prison and it is like a prison right now. We don’t even know why we are here when God is in Heaven?If the point of existence is to connect to God and for this reason God created the world, then what makes this really a meaningful reason or point, it would still be a pointless thing to connect to a creator, an absurd thing, don’t you think? That if you were never born you wouldn’t need such a concern to begin with, is there really a point in the purpose of conneting to a creator that he made the world with all the awful things going on just for that purpose, that still wouldn’t make life meaningful, it would be a selfish creation, like a father creating a child not for the sake of the child who didn’t ask to be born but for the sake of filling his own ego and selfishness of parenthood.
The fact is, that life has no meaning, with or without gods, it would still be the same, humans make different meanings to their lives, to still go on, many distractions till we die, most often these distractions are convictions that are sincere and honest, sometimes true and real but the meaning of life itself is a personal and relative thing.
So when someone asks what is the meaning of life, it is an irrelevant question, it is like asking what color is the sea, it may look blue because that’s the personal human perception of it when in fact it has no color.
And if the point of life was a connection to a creator, then how is that even meaningful and not absurd?
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PRmerger
Guest
Depression is better cured by truth, not by embracing whatever it is that seems satisfactory.This genuinely made me smile. I have been depressed for literally decades and what finally pulled me out of it was embracing nihilism.
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PRmerger
Guest
I don’t see how “life is a prep for what comes next” is depressing, at all.That sounds depressing as depressing can be. Life is just prep for what comes next? Yuck. But, hey, if it makes you happy, great.
Any more than telling an unborn baby in the womb: get ready, there’s a fabulous world outside the womb just waiting for you to enjoy…would be depressing news to the unborn child.
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TheCuriousCat
Guest
Funny, I couldn’t agree more.Depression is better cured by truth, not by embracing whatever it is that seems satisfactory.
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PRmerger
Guest
I don’t think you’ve thought your response out very well, CC.Funny, I couldn’t agree more.
Either you should retract the above, or retract this:
Which one are you choosing to retract?If being Christian makes you happy, that’s awesome.
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TheCuriousCat
Guest
I think the truth is the best, and it’s the one I intend to follow. I think the other one is fine, if that is the one that people choose. Obviously, we disagree about which is true.I don’t think you’ve thought your response out very well, CC.
Either you should retract the above, or retract this:
Which one are you choosing to retract?
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steve_b
Guest
Using a faith and reason argumentIf the point of existence is to connect to God and for this reason God created the world, then what makes this really a meaningful reason or point, it would still be a pointless thing to connect to a creator, an absurd thing, don’t you think? That if you were never born you wouldn’t need such a concern to begin with, is there really a point in the purpose of conneting to a creator that he made the world with all the awful things going on just for that purpose, that still wouldn’t make life meaningful, it would be a selfish creation, like a father creating a child not for the sake of the child who didn’t ask to be born but for the sake of filling his own ego and selfishness of parenthood.
The fact is, that life has no meaning, with or without gods, it would still be the same, humans make different meanings to their lives, to still go on, many distractions till we die, most often these distractions are convictions that are sincere and honest, sometimes true and real but the meaning of life itself is a personal and relative thing.
So when someone asks what is the meaning of life, it is an irrelevant question, it is like asking what color is the sea, it may look blue because that’s the personal human perception of it when in fact it has no color.
And if the point of life was a connection to a creator, then how is that even meaningful and not absurd?
Here’s an example. (thinking in different terms)
I’ve heard people use as a rebuttal, if only Jesus was here in the flesh, He could convince ANYONE.
He could do that BUT we know He won’t force ANYONE to believe against their own free will.
Example:
Jn 6.
Why did His own disciples leave Jesus saying who could listen to this and they left Him, not to follow Him anymore [Jn 6:66]
What did Jesus say?
He said He knew in advance those disciples didn’t believe from the beginning… But He gave them the teaching anyway knowing they were going to leave Him and not follow Him again… ( they couldn’t say in the end, they weren’t given a chance ) And one of the scariest passages in scripture IMV, Jesus didn’t go after them. He let them go. Meaning everything He taught them as a consequence if they didn’t follow what He prescribed, came down on them when they died.
Aquinas put it into the following words
“For one who has faith no explanation is necessary, to one without faith no explanation is sufficient.”
People will continue to argue ad nauseum. They won’t believe in Jesus, nor the apostles, nor Church Tradition, it’s just all made up nonsense. That’s why there is separation at the end of life between sheep and goats. The fight then is finally over forever.
Paraphrasing Paschal wager
At death, which all of us go through,
If the skeptic is right about this and I’m wrong about Jesus and Catholicism , then no big deal. No fault no foul. We’re dead. No consequences good or bad for anything we’ve done good or bad. We could be the worst person humanity has ever known or will know, or the best, we’re dead forever. Lights out.
If otoh, I’m right and the skeptic is wrong, the skeptic is screwed…forever. Since there is no clock in the after life, there is no notion of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years, eons, it’s just the eternal now. A trillion years from now is still now in eternity.
Since by virtue of our soul, given to us by God at our conception, we are immortal. We die in the body but our soul lives forever. Memory, intellect in tact forever in the transition to the next life. The question then is, … WHERE is forever going to be in the next life? Heaven or Hell.
Again, the skeptic will disagree with this wager as well. So we’ll see who’s right and who’s wrong now won’t we?
Thus the wager, the bet, the gamble, the roll of the dice?
Gotta tell the skeptic though, once dead they can’t pull back their wager if they find out they made a mistake.
If I made a mistake otoh, and there is no next life, No God, no heaven no hell, then who cares? It doesn’t matter. We’re dead forever.
Not so, however if the skeptic is wrong. Hence the wager
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Bradski
Guest
Do you believe Elvis is still alive? No? Then I’ll tell you what I’ll do.If I made a mistake otoh, and there is no next life, No God, no heaven no hell, then who cares? It doesn’t matter. We’re dead forever.
Not so, however if the skeptic is wrong. Hence the wager
If you act as if Elvis is alive, meet with people who believe he is still alive, send letters to Gracelands addressed to him and listen to all his records each day, then if it turns out he is still alive, I will sell my house and give you the proceeds.
Let’s face it, if you are wrong, what have you lost? But if you are right, then happy days!
That’s Bradski’s Wager. Are you up for it?
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steve_b
Guest
The soul of Elvis is alive right now. And will be alive for eternity. As your soul will be when you die. The soul is immortal. It won;t die. The body someday, will reunite with the soul. That will be either in hell or heaven.Do you believe Elvis is still alive? No? Then I’ll tell you what I’ll do.
If you act as if Elvis is alive, meet with people who believe he is still alive, send letters to Gracelands addressed to him and listen to all his records each day, then if it turns out he is still alive, I will sell my house and give you the proceeds.
Let’s face it, if you are wrong, what have you lost? But if you are right, then happy days!
That’s Bradski’s Wager. Are you up for it?
Whether one is in Hell or Heaven, is determined by one’s life here on this side of eternity, and Jesus judgement.
What you believe or don’t believe is your choice. At the end of one’s life here in this life, then one’s choices are made permanent.
All I will say, you know this already, choices have consequences.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Amen!The soul of Elvis is alive right now. And will be alive for eternity. As your soul will be when you die. The soul is immortal. It won;t die. The body someday, will reunite with the soul. That will be either in hell or heaven.
Whether one is in Hell or Heaven, is determined by one’s life here on this side of eternity, and Jesus judgement.
What you believe or don’t believe is your choice. At the end of one’s life here in this life, then one’s choices are made permanent.
All I will say, you know this already, choices have consequences.
C
CHRISTINE77
Guest
Life is meaningful, when you know you are part of God’s creation. You are the image of God and can do great things. Never forget it.I think that life should be meaningful if God created us otherwise life even in Heaven will turn into Hell when your feeling cannot attach you to others anymore and you are desperately looking for meaning. It would be like a big prison and it is like a prison right now. We don’t even know why we are here when God is in Heaven?
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Bradski
Guest
So I guess that’s a no…The soul of Elvis is alive right now. And will be alive for eternity. As your soul will be when you die. The soul is immortal. It won;t die. The body someday, will reunite with the soul. That will be either in hell or heaven.
Whether one is in Hell or Heaven, is determined by one’s life here on this side of eternity, and Jesus judgement.
What you believe or don’t believe is your choice. At the end of one’s life here in this life, then one’s choices are made permanent.
All I will say, you know this already, choices have consequences.
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PRmerger
Guest
Excellent.I think the truth is the best, and it’s the one I intend to follow.
Then you need to retract the idea that someone can believe what she wants, as long as it makes her happy.
You wouldn’t encourage your adult daughter to believe in Santa Claus*…even if that’s what makes her smile and be good.
So the retraction, I think, should come from this post:
Unless, of course, you mean to say that Christianity is true. Since you have agreed with me that truth matters.If being Christian makes you happy, that’s awesome.
*NB: We are talking about the jolly fat old elf who lives at the North Pole and delivers presents on Christmas eve to all the good little boys and girls.
NOT the bishop of Myra named St. Nicholas.
And NOT “the Santa who lives in the hearts and minds of all the parents who generously give to their children on Christmas eve”.
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TheCuriousCat
Guest
I honestly couldn’t give a flying hoot what you believe. You aren’t my daughter, and I am not responsible for you. I do care that what I believe is true.Excellent.
Then you need to retract the idea that someone can believe what she wants, as long as it makes her happy.
You wouldn’t encourage your adult daughter to believe in Santa Claus*…even if that’s what makes her smile and be good.
So the retraction, I think, should come from this post:
Unless, of course, you mean to say that Christianity is true. Since you have agreed with me that truth matters.
*NB: We are talking about the jolly fat old elf who lives at the North Pole and delivers presents on Christmas eve to all the good little boys and girls.
NOT the bishop of Myra named St. Nicholas.
And NOT “the Santa who lives in the hearts and minds of all the parents who generously give to their children on Christmas eve”.
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PRmerger
Guest
Nonsequitur, CC.I honestly couldn’t give a flying hoot what you believe. You aren’t my daughter, and I am not responsible for you. I do care that what I believe is true.
Point is: you should believe things because they are true. NOT because it makes you happy.
And that means you reject your original assertion:
QED.If being Christian makes you happy, that’s awesome.
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PRmerger
Guest
And when you follow the truth, you will be happy.I honestly couldn’t give a flying hoot what you believe. You aren’t my daughter, and I am not responsible for you. I do care that what I believe is true.
So…either Christianity is true, and Jesus Christ is indeed the 2nd person of the Trinity, or it’s false.
And that’s why you can’t post things like this:
while also saying,If being Christian makes you happy, that’s awesome.
You’re posting 2 contradictory memes.I think the truth is the best, and it’s the one I intend to follow.
Imagine if your daughter came home saying, “My teacher says that I should spell ATHEIST correctly.”
And then your daughter says, "My teacher also says that if I spell ATHEIST like this:
ATHIEST
that’s fine, as long as it makes me happy!"
You’d be on the phone with the teacher saying: pick one. Either tell my daughter she is responsible for correctly spelling words…OR tell her to think for herself and she can spell in any manner that makes her feel happy…BUT don’t tell her 2 contradictory things. That’s absurd.
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TheCuriousCat
Guest
Yes, that’s yourpoint. That isn’t my point.Nonsequitur, CC.
Point is: you should believe things because they are true. NOT because it makes you happy.
And that means you reject your original assertion:
QED.
As far as I am concerned, I couldn’t be happy believing a lie. I hate it when I find out that something I believed wasn’t true, and I am scrupulous about testing my beliefs about things. Other people are frightened and upset by the truth. I don’t particularly care what they believe as long as they aren’t harming themselves or others.
You do understand that there is a difference between me and other people, right? I seek out the truth no matter how inconvenient or embarrassing. Other people don’t. I’m fine with that.
You have this weird obsession with trying to convince me that I don’t believe what I believe. What is that about?
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